Labeling oneself a therian

[lycanthropeful]

This isn't meant to be a "give me an answer" thread, rather a discussion. I have a bad habit of needing to label myself all the time, like I must be an atheist I must be conservative, like I can't just say, "I'm not sure if I believe in God," or "I tend to lean to the right side of the political spectrum, but not always." It's there's no middle ground with me.

Anyway, with that as a preface, I was looking up some information about therianthropy on WikiFur tonight because I was never truly sure what it was by definition. After reading it, I think I could declare myself a mild therian: I simply identify with a wolf as an animal that I occasionally take on traits of or act like, purely in a psychological sense. I am not one of the loonies who convinces him or herself that he or she can physically shift, nor do I associate any spirituality in the matter.

I guess in terms from the article, I undergo occasional "M-shifts," or mental shifts. Sometimes when I get angry, I feel like I keep the rage around a little longer simply because it makes me feel a connection with the attitude of a wolf. I also fabricate common connections to wolves, like the appetite for meat or desire for physical strength and freedom (I use the word 'fabricate' intentionally to insinuate a manufactured behavior; to me, any little thing I can do that is still enjoyable that feels lupine to me is something worth indulging in). Most of that, I feel, is locked away in me psychologically.

[Side note: Before I left for college from winter break, I actually typed up a 10 page essay that I wrote, which I read to my parents, that detailed my understanding of why I feel the way I do about wolves in a psychological manner. It had been bottling up in me for what, 18 years? I always felt "weird," if even "devious" when trying to show them my art about werewolves, or discuss why I liked them... so everything came out in a huge essay because I couldn't take it anymore. Classic notes of Freud's id and superego, repressed desires, paraphilias, and all that stuff most people seem to relate to. Luckily my parents really ARE those parents who you could go to if you did something horribly wrong, and they'd try to solve the problem quickly instead of chastising you for your mistakes. They understood pretty well and didn't mind.]

This is kind of rambling now, but I just wonder where therians draw the line when deciding what associations, behaviors, or preferences constitute the individual being able to call themselves a "therian." I guess after assembling some information and reflecting on how I feel, in a way I could consider myself therian. Thoughts or discussion are welcome.

[MattSullivan]

Labels suck.

[PariahPoet]

There is not really any "mild". It's a yes or no thing.
If you think you're a wolf in a human skin you may be therian. If you think that you're just "like" a wolf, then it's probably something else. Perhaps wolf is your totem?
Things like that can be complicated. My theriotype is a jaguarundi, but my totem is wolf. ^^
But in any case there is really no need to rush into labels. You are who/what you are no matter what you call yourself. :3

[Berserker]

There isn't a universally accepted definition of "therian." It is a highly contentious label that gave rise mostly on the Internet. Since it is mainly based on anecdotal spiritual observation, even the therians themselves are a source of controversy and argumentation about what it means. There's no clear answer to any of this.

Just as there's such a thing as a "weak" or "strong" athiest, there can easily be a "weak/mild" or "strong" therian. The same dichotomy holds true for most beliefs.

But like Matt, I really dislike pop culture labels. As for my own personal beliefs regarding therianthropy, my advice would be to avoid the label itself.

I think that much like Wicca or "New Age," it is primarily a segment of pop culture, only peripherally based on any real belief system from the ancient past. It is a modern Internet subculture thrown into overdrive by the spread of furry fandom (interestingly, the idea really only became popular when people started talking about it on the alt.horror.werewolves newsgroup. That's why you still find "otherkin" going around calling themselves werewolves, something that infuriates me.)

It has it's share of psychological ingenuity, but as I posted in Werewolfdragon's thread, I think any "real" animal influence is actually just a convenient interpretation of impulses that are completely human. That's pretty much what you're talking about anyway, lycanthropeful. Add a little fantasy daydreaming to the equation and you get people going around on the internet claiming to be animals trapped in human bodies.

I stop just short of dismissing the whole phenomenon, because I do believe humans have a genetic memory of other animals that can manifest itself subconsciously. However, to explode this concept into some kind of identity is an act that I cannot endorse. By all means, if you think something is there, I see nothing wrong with trying to understand it, and even embracing it: but please examine it from all angles first before you let something you read on the Internet influence you.

[lycanthropeful]

I think that much like Wicca or "New Age," it is primarily a segment of pop culture, only peripherally based on any real belief system from the ancient past. It is a modern Internet subculture thrown into overdrive by the spread of furry fandom (interestingly, the idea really only became popular when people started talking about it on the alt.horror.werewolves newsgroup. That's why you still find "otherkin" going around calling themselves werewolves, something that infuriates me.)...

I stop just short of dismissing the whole phenomenon, because I do believe humans have a genetic memory of other animals that can manifest itself subconsciously. However, to explode this concept into some kind of identity is an act that I cannot endorse. By all means, if you think something is there, I see nothing wrong with trying to understand it, and even embracing it: but please examine it from all angles first before you let something you read on the Internet influence you.

Thanks for the input, I think that's good advice to take. I don't think I just opened up a WikiFur page and went, "Hmm, well, today I'm going to decide to be a therian." Likely it just doesn't work like that... I wouldn't go out searching for a trend to cling to just because I was interested in it and "wanted to be one."

Mostly I was confused about the what if chance that I did say I was a therian if people would confuse my belief with otherkin, like you mentioned. They piss me off to no end as well. It's physically impossible to be an animal in a human body. It just is (in the sense that you think at night you transform into some other being). That's why I'm hesitant to associate with the label 'therian' in the first place. Half the time I get wary about the Pack itself because by the nature of our forums themselves, every now and then we attract really radical people who are 100% convinced they are werewolves.

Then again, I don't have to. No one is saying, "pick a name for what you are." I was just interested in finding a strain of beliefs with a name that might cross paths with the experience I have, or rather the association to an animal that I have. Having a "totem" animal is kind of what I guess I have, though like I said, I relate none of it to spirituality. It's linked more to a repressed bestial desire that occasionally comes out.

There is not really any "mild". It's a yes or no thing.
If you think you're a wolf in a human skin you may be therian. If you think that you're just "like" a wolf, then it's probably something else. Perhaps wolf is your totem?
Things like that can be complicated. My theriotype is a jaguarundi, but my totem is wolf. ^^
But in any case there is really no need to rush into labels. You are who/what you are no matter what you call yourself. :3

That's where I'm maybe confused... sorry if this sounds rude, but do you think that you actually ARE a jaguarundi? That you were born an animal and you're stuck in a human body (much like gender dysphoria, where men think they are more comfortable as.meant to be women and vice versa)? Especially since you said your totem is a wolf. The way I'm interpreting this is that you feel you are an animal in the physical sense, but you associate with a wolf? Correct me if that's way off.

I'm just curious, I think it's an interesting subject in psychology and spirituality. I guess in general there's no need to label how I feel about wolves as far as personal behavior and such goes AS something, after all... but if I could, that would bring me some closure, perhaps.

[Berserker]

Thanks for the input, I think that's good advice to take. I don't think I just opened up a WikiFur page and went, "Hmm, well, today I'm going to decide to be a therian." Likely it just doesn't work like that... I wouldn't go out searching for a trend to cling to just because I was interested in it and "wanted to be one."

Mostly I was confused about the what if chance that I did say I was a therian if people would confuse my belief with otherkin, like you mentioned. They piss me off to no end as well. It's physically impossible to be an animal in a human body. It just is (in the sense that you think at night you transform into some other being). That's why I'm hesitant to associate with the label 'therian' in the first place. Half the time I get wary about the Pack itself because by the nature of our forums themselves, every now and then we attract really radical people who are 100% convinced they are werewolves.

I've been told that "therians" are different from "otherkin." I don't know, that just goes back to my first point, that all this stuff comes from the same basic idea, it's all related, it all gained popularity on the internet in the same newsgroups and forums. Most people don't know, and don't care, about the difference between furry, therian, otherkin, or whatever. For example, 14-year-old kids watch Underworld, get obsessed with Lycans, and then go on the internet and talk about how they're "therians." What a mess!

And that's why I'm so cynical about the whole thing. It's all so dubious. The therian label comes with a ton of baggage, thus my warning against adopting it.

[RedEye]

Perhaps the closest thing that could be demonstrably a "Therian" nature is the Shamanic "Spirit Animal" concept, where one has an inner "Spirit Animal" nature, and growing closer to this animal spirit is what the learning aspect is about.
Note: this is achieved through some pretty heavy fasting and sweating rituals and is not for the merely curious.

I offer this version as the oldest concept of having an animal spirit within oneself... And yes, even determined Therians have trouble with actually defining what it is that they claim to be. What gives some credence to the whole process is the commonality of experiences when there is no way that these experiences could have been discussed and agreed to at some prior date.

Just because one cannot describe it doesn't make it any less real... it just means that we don't have words to convey what we are feeling or have felt.
It's sort of like a caveman trying to describe an electric light to his/her contemporaries. The words just aren't there.

[Vagrant]

Hmmm...

Given any label that has a belief and/or society surrounding it, there's always controversy, that's a given and it's not new and it doesn't really have anything to do with the Internet or the rise of technology. It's human nature, and it's the way we've always been.

Gowan, pick one: Atheism, Furry, Therian, Christian/Jewish (or similar established and organised theistic system of belief), Agnostic, Wiccan, Left/Right-wing...

So why do we use labels? As an armchair psychology geek (as some of you might have noticed), this is something I've pondered in the past, and there's one theory that seems prominent to me: The human, like its nearest cousins, is a very social creature, they like to bond in groups of like, with similars, and labels are one way to do this, even if not the most efficient.

For example, one might say; I am this, I am this, I am also this, this, this, and this, I do this, and I am a part of this, and this.

How about: I am a furry, I do art, I am a part of the furry fandom. Or I am an engineering student, I'm pursuing a bachelor's degree in robotics and engineering, I study at WPI. Or I am a politician, I'm running for Prime Minister, my party is the Green party. And so on...

This is what we do, this is how things work for us, and it's how we find similars, and then we're asked about these things, one might ask to hear about robotics projects, or political campaigns, or to see art, or to debate the nature of certain religions or beliefs, people get talking and they act social.

So...

Having good background information on what a therian is to a lot of people is important, but knowing what a therian is to you, personally is paramount. If you want to consider this as a public element of yourself, a label you'll use, then people are going to ask you about it, people are going to use it as a talking point to get to know you, so knowing why you've chosen it for yourself is important, moreso than anything else.

If however it's something internal, then it doesn't really matter, we each know whom we are in the melange of individuality contained within the human mind, without the need for too many labels, we can correlate and cross-reference things without having need for huge filing cabinets with simple names.

Were we telepathic creatures, then we probably wouldn't need huge filing cabinets with simple names, either. But I digress.

[outwarddoodles]

I consider the term therian as less of a label as it is a convenient description I am capable of applying to my own personal experiences. My experiences predicate the term.

It has it's share of psychological ingenuity, but as I posted in Werewolfdragon's thread, I think any "real" animal influence is actually just a convenient interpretation of impulses that are completely human. That's pretty much what you're talking about anyway, lycanthropeful. Add a little fantasy daydreaming to the equation and you get people going around on the internet claiming to be animals trapped in human bodies.

I stop just short of dismissing the whole phenomenon, because I do believe humans have a genetic memory of other animals that can manifest itself subconsciously. However, to explode this concept into some kind of identity is an act that I cannot endorse. By all means, if you think something is there, I see nothing wrong with trying to understand it, and even embracing it: but please examine it from all angles first before you let something you read on the Internet influence you.

Beserker: You'd be mistaken if you didn't believe that a substantial amount of therianthropes have not already considered this particular speculation. I myself have written post after post suggestion 'abnormal (but definitely human) nuerobiology" could be the antecedent of therianthropy -- which individuals either unconsciously or consciously marking off this aberrant impulses as a result of being an 'animal' other than human.

Maybe you'd be surprised to find the significant amount of therianthropes who would apply neurobiology and psychology as being the root of their 'condition.'

Anyhow, Therianthropy is really just an experience. For the skeptical: it's an experience that is real to many of those who apply the term to themselves, regardless if it's 'in their head' or 'child's play.'

Probably the best definition to date (one general enough to describe most therianthropic experiences) has been put forth by Sonne Spiritwind: "A person who is, feels, or believes he/she is in part or whole (non-physically) one or more non-human animals on an integral, personal level"

Lycanth: If you are furthurmore interested, several pack members here are also frequenters of the the therianthropy board, "Werelist." -- which is probably one of the best forums anyone can use to procure additional information about therianthropy.

[PariahPoet]

Well said, Doodles. ^^

[RedEye]

...and Experiences, being intensely personal,
are usually the hardest things to convey to others in a way that makes sense.

Perhaps that is intentional. Some things are essentially personal in nature, and while sharable in the general sense are generally occult in the personal sense; since no two people have the same mind.