What problems would being a werewolf cause?

[Vagrant]

Well this has certainly been an interesting read, I loved every minute of it.

And Howlitzer, I can relate. I think the thing I hate most are aerosols, because of the ozone they kick up. There are those in my family who use differing forms of hair-lacquer, and whenever that happens, it's usually seconds before I'm away from my computer and at the nearest window, wondering if the concept of fresh air was but a parting dream.

Oddly enough, I'm not bothered by a great deal of smells, I've come to live with it. I can stick body odours, I'm not that bothered by wet canid, sweat I can smell from a mile off but that doesn't really make me gag, but any artificial smells... they drive me crazy. I keep my distance from scented candles, perfume, perfumed people, and anything of the sort. They tend to hit me harder than anything, everything else has become "background smells".

I suppose my sense of smell got boosted though by having had poor vision for all my life (a condition I was born with), so my other senses kicked into overdrive. I can't really attribute it to anything beyond that, because there are no other members of my family who have such sensitive senses.

As for the nature of the thread, I was going to add fleas but I see that's been covered. Still, it would be interesting if someone found a bunch of flea-medication in someone's house, and they didn't have a Dog. Would a were actually keep a canid as company to avoid questions regarding canine medicines present, as cover? Just a thought, anyway.

[Saber]

Hey man im here and im ready plus im only twelve yay!!! and im not able to morph and tape it WTF...

[Leonca~]

[Bloodyredbaron]

Accidently infecting others could certainly be a problem if we're talking about a bloodborne virus.

[Vagrant]

Isn't that the were from Legendary in your sig, Baron? I really need to get around to playing that game...

Anyway, I have one!

We all know that a well-trained Werewolf would have no trouble controlling their shifts while conscious, but what about unconsciouus shifting; either when sleeping or knocked out? A Werewolf might shift in their sleep without even realising it, due to triggers occurring in their dreams (I'll get to a possible solution later).

Basically, a Werewolf may get knocked out, and they may shift defensively while losing consciousness, or if someone were to burgle a house, they may find a gestalt lying in a bed. If that burglar has a camera, the Werewolf was a heavy sleeper, and the World hadn't known of the existence of Werewolves, then say goodbye to the secret!

One way to deal with this would be simply shift at night, and have the shift replace the need to sleep. That's how The Astounding Wolf-man did it. But let's say that a Were needs a degree of sleep, for whatever reason, this could prove problematic. How would a Werewolf deal with this?

Would each new Werewolf have to undergo hypnosis and training to recognise lucid dreaming (and other tricks) to try and stop themselves from shifting as they sleep? How would they be able to avoid the sleeping shift otherwise? As I said, if they got discovered like that, it'd be bad for them.

Another solution could be technology, if it's in a suitably advanced Universe, but it would have to be technology that's suitably concealed, so that it can't be discovered. But perhaps the tech would simply play some kind of alarm whenever its monitoring detects a shift.

The best outcome they could hope for is someone familiar to them walking in after they locked the door, who'd go about screaming as if they'd encountered a monster, hopefully waking them up.

But yes, I'll leave it at that!

Edited to add...

Okay, there is one other thing I have to add. I came up with this idea because I'd been thinking about the pros and cons of a painless shift, if the shifter was just a natural shifter whom could access the change easily, as if it were second nature.

[Bloodyredbaron]

Isn't that the were from Legendary in your sig, Baron? I really need to get around to playing that game...

Indeed it is.

[RedEye]

What problems would being a Werewolf cause?

Since September 2007, I've been thinking about this.

Still, no answer.
(sigh)

[RongYao]

The problems to be werewolf, I'll tell you the goodies too .

If you are talking about shapeshifting werewolf, the pain till he is shifting .
You probably can't talk .
You must live like an animal, no watching tv, no using computer, no cooked food .
The little bugs .
You can't go to doctor .
You can't take a shower until reach some river, instead that you can use your tongue ... blqh .

Here comes some funny suggestions .
No sex for you, you must learn the dog's self masturbate .

Here some pluses .
You are a werewolf .

That is everything that comes to my mind at the moment .

[Vuldari]

What problems would being a Werewolf cause?

Since September 2007, I've been thinking about this.

Still, no answer.
(sigh)

Clearly your perception of a werewolf is drastically different from mine. Until I came here, Lycanthropy was never suggested as or supposed to be, in any way, a GOOD thing.

The only reason I have not posted a reply here yet is because I don't even know where to begin.

... my response to this could easily become one of my multi paragraph, chaptered Essay answers. I'm too tired to write one of those right now. They usually take me HOURS.


... you can't think of ANYTHING?? ... Seriously? ... Start with problems normal humans have ... then think of the problems that plague the lives of common wolves ... cross reference the two to find all the ways being in the others environment would further complicate said problems, especially when experiencing both sets of issues at the same time ... that should give you a good place to start.


You make it sound like you think being a Werewolf would SOLVE all of life's problems. ... HA! ... yeah right ...

[Vagrant]

Ouch...

That, or he could simply mean that he doesn't see any problems which go beyond those which we suffer with anyway.

Health problems? Humanity has plenty of those, and as far as medicine goes we're still in the dark ages, because there are many conditions which can barely be eased, let alone cured. I have one such condition, personally.

And there are plenty of situational issues that crop up in day to day life for most people, things that are difficult to explain or merely embarrassing. Most people will take that in their stride though and mark the person as eccentric.

After a long time of thought, the only things I could come up with were fleas (which really isn't that much of a problem at all, the more I think of it the more simple it seems for a person to handle, providing there's a Werewolf society in place), and unexpected shape-shifting at night.

We have plenty of problems as Humans, Vuldari, and this is something that hits very close to home, for me. It's not necessarily true that adding in the Werewolf equation would make things much worse.

So I'm actually very inclined to agree with RedEye, without even beginning to imply that being a Werewolf would solve all our problems.

[Bloodyredbaron]

[Vuldari]

It's not necessarily true that adding in the Werewolf equation would make things much worse.

So I'm actually very inclined to agree with RedEye ...

Clearly, the both of you are looking at the issue "Through Rose Colored Glasses" so to speak.

... I swear, you CAN'T be serious ...

FLEAS?? ... that's all you can think of?


* Psychological Turmoil. ( ... where does one begin? )

*Physical Abnormalities. (no species on the planet is "Perfect". I see no reason why Lycanthropy would magically be immune to all disease, cancer, genetic defects, degenerative diseases ... let alone new kinds of sickness that would be unique to, or amplified by shapeshifting, such as body parts and organs not changing properly, especially when injured ... or forms of cellular degradation that are accelerated by repeated re-growth ... )

* Social/Political isolation and/or prejudice. ... not the least of which being that entire cultures would probably refuse to classify them as "Human", and treat them as Animals, denying them all civil, moral and legal rights of the citizen of ANY country, or even a civilized being at all.


... that's just what comes to mind off the top of my head.

As I said ... given time to think about it, I'm quite confident I could write an entire essay on the subject, explaining all of these things in detail, and more.

I think you both need to think about it a little bit harder and more realistically.

[Celestialwolf]

I guess I'm with Redeye on this one. I'd consider lycanthropy to be one of the biggest blessings were it to happen to me! There wouldn't be any real problems besides the obvious keeping one's identity a secret.

[lycanthropeful]

... I swear, you CAN'T be serious ...

FLEAS?? ... that's all you can think of?

One thing to say... Vuldari, do you like werewolves? Sorry if that sounds harsh. You are incredible at coming up with well-thought out essay-like posts of rebuttal, but to strike down the thought that someone might find lycanthropy their perfect ideal just seems oddly pessimistic for a board dedicated to lycanthropy and werewolves.

Yeah, it wouldn't be perfect, there ARE so many problems, but for some people, I'd think taking on all those "problem" qualities of the wolf, like increased bloodlust, less control over your emotions, and whatnot, is the "imperfection" that draws us to it. That's what makes it a fantasy for me. Even with its "problems," being a werewolf would still be such a form of escape for me. Economically, the things you're seeing as "costs" are "benefits" for me, so to say. The benefits of being a lycan would definitely outweigh the costs, as I'm sure many will agree. Being human ain't perfect, either.

Yeah, you got to think about that sort of stuff, scott. I can't imagine having to marrying into my own "kind." I'm partly asian and I rather not marry into an asian family. Don't get me wrong. I do have pride in my bloodline, but I would like other nationalities in my bloodline, like italian...mmmh brunettes.
Imagine if you're a werewolf and your marriage has been organized before you were even born. Some cultures still do it, but having no control over who you want to be with because of the risk of thinning or mixing blood. And who would marry a monster anyway? How many people out there are understanding enough. Surely not americans..I know, because I live in America and I've met plenty of girls that say they don't like asian men, because they aren't attracted to them. Yeah me.....Good old fashioned racism.

Well, if you did it right, it could work as the basis for a love story. A good one, not that supermarket-shelf crap.

That's a huge part of my werewolf novel. The main character is a female werewolf, whose lycanthropy was brought on by a curse back in Ancient Rome, bestowed upon her family by the goddess Diana. Ever since then, the females in the lineage have carried the curse, and of course the affliction of lycanthropy, but are fated to find a mate and to produce a child. The child will be born a female - and also a werewolf. It's a vicious circle. I've never read any of the Twilight series, but the little that I found out about it leads me to believe that it's kind of similar to the "imprinting" process from the books. Inevitably the werewolf will somehow charm a man to fall in love with her, despite her underlying bestial nature, and the curse will continue through generations.

In that fictional case, the female lycan is bound to find a person who might be of a heritage other than Italian (Roman curse - the whole line is at least 50% Italian), but it wouldn't 'spoil' the lineage. By some quirk of genetics, the child will always be a female werewolf, being 50% Italian, 50% whatever ethnicity the father is. I know it isn't logical, but hey, it's fiction.

Being that the main character is 17 years old, there's that bit of high school romance abound. But it's somewhat deeper. Her boyfriend in the novel was a childhood best friend, the only person whom she trusted to tell about her lycanthropy. I think if that situation came up in real life, you'd be surprised to find that someone might appreciate, or even be attracted to lycanthropy. At least in the novel, they get along so well because of their shared distaste for the "popular" crowd at school. Boy keeps most of his anger for them bottled up, but releases stress by playing lacrosse or working; girl takes out her anger on them by going 'wolf. They obviously have such different forms of release, but it's still a difference between them that they can learn to love.

I don't think it's impossible. Yes, being a werewolf would be a problem because of that factor of rejection (among other things), but I'm sure someone would appreciate lycan traits in a way. As long as my mate didn't eat me, I'm pretty sure I could deal.

[Vagrant]

I'm inclined to agree with you, lycanth, as far as romance goes. In the equation of love, something like lycanthropy may be considered too awkward for people to deal with if one is just a Human, but it really does depend on the Human.

If the person has obsessions and desires of their own, then they could understand how Humanity could be different, they already understood it within the confines of their mindscape long ago, and they could probably deal with it.

So, as you said ... providing the Werewolf didn't make out as though they were cursed, and that there was a likelihood of their Human mate being eaten on the first full moon, I think that the right Human could adapt. And over time, such a Human may even desire to become a lycanthrope themselves anyway, if possible.

Now onto Vuldari's post...

I was actually dreading having to pick this thread up again, Vuldari, because I'm not fond of the way you debate. In this case, you were cherry picking. You picked up the part of my post about fleas, and then promptly ignored the rest of what I'd wrote, there.

The problem with this is that you ignored what I said about the problems we already have with our own physiology as Humans, which retroactively replied to what you said about Werewolf physiology. If that doesn't make sense, I'll explain: First I'll recap by pointing out again that there are many ailments we can suffer as Humans which cannot be cured, and in many cases can't even be eased, that's just a fact of life. Adding the Werewolf equation to this wouldn't change much.

So what I was trying to get at (and lycanth spotted it and pointed it out too) was that we have so many problems as Humans, that health problems are simply a fact of life. Why is this a Werewolf problem, rather than a problem with life in general? Every living being suffers with similar things, Wolves, Humans, Werewolves... it's not a Werewolf problem, it's just something we deal with as part of being alive.

If a World has a Werewolf society in place, who's to say that they haven't got their own methods of healing? Turn a few Veterinarians, Doctors, and Scientists and you can start looking at how to treat such ailments. And that's without even factoring in the possible regenerative and magical angles.

So my point still is: Why is that a Werewolf problem? Why would it be so much worse as a Werewolf? Like lycanth said, being a Werewolf wouldn't be perfect, but expecting a Human to be perfect under any circumstances is just as silly.

As for psychological turmoil and sociopolitical ramifications (I love typing that), that again would be down to whether there's a Werewolf society in place, but I really don't think there's any point at all in debating it... we'll each have our own views and if it does come down to debate, things will only degrade.

[Silent Hunter]

we'll each have our own views and if it does come down to debate, things will only degrade.

This screams of Intellectual cowardness to me. Don't debate as it will only downgrade? Please, only if the debate turns into a fight without any evidence, proper reasoning or logic will that happen. Otherwise its just people stating their opinions and agreeing with each other with little or no meat into a discussion. Now if its Vul's debate style then that can be ammended with him/her.

Werewolves will suffer cancers, illnesses and pyhcological damage of course due to the fact they are both and wolf. This same reason will also stop a fair amount of illnesses. The mental and physical health of a werewolf is something that can take a hit just like any animal on Earth. No matter what regenerating, healing, magic voodoo bullcrap or whatever. Its still very for a were to die of infection from a wound without it being treated. I assume werewolves would make steps to get things treated as well which also factors into this.

[Bloodyredbaron]

... I swear, you CAN'T be serious ...

FLEAS?? ... that's all you can think of?

One thing to say... Vuldari, do you like werewolves? Sorry if that sounds harsh. You are incredible at coming up with well-thought out essay-like posts of rebuttal, but to strike down the thought that someone might find lycanthropy their perfect ideal just seems oddly pessimistic for a board dedicated to lycanthropy and werewolves.

Yeah, it wouldn't be perfect, there ARE so many problems, but for some people, I'd think taking on all those "problem" qualities of the wolf, like increased bloodlust, less control over your emotions, and whatnot, is the "imperfection" that draws us to it. That's what makes it a fantasy for me. Even with its "problems," being a werewolf would still be such a form of escape for me. Economically, the things you're seeing as "costs" are "benefits" for me, so to say. The benefits of being a lycan would definitely outweigh the costs, as I'm sure many will agree. Being human ain't perfect, either.

This is a loaded question, of course he likes werewolves, his "ideal" is just different than yours, and mine is probably a far cry from either of yours.

And you're both assuming that we're dealing with the "feel good, hugs all around, I'm just a dude who can turn into a mutant wolf lycanthropy", and you know what? That would be nice, I agree it would be pretty cool, but let's take a look at all the legends that the werewolf sprung from, no doubt you're familiar with them, this is what I like to call "werewolf vanilla" as it's the original werewolf legend without all the little add-ons Hollywood and ourselves tacked on. I don't think I need to go over the basics here, lycanthropy was either the result of a curse or a deal with the devil, most of the time you just turned into a regular old wolf and you were pretty easy to kill, usually purged with fire like the heretical scum you were.

I don't think anyone here is at all interested in that type of werewolf really, but that's the legend and it's the source and I can think of a couple of problems that might involve making a deal with Satan that would render me soulless, damn me to a eternity of never ending suffering, for a jar of lotion that allows me to turn into a wolf. Hell, if that was the case I'd move in with the Vikings and learn to turn into a damn bear.

But I digress.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is werewolves can be really almost anything the author wants them to be. Like many other legends, they're a creature that has gone through so many mutations over the years that they lend themselves to be toyed with and they'll mean many things to many different people, obviously the consensus on the forum is that werewolves are inherently good creatures (and that vampires are inherently weaker than they are. ), anything else is to be considered a deviation.

Vuldari and I clearly have our creative roots set firmly in the old school, for myself Lycanthropy is not a inherently good or even neutral phenomena, it's not evil, but being a werewolf isn't all frolicking through the woods with our wolfy friends and the only drama comes from the mean hyoomans threatening us with their guns. It's about man and beast coming conflict with one another, and it works.

[lycanthropeful]

And you're both assuming that we're dealing with the "feel good, hugs all around, I'm just a dude who can turn into a mutant wolf lycanthropy", and you know what? That would be nice, I agree it would be pretty cool, but let's take a look at all the legends that the werewolf sprung from, no doubt you're familiar with them, this is what I like to call "werewolf vanilla" as it's the original werewolf legend without all the little add-ons Hollywood and ourselves tacked on.

You're assuming just as much as I apparently was, then, too. Being a werewolf would have its perks. And yes, maybe I was thinking of lycanthropy only in a sense I'd want it to be (i.e. not thinking about what you said, its roots in heresy and sin and all that folklore). But still. The way Vuldari so vehemently made his point was what threw me off.

Whether you acknowledge the "evil" roots of "traditional" lycanthropy or not, I just got a vibe from the initial post that it was like "werewolves are inherently bad," sort of like playing the devil's advocate and erasing all potentially good aspects of lycanthropy. This thread probably isn't intended to be optimistic in nature, since it's not "What benefits would being a werewolf create?" yet I still though it strange that suddenly all the horrible things you can contract as a human would suddenly be made so much worse when afflicted with lycanthropy.

S'pose it's best to agree to disagree.

[Vagrant]

@BloodyRedBaron

Oh dear...

Yes, I am assuming that I'm dealing with the kind of Werewolf that means the most to me, what else am I supposed to do? Opposedly, you're also dealing with the kind of Werewolf that means the most to you, what else can you do? From this, I'm forced to wonder: What point are you trying to make?

The thing is, the origins of a person's Werewolf interest don't make that Werewolf any more or less special than any other, and we're each going to come at this based upon our own creations. A question was asked: What problems would being a Werewolf cause? That question is answered by each of us looking at what problems our individual Werewolves would have.

What I take mild offense at is when someone gets all hoighty-toighty just because my view of a Werewolf isn't compatible with theirs. For example: When Vuldari responded with "Ha! You think becoming a Werewolf is the solution to everything." (or something similar), I found that a bit offensive and condescending. He's superimposing his own view of a Werewolf over that of everyone else, at their expense. So I wouldn't be surprised if lycanthropeful took offense at the same things we did.

When Vuldari does that, it becomes a debating field, because he's gone on the attack in regards to our views. Then it becomes a matter of my Werewolf versus his Werewolf. And yes, we're still each going to be coming from this based on our own creations, that won't have changed. It's fine that you like horror based Werewolves. What isn't fine is for Vuldari to be disrespectful of other people's views just because they aren't compatible with his.

And that's what started this.

So you don't need to be defensive, we aren't needlessly attacking the horror Werewolf, that was never my intent either. I have nothing against horror Werewolf fans. All I'm doing is defending myself against Vuldari who is unable to treat my view of a Werewolf with respect. He could accept that my Werewolf, RedEye's Werewolf, and possibly lycanthropeful's Werewolf wouldn't have the problems that his would.

That's what usually sets me off with Vuldari, if he could reply without quoting someone and say what problems his Werewolf would have. Fine! But he has to quote someone, and he has to put their views down, and that I find ... I don't know. It bothers me.

And what's worse, is that if we combat Vuldari in turn for what he's done, we're made out to be the villains. It's a lose/lose scenario.

I'm probably going to end up regretting this, but I had to get it off my chest sooner or later.

Believe me when I say that I can respect anyone who loves the Hollywood Werewolf over all others. But I can't respect a person who feels they have to one-down another person's Were to one-up their own.

[lycanthropeful]

And what's worse, is that if we combat Vuldari in turn for what he's done, we're made out to be the villains. It's a lose/lose scenario.

I'm probably going to end up regretting this, but I had to get it off my chest sooner or later.

Amen. Though the way you say "in turn for what [Vuldari]'s done" makes it seem really bad - simply I was appalled that he was so seemingly anti- werewolf in a crowd of werewolf lovers, haha. I almost didn't wander back to this thread because I tend to make a bold statement and then withdraw from the crossfire, which is sheepish of me, but I was too interested in this thread's topic to not return. Not that I generally go around starting flame wars on the Intarwebs, but I wanted to throw in my opinion here. Sorry if I caused any dismay.

Oh well, what's done is done, que sera sera.

[Wingman]

Werewolf the Forsaken has a special werewolf specific condition, a sort of cancer caused by their regeneration.

But, really, specific problems depend on specific werewolves and their type. Hard Magic ones will have different problems from Soft Magic ones, and so forth. Loners will have different problems from exiles and outcasts, and so forth.

Depending on the setting, becoming a werewolf might result in someone being a pariah, in other cases it might result in being forced into duties and roles that you don't want.
Deformed limbs, cancers, conflicting immune systems and likewise, derangements and compulsions are only the beginning. That's just on the realistic sides, it gets stranger once you bring magic into the mix. Geas, curses, maybe the werewolf drives all nearby animals into bloodthirsty frenzies, maybe everything more advanced than Steam-tech breaks and stops working whenever the werewolf comes near, maybe the werewolf's transformation is controlled by someone else, maybe it's actually a body swap and their human body is stumbling around wondering what just happened. Maybe the werewolf not only heals fast but ages fast, aging a decade every turn on the moon. Maybe they are permanently in heat, maybe they have packs of animals chasing them around trying to jump their bones.
There are only suggestions for this type of thing, saying "This is what I think", which is why I advise making a database for this kind of thing, wherein every trait is listed and people can just point and say "That's what I mean".

And now I make my leave, carpe crustulum. Sieze the pastry.

[Vagrant]

@lycanthropeful

I know how you feel, lycanth... I've been avoiding this for a while too, and I've been trying my best not to comment and to even avoid Vuldari because he winds me up so much. That's what lead to me exaggerating a bit at the end there, it's because he's done this so often in the past that I find it grating, it's like a broken record.

A personable poster can come along and state what they believe about Werewolves, and then in pops Vuldari with "Ah, but you're wrong, because that's not how it is for Hollywood Werewolves!". He has been getting a bit better, and recognising his opinion from objective fact in some threads (possibly because I've snapped at him before), but every once in a while he just falls back on his old habits. He did that here.

And there's no need for it. No one ever attacks Hollywood Werewolves until Vuldari has a go at someone else's.

Like I said... it's just something that I've had pent up over a long while, and I felt that if I didn't say something, I'd explode. Because I have no idea where Vuldari's going to pop in next and make it so very difficult for me to express my love of Werewolves, just because it doesn't agree with his.

I feel I'm probably going to get in so much trouble for expressing my feelings like this, because Vuldari's been here for a while, and I'm new. But I simply had to, I was tired of being afraid to post in threads I liked... I'm not a confident person, I'm swatted away easily and I don't have a lot of conviction, so there have been times where I've just forced myself to reply.

@Wingman

Your post is something I could point at and say "See? That's how it's done."

I agree with the database idea too, it would really help out a lot.

[lycanthropeful]

I know how you feel, lycanth... I've been avoiding this for a while too, and I've been trying my best not to comment and to even avoid Vuldari because he winds me up so much. That's what lead to me exaggerating a bit at the end there, it's because he's done this so often in the past that I find it grating, it's like a broken record.

Ah, well I've seen some heated arguments between Vuldari and others, but I usually tend to shy away from confrontation on forums since I'm always afraid someone will end up hating me for something relatively mild. Weird. I haven't been here long enough to honestly have a bad experience.

There are only suggestions for this type of thing, saying "This is what I think", which is why I advise making a database for this kind of thing, wherein every trait is listed and people can just point and say "That's what I mean".

And now I make my leave, carpe crustulum. Sieze the pastry.

That's a wonderful idea!

And being a Latin geek, your choice of phrase for your departure is definitely praiseworthy. te laudo!

[Vagrant]

I know...

I have so much respect for the people here, there are those I admire and some I even idolise. I've left this for so long because I fear it'll lessen me in their eyes, and that's really not something I want. I know I may have made one or two enemies with this, and that's not something I want either. But I had to say something. After all, if worst comes to worst, I can just stop coming here... the name Vagrant fits well in that regard. I would miss this place, but I'd rather it be me saying these things than those peple I respect, anyway.

Edited...

I just wanted to add an apology here anyway, to everyone. You shouldn't have all had to have read that. Even to Vuldari, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm the problem in this case, I don't know.

[Midnight]

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