Werewolves choosing to Infect others...

[Shadu]

can i suggest this reading for my oppinion on why to turn someone? now this is for me one of the best werewolf stories i've read and i recomend it very much.

http://transform.to/~mattyrat/perpetual/contents.html

[Vuldari]

can i suggest this reading for my oppinion on why to turn someone? now this is for me one of the best werewolf stories i've read and i recomend it very much.

http://transform.to/~mattyrat/perpetual/contents.html

Any chance you could slip me the Cliffs Notes version of that?...
That is alot of reading to go through to find out what you are talking about.

[Silverclaw]

Being a werewolf could be a lot like the saying in the Spiderman movies.."My gift, my curse, my life"

[Figarou]

Being a werewolf could be a lot like the saying in the Spiderman movies.."My gift, my curse, my life"

Wrong movie. It was Van Helsing that said that.

[Silverclaw]

Nope, I watched Spiderman many a time. They said that line a lot. And it came out before Hellsing.

[Figarou]

Nope, I watched Spiderman many a time. They said that line a lot. And it came out before Hellsing.

Ah, ok.

First time I heard it was it Van Helsing.

[Shadu]

can i suggest this reading for my oppinion on why to turn someone? now this is for me one of the best werewolf stories i've read and i recomend it very much.

http://transform.to/~mattyrat/perpetual/contents.html

Any chance you could slip me the Cliffs Notes version of that?...
That is alot of reading to go through to find out what you are talking about.

sorry it took so long. i've been having some personal problems and was unable to check the forum.

i can only say i love the way Mathias expresses the lycanthropy. you have to take into consideration that in a way werewolves are or might be demonic. in his story when one is biiten (while not being hurt) even if kiiled, the virus revives, heals and then merges with the conciousnes(spelling?) of that person. what makes a werewolf aggresive is the lack of cuoperation by the human part. ithe story shows how some characters feel and even comunicate with their new wolf side while its turning them. it also shows that it can be succsfully controlled(or mostly,aggresive behavior is still possible) once the person infected accepts his new addition and allows the full merger to occur., even to the point of becomming a permanent werewolf like what happend to one of the infected who loved wolves and dreamed of becoming a werewolf. in his case his willingness allowed for a more extensive merger and he became permanently fixed in his werewolf form.

to end this long post, in the story if one was hurt it was considered by the (still not controlled) werewolves that that person was nothing more than food there fore he was eaten to a point of no return where the infection was unable to heal the body again.

[Vuldari]

...sorry it took so long. i've been having some personal problems and was unable to check the forum.

i can only say i love the way Mathias expresses the lycanthropy. you have to take into consideration that in a way werewolves are or might be demonic. in his story when one is biiten (while not being hurt) even if kiiled, the virus revives, heals and then merges with the conciousnes(spelling?) of that person. what makes a werewolf aggresive is the lack of cuoperation by the human part. ithe story shows how some characters feel and even comunicate with their new wolf side while its turning them. it also shows that it can be succsfully controlled(or mostly,aggresive behavior is still possible) once the person infected accepts his new addition and allows the full merger to occur., even to the point of becomming a permanent werewolf like what happend to one of the infected who loved wolves and dreamed of becoming a werewolf. in his case his willingness allowed for a more extensive merger and he became permanently fixed in his werewolf form.

to end this long post, in the story if one was hurt it was considered by the (still not controlled) werewolves that that person was nothing more than food there fore he was eaten to a point of no return where the infection was unable to heal the body again.

That looks like it is a very interesting story. I must admit, I am quite intrigued by that version of werewolves.

However, based on the description you gave, I don't see any explanation or reason WHY someone should become a werwolf.
Because they will become demonic beings whose wolf side consumes and merges with their conciousness, making them canaballistic...eating the weak to prevent them from regenerating?? How is that a good reason why allies of "the pack" should become werewolves themselves

Please clarify your point, if you can.

[Shadu]

true i kinda went to the hows and that. well since it takes place in a space ship the werewolves kinda are looking for companionship. the first one becomes the alpha and seeks to create a pack. it goes trying to turn all who he comes in contact with and those who are turned follow his lead. i like the way relations are shown but for that you have to read it cause it's been a while since i read it and don't remember much of it.

[Scott Gardener]

Infectious lycanthropy, as much as I love the idea, does present the problem of explaining why it's not already an epidemic. It kills the competing popular notion of the "dying breed."

If a werewolf can make a human into another werewolf, one has to come up with an explanation why humans aren't all werewolves by now.

One solution is the idea that there's a werewolf society that actively enforces being selective. Making new pups is heavily discouraged in this concept, but somehow allowed just enough to keep the lines going.

Another solution is to make it happen only on rare occasions; unlike in The Wolf Man, not just anyone bitten who survives gets it. Goldenwolf's Kierrn follow this example--it can be spread, but it's not spread accidentally at all and requires deliberate planning and a considerable amount of work, both to donor and recipient. If it can be spread accidentally, it must only happen on rare occasions--bizarre circumstances. Or, werewolves could either seldom attack humans, or humans seldom survive attacks...

I'll admit that the contageous lycanthropy / lack of overpopulation problem is a major plot flaw in my own works. But, the ramifications haven't escaped turn-of-the-millennium governments and underground conspiracy groups, who actively hunt werewolves specifically in order to prevent lycanthropy becoming a major outbreak. Ultimately, however, they fail, and by about 2020, werewolves are part of society.

[ShadowFang]

I have to agree with Scott's post. Werewolves should be extremely selective on who they decide to infect with lycanthropy. Both parties have to be willing and the odds of a mistake happening are almost unheard of. Werewolves only want the top fit, in both physical and mental conditions to preserve the bloodline so that werewolves may continue to exist and thrive within their own society.

But, the ramifications haven't escaped turn-of-the-millennium governments and underground conspiracy groups, who actively hunt werewolves specifically in order to prevent lycanthropy becoming a major outbreak. Ultimately, however, they fail, and by about 2020, werewolves are part of society.

On day my friend, one day. Don't expect it to be pretty though. Lets not forget how the human race treated its own kind just because one human had a different colored skin from another. I dare think what would happen if they found another species different from their own. That fact alone is one of the key reasons werewolves must remain hidden from the rest of society.

[Vuldari]

Infectious lycanthropy, as much as I love the idea, does present the problem of explaining why it's not already an epidemic. It kills the competing popular notion of the "dying breed."

...Another solution is to make it happen only on rare occasions; unlike in The Wolf Man, not just anyone bitten who survives gets it.
..., werewolves could either seldom attack humans, or humans seldom survive attacks...

This got me thinking. What if Lycanthropy was very very hard to contract.
For example...even if someone was attacked,(or intentionally bitten), and direct blood to blood contact was made...or even if lycanthopic blood was directly injected into their body, they would still only have a fractional chance of becoming a werewolf.
Maybe it would just be rejected by the bodys natural immune system and do nothing, or even straight kill the person like Poison, without any shift at all occurring. That would certainly give werewolves a reason to think twice before even considering converting someone.

...just a thought. :shock:

[ShadowFang]

I dont think a werewolf bite's infection should kill anybody unless of course by "bite" you mean "tear the arm completely" off. Then yes, that may kill them. Though, if a werewolf bites or--...lets just stick with blood infection actually. I can't see how saliva can transmit such a huge infection like that. I would like to think werewolves can transmit their "gift" blood to blood contact. Though, I just thought of another way...

Okay, now don't flame me for this. This is a serious question that I'm pondering just now. What about contact with werewolf semen? Your seed is the essense if everything you are. So, if a male werewolf (in were form) broke a major rule and made love to his fully human female, what would happen? I would think that she would almost most definitly contract lycanthropy.

Maybe there should be a "chance rate":

- Contact with werewolf saliva from a bite (saliva to blood contact): 10%

- Contact with a werewolf via blood to blood: 60%

- Contact with a werewolf via semen injection: 80%

Just some ideas for everyone to think about. Just try to be mature and don't turn this into another "breast size" thread please.

[ABrownrigg]

Interesting,

I would have a question about the saliva bite.. what I'm currently going with is during the shift, the persons teeth would lenthen, stretch, and the gums would invariablly bleed. Thus making the werewolfs mouth full of infection. Making a bite more potent. This would almost be considered blood to blood in my personal opinion.

As far as semen injection? hmmm, yeah, why not. Makes logical medical sense to me.

Anthony Brownrigg

[Terastas]

Infectious lycanthropy, as much as I love the idea, does present the problem of explaining why it's not already an epidemic. It kills the competing popular notion of the "dying breed."

If a werewolf can make a human into another werewolf, one has to come up with an explanation why humans aren't all werewolves by now.

1) A lycanthropic shift is extremely painful, and if the werewolve's regenerative capabilities don't kick in in time, it can be fatal.

2) Werewolves don't breed very well, presumably because the mother and cub both have lycanthropy and during the duration of the nine month period, both will have shifted multiple times. As described in Part 1, this is a dangerous process, so the chances of an unborn child surviving such a shift are slim.

3) We live in an extremely paranoid society. If one werewolf becomes exposed, it could spawn a witch hunt that could wipe out the entire pack. Theoretically, the pack could just infect a few hundred people to boost their numbers, but they would have to be selective of who they infect if they didn't want the pack to be exposed.

I'm pretty sure that's what everyone is going with at the moment.

[Scott Gardener]

I agree with ShadowFang wholeheartedly; in medicine, anything that's contageous is a matter of probability. Unprotected intercourse has about a 5% transmission of HIV from female to male, and a considerably higher chance, about 30%, from female to male, because the female is the one who receives bodily fluid. (Odds are per intercourse, and estimate figures off memory, subject to my memory's error.) Use of a condom lowers chance of transmission either way to about 3%, which is 3% more than 0%. Transmission through anal route is higher for the recipient, about 50%, because the anal mucosa does not handle the stress of intercourse as well, being outside its primary physiologic function, and thus bleeding often happens.

Odds of transmitting the Hepatitis B virus are higher by each method, because it is more virulent--it takes less of the virus to add up to an infection. Other infections are less virulent, and you don't hear about them, because there aren't that many cases. This goes with Vuldari's idea of lycanthropy being hard to contract. Maybe it takes so much of it to get it that one practically has to be mauled to the verge of death to get it by accident; it might take several tries to spread it on purpose.

As for my timeline, December 10, 2012 is a day long remembered, and the civil rights movement afterwards becomes a major turning point in future human history. That's why my portrait says "Lycanthrope Global Freedom Federation." It's an organization to protect the rights of lycanthropes, so therian children like Gerald Wilson can go to the same schools as their genetic-standard human counterparts...

[Coyote]

I've always kind of thought it was silly that someone became a werewolf by being bitten or "infected".

Aesthetically, if a person isn't just _born_ a werewolf, I'm happier with the idea that at least _part_ of what causes them to become one is something from inside them... whether it's a certain personality, a destiny, genetics, whatever. To me, it's more pleasing if there's _something_ about a person that makes them predisposed to such a thing... that it's not something that can happen to just anyone, regardless of who they are, through some simple means.

The thing that makes someone different could be explained as genetic, supernatural, or just something to do with the type of personality they are... but I think the whole idea of it being a curse, or just the result of some biting is kinda... well... blech.

Coyote

[Figarou]

I've always kind of thought it was silly that someone became a werewolf by being bitten or "infected".

Aesthetically, if a person isn't just _born_ a werewolf, I'm happier with the idea that at least _part_ of what causes them to become one is something from inside them... whether it's a certain personality, a destiny, genetics, whatever. To me, it's more pleasing if there's _something_ about a person that makes them predisposed to such a thing... that it's not something that can happen to just anyone, regardless of who they are, through some simple means.

The thing that makes someone different could be explained as genetic, supernatural, or just something to do with the type of personality they are... but I think the whole idea of it being a curse, or just the result of some biting is kinda... well... blech.

Coyote

Thats exactly how I feel about it. Glad to find someone that thinks the same way.



http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =2618#2618

[Scott Gardener]

It does add in the idea of free will. Does throw a wrench in the works of the relucant werewolf image. But, I understand the logic.

However, a relucant werewolf can have it in him or her all along; heck, a reluctant werewolf doesn't have to be bitten, but can be born with it. (Consider the classic first shapeshift scene in the life-changing Teen Wolf. "Oh, Cheese Whiz!")

A possible compromise that also economically solves several other problems at the same time could be that only someone with the "wolf within" already can be awakened by a werewolf's bite. Anyone else bitten just gets a staph infection and a few months in the looney bin.

[Figarou]

It does add in the idea of free will. Does throw a wrench in the works of the relucant werewolf image. But, I understand the logic.

However, a relucant werewolf can have it in him or her all along; heck, a reluctant werewolf doesn't have to be bitten, but can be born with it. (Consider the classic first shapeshift scene in the life-changing Teen Wolf. "Oh, Cheese Whiz!")

A possible compromise that also economically solves several other problems at the same time could be that only someone with the "wolf within" already can be awakened by a werewolf's bite. Anyone else bitten just gets a staph infection and a few months in the looney bin.

Hmmmm......rabies from a werewolf. I bet it will be more potent than a bite from a dog.

Ouch.

[Vuldari]

I've always kind of thought it was silly that someone became a werewolf by being bitten or "infected".

Aesthetically, if a person isn't just _born_ a werewolf, I'm happier with the idea that at least _part_ of what causes them to become one is something from inside them... whether it's a certain personality, a destiny, genetics, whatever. To me, it's more pleasing if there's _something_ about a person that makes them predisposed to such a thing... that it's not something that can happen to just anyone, regardless of who they are, through some simple means.

The thing that makes someone different could be explained as genetic, supernatural, or just something to do with the type of personality they are... but I think the whole idea of it being a curse, or just the result of some biting is kinda... well... blech.

Coyote

That's all cool and all, but I think it is important to focus on the "Story" part of the werewolf scenario.

This seems more like a personal fantasy playing out on the movie screen than the makings of a truely engaging story. (I know, because that is almost Exactly the way it works in the "fantasy" short stories I often write.)

Conflict and hardship make for much deeper, more emotionally moving stories than wish fullfillment.

The "chaos" that goes along with ANYONE being able to become a werewolf by "simple means", creates tension, uncertainty... It's only "blech" if it is used poorly. (...it just so happens that ALL previous attempts at this were sloppy and poorly done...)

The scenario of, "...I've allways known that there was something Special about me...and now I have PROOF. I'm a WereWolf !...", just does not feel like a good plot base to me.

...only my personal opinion, of course.

[Silver]

Wolves are pack oriented. Most humans are pack oriented. So ww would logically be pack oriented. They would want to live among their own kind. So I would think that if there were multiple wws, they would eventually find each other and yes, have a culture of their own. Just how the logic follows in my head.

Now building on that. Wolfs are hunters and therefore can only exist comfortably in a limited number. Humans are worse than hunters and have no sense of what’s a good number to exist comfortably. They never consider it. I am inclined to hope that wws would be careful about their numbers for several reasons:
Don’t have enough to be noticed, and therefore caught
Don’t have to many to support in the locale
One bad seed and we’re all mobile bonfires. Be careful whom you choose
We’re a family and we have to live together. Be careful whom you choose

Accidental Murders — yup. In canine and human societies we have assholes. There are going to be jerks on both sides of the fence, as well as other personality weaknesses. So you could have accidents and “accidents”.

He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother — I would think with a pack mentality, that if you turned someone you’d be held responsible for them. At least in the short run. If wws are careful who joins the ranks, then they’d really like the new recruit and would want to mentor them along.

Curse or Blessing — I think it’s a curse at first, and you get used to it. If wws turn into mindless killing machines every time the moon’s full, then they’re not going to last long, and how have they stayed a secret so long? If they’ve lasted thousands of years undiscovered, or even hundreds, then I would think they have some control over their canine form. Just how I see it.

Bitten or Born — While I liked the whole “born’ explanation that White Wolf had, I thought it was very cool. The recessive gene idea was fun to work with. But I’m not sure I’m comfortable about it as a whole. Anyone know if there are mythoi where wws are born?

Lycanthropy AIDS? —

Ok, intercourse might infect, but it would be rare. And beg pardon but why would you need to inject semen to infect? If you wanted to infect someone with AIDS, would you think of injecting semen or just blood?

[Figarou]

Anyone know if there are mythoi where wws are born?

Throughout the ages, countless stories has been told about the werewolf. White-wolf may have some good explanations, but try explaining it if you didn't have the technology behind it.

Lets say the year is 1239 AD. Will the people understand you if you mention genes? Of course not. Thats because they didn't have the technonlogy to look at the cells of our bodies. They had different thoughts of the werewolf. If you told them it was a "gift" or "blessing," they will do nasty things to you. And I don't think there was any werewolf fans at the time.

Before you find the "mythoi" of the werewolf being born, 1st find the "mythoi" of when the werewolf fan was born. Without us werewolf fans, there is no werewolf, no werewolf stories, no werewolf films, no werewolf novels, no werewolf artwork, ETC.

[SGrayWolf]

[Figarou]