Howling

[WolfVanZandt]

If the leader is military, I would expect it. Otherwise, I think a pack of Werewolves would sooner or later recognize the utility of signs fo technical communications. It may happen later in the development of their culture, though.

[Terastas]

If the leader is military, I would expect it. Otherwise, I think a pack of Werewolves would sooner or later recognize the utility of signs fo technical communications. It may happen later in the development of their culture, though.

Military? I'm not talking about hand signals like the coaches use in the dug-out. There are also universal hand gestures that we naturally employ in every day life; waving someone over, giving the "OK," or flipping the bird (like in Cursed) for example. Something as simple as that they could use, right?

[WolfVanZandt]

Actually, I'm talking about Amslan. I thought we were considering intelligent creatures here. If the only thing that prevents them from using technical information is a dog head, that's no impediment at all. Why in the world would a pack of Werewolves want to shoot a bird yet not know how to carry on a meanngful dialog with sign language?

[Kzinistzerg]

It would probably not be hand signals alone. it would probably include all parts of teh body equally, and tails can be used ro expression as well... but it would be hard top adapt to because the human face evolved to show expressions, and the wolf face did not.

[WolfVanZandt]

Wolf faces, not show expressions??!!?

[Kzinistzerg]

*sigh*

no, i said, that it did not evolve specifically for that purpose. while a hand did not evolve to scratch your butt, it can still do that, yes?

[ChaosWolf]

Great, now I've got the mental images of humans walking around with small a**-scratching hands growing out of them.

[WolfVanZandt]

If you are an evolutionist, then you realize that no evolution proceeds "because" of anything. Evolution proceeds by small random events which are reinforced because some of the events increase the likeliood of survival. The fact that wolves' faces are expressive, in the same way that humans' faces are expressive indicate that they evolved to be so.

But whatta know. I'm a Creationist (actually I'm an Intelligent Designist that believes that evolution might have played an important part in creation).

[Feral]

Mammals need facial muscles for sucking (the whole mammary adaptation is pretty useless if the baby can't get the milk). But you only really need to do that when you're a baby... so what are you gonna do with all those muscles when you get older? Might as well do something with them. I guess giving social ques through facial expression makes sense

[WolfVanZandt]

Sure, and the same can be said of humans.

[Terastas]

Mammals need facial muscles for sucking (the whole mammary adaptation is pretty useless if the baby can't get the milk). But you only really need to do that when you're a baby... so what are you gonna do with all those muscles when you get older? Might as well do something with them. I guess giving social ques through facial expression makes sense

Muscles designed specifically for sucking... I can think of a few things those might be good for later, but I'm sure I'm not the first one to make that connection and pass on the mention of it.

It wouldn't be fair to say wolves are not expressive, but they definitely don't demonstrate their emotions in the same way we do. Both can smile, for example, but you can tell with a human if the smile is happy, smug, devious, or fake. The wolf's would be difficult to distinguish based on the face alone, but a trained eye could probably tell the motive based on the ears and tail, for example.

So its not a problem of expression; just adapting to the new versions.

[Set]

Uhm, Feral? Not all mammals have facial muscles that can do that. The baby dolphin gets its milk by latching on to the mother's nipple while she uses specialized muscles to squirt the milk into the baby's mouth. It's interesting watching a dolphin nurse.

[WolfVanZandt]

Empathy, and I include reading facial muscles, is individualistic. You have to have some understanding of the individual before you can understand their gesturisms (that's much more true of nonverbal communicaton than it is of verbal). The reason you would have a hard time understanding the expressions of a wolf is that you don't know the wolf well enough. But, by just watching documentaries, you should be able to tell that there are nuances to a wolf's smile.

[Kzinistzerg]

Yeah, like "fangs...no fangs!"

[Feral]

Uhm, Feral? Not all mammals have facial muscles that can do that. The baby dolphin gets its milk by latching on to the mother's nipple while she uses specialized muscles to squirt the milk into the baby's mouth. It's interesting watching a dolphin nurse.

Ok, fine, but it could be argued that dolphins are descended from other mammals that *could* suck. lol, such details...

[Silver]

Ok, butt scratching aside, this is what I think I've read:

Wolf howls are a form of communication, bot inter and intra pack. WW howls would be the same but a bit more complex. Body language is definitely used for both though, again, the WW would be more complex. Do I have it right?


And just for the record, my dobermans smile, and it's pretty obvious once you get to know them. Their smiles are different from a snarl and you don't have to see the rest of the body to know the difference. But that may just be dobermans

[Kzinistzerg]

I think you should include my butt-scratching lecture in the movie! *gets bombarded with duckies* aaaa!

but yes, that is esentially what I think we have gotten to.

[Figarou]

There is ONE,

one single word, spoken by a werewolf in werewolf form. Its barely understandable, gravely, but its there. Thats the ONLY werewolf talking in this project.

That makes sense. I'm assuming such is the case because the muzzle makes most human speech difficult, but not necessarilly everything.
Every now and then on one of those home video programs, there will be footage of an animal, usually a cat or dog, that can make a noise that sounds like a specific word (I've heard multiple stories about a cat saying "hello" for example).
And in a way, maybe that's what humans are doing when they howl; they think their communicating, but their really howling: "You say potato!" or "Sponge stampede!" so the wolves howl back: "What are you talking about?" or "What the hell is wrong with you?!"

*looks at what he wrote* I don't believe it -- I just pulled a Figarou. Okay, back on topic:

Now how in the world did I miss this?

Gee, let me pull a Terastas.




Now back to being me!!

[Wingman]

Wingman dons a lab coat, uses a special Scientific pencil to poke with, and uses a loupe to inspect the thread.
"It lives, it lives!"

Has there been a finalization of this issue, some sort of official decision?

To my mind, a howl would likely be equivalent to a single word. So thing like "Yes!", "No!", "Meat!", "What?", "Run!", "Gather!", "Barbecue!", and so forth. As well there would be general wordless howls, for those extreme emotions or experiences, or like how people will occasionally give a "Whoop!" for whatever reason. In some ways I imagine a bunch of them howling together would be akin to a bunch of people singing a (drinking) song, or an anthem.

[/thread revive]