Attitude Regarding the Change

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:35 pm

Think-Harder wrote:
Dr. T wrote:I think transformation scenes are the best when the character doesn't "embrace" the change and can't control it. Sort of like in American Werewolf in London. He didn't want the change and struggled against it. That is far more interesting to a story than when they can control the change. There's more of an element of suspense when the character doesn't know when the change is going to occur.

It's also best when the animal takes over their mentality, rather than being a human brain in werewolf form.
In some instance that would work, for a wolf cub who is not experienced or old enough to control his change, then yes. But I favor a controlled one. And for a change I'd like the werewolves to not all be feral in their transformed states.

I have always seen the "fight against the beast within" to be one of the most interesting elements of the modern Werewolf. That is probobly the biggest factor that sets a Werewolf apart from, say, a "shapeshifter". Shapeshifters are cool too, but a WereWolf is someone who is forced to be a shapeshifter...whether they want it or not.

akujiwolf · Post by **akujiwolf** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:09 pm

Vuldari wrote:
Figarou wrote:The external ones are Lunaticks.
Wold someone please let this joke Die?...

eh, I agree. I believe this forum has gone a bit off topic...

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:20 pm

Dr. T wrote:It's also best when the animal takes over their mentality, rather than being a human brain in werewolf form.

On that point I don't quite agree. Although I think the introduction of animal thoughts and impulses should have a significant effect on the mental state of the shifted, I don't think it should take over completely. A "human brain in WereWolf form", as you put it, is what a werewolf IS. As one of the films representatives stated, it is not the Wolf inside the Wolf-Man that you should be aftraid of, but the Man. Humans are capable of far fouler acts than wolves.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:42 pm

akujiwolf wrote:
Vuldari wrote:
Figarou wrote:The external ones are Lunaticks.
Wold someone please let this joke Die?...
eh, I agree. I believe this forum has gone a bit off topic...

Sorry, ragabash here. Can't help myself at times.

LoupGarou · Post by **LoupGarou** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:28 pm

I think if he or she has been chnageing for a long time then it won t be painful,but if its still knew to that person that yeah it should look painful,so i guess it depends on how long they ve been doing that.

Starfury · Post by **Starfury** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:15 am

So there's one point I think many of us agree upon. The first TF is uncontrollable. It's after that point that ideas vary greatly. But if this movie is going to be about werewolves as people, then wouldn't it be fair to say that human emotions and morals are going to influence what they do with their ability to change? One person may use it at will for personal gain, to clean up the streets, or just to scare the next door neighbors. They would be using it more frequently and would learn how to control it better. But another person might live in fear, denial, and shock of it, or believe that they were cursed for some terrible sin they committed, and would just accept it and change when they were forced to. And still another could be incredibly stubborn, or pious, or so morally appalled by the idea of it that they would fight tooth and nail (no pun intended) not to become this terrible monster. So as with all things human, the question would be how would you use this gift? That might help answer how much control you would have over the TF.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:07 pm

Starfury wrote:So there's one point I think many of us agree upon. The first TF is uncontrollable. It's after that point that ideas vary greatly. But if this movie is going to be about werewolves as people, then wouldn't it be fair to say that human emotions and morals are going to influence what they do with their ability to change? One person may use it at will for personal gain, to clean up the streets, or just to scare the next door neighbors. They would be using it more frequently and would learn how to control it better. But another person might live in fear, denial, and shock of it, or believe that they were cursed for some terrible sin they committed, and would just accept it and change when they were forced to. And still another could be incredibly stubborn, or pious, or so morally appalled by the idea of it that they would fight tooth and nail (no pun intended) not to become this terrible monster. So as with all things human, the question would be how would you use this gift? That might help answer how much control you would have over the TF.

Very good points Starfury.
For all of those reasons, I think the amount, and kind of controll one would have would vary from person to person.

On a side note, I still don't like the idea that experienced werewolves would have,(nearly), painless shifts. I can see them maybe developing a tolerance for the pain, so it hardly bothers them any more, but considering the extremity of what is happening to their bodies, I think it should never cease to be excruciatingly painful.

Starfury · Post by **Starfury** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:38 pm

Vuldari wrote:On a side note, I still don't like the idea that experienced werewolves would have,(nearly), painless shifts. I can see them maybe developing a tolerance for the pain, so it hardly bothers them any more, but considering the extremity of what is happening to their bodies, I think it should never cease to be excruciatingly painful.

I definitely agree with you. A tolerance for pain is one thing, but the TF being completely painless is really kinda science fiction even for a fiction story, hehe.

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:47 pm

Yeah, a werewolf who has transformed a thousand times before would still feel the pain. It would be a lot less intense than a first shift; they would get used to feeling the discomfert.

A newbie werewolf that was bitten would most likely consider themselves as a freak or monster. But experenced or born werewolves would think or themselves more of a natural species, not just someone with a 'curse'.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:03 pm

Silverclaw wrote:A newbie werewolf that was bitten would most likely consider themselves as a freak or monster. But experenced or born werewolves would think or themselves more of a natural species, not just someone with a 'curse'.

Born werewolves...yeah, I can see that. Experienced ones...only after they have given up hope on the possibility of ever being normal again.
Even those who think it is awesome would get tired of the extra resposibility after a while and wish they could go back to being a normal, puny, less freaky, non-contagious Human again.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:47 pm

The reluctant werewolf is a popular fantasy, and I'm just as guilty. But, what's really interesting is the psychological transformation.

In writing my own novel, I considered the "five stages of grieving" concept--often applied to those mourning the death of a loved one, but applicable to the loss of anything important, including in the case of my lead character's loss of humanity and the belief in a normal, comfortable existance.

First comes shock, which is easy to picture. Then there's disbelief, which is again pretty foreseeable. That's why my guy never bothered to go to an ER or otherwise seek medical help. Then there's anger, bargaining, and despair, followed by acceptance. Not actually said in the novel but part of my werewolves' physiology is a chemical change in the brain that buffers against depression, making acceptance easier.

One of the most fun parts to write was the psychological transformation; even as my character tried to resist his transformation, he found himself becoming more wolf-like in behavior, paying attention to smells, drinking straight from the faucet, and the like.

As for his physical transformation, I did a soft loss-of-control. He did not actually completely lose control or consciousness, but he did shift state of mind. But, the shock of the ordeal repressed memories at first. (The Howling brought up a good point about post-traumatic stress, but the built-in auto-Prozac feature of my werewolves shut down that memory suppression and forced my character to deal with it, since he was himself a werewolf.)

In the end, my werewolves do not have split personalities; they become wolf-like in both forms but retain the essence of their pre-lycanthropic identity.

ShadowFang · Post by **ShadowFang** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:14 pm

Interesting views. I'm going to have to read this novel of yours. (whenever I get time, hah)!

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:40 pm

WE ARE THE MASOCHISTS!

Disturbing thought, but it dawned on me as painfully obvious as I re-read this thread.

How many of us have daydreamed about getting lycanthropy ourselves? Any hands not up? Not many--maybe the occasional curious surfer who happened into this site.

And yet, we love the idea of the reluctant werewolf trying to fight the change. Why do we picture ourselves in our minds trying to fight against lycanthropy, and yet so many of us wanting the thing so badly?

No, I haven't figured it out, either. It's one of those Freudian / Jungian subconscious things to sleep on.

ShadowFang · Post by **ShadowFang** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:51 pm

Hey, I never said I would fight the change.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:34 pm

ShadowFang wrote:Hey, I never said I would fight the change.

What if you were wearing your good jeans when you started changing, and couldn't get the zipper down?

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:40 pm

Apokryltaros wrote:
ShadowFang wrote:Hey, I never said I would fight the change.
What if you were wearing your good jeans when you started changing, and couldn't get the zipper down?

nevermind the jeans.

What if you was wearing your $600 custom tailored suit?

Edit...corrected spelling error.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:46 pm

I dunno if my tailor would be horrified, or pleased over the sudden need of another $600 tailored suit?

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:46 pm

Apokryltaros wrote:I dunno if my tailor would be horrified, or pleased over the sudden need of another $600 tailored suit?

Apokryltaros walks in tailor shop with torn suit.

Tailor: "Whoa!!" What happened to your suit?"

Apokryltaros: "Well....um.....I placed it on my bed then took a quick shower." "After I got out, my pet got a hold of it."

Tailor: *raises one eye brow* "Your chihuahua did this?"

Apokryltaros: "Um....yes...those little devils can get vicious when you are not looking."

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:06 pm

Scott Gardener wrote:WE ARE THE MASOCHISTS!

Disturbing thought, but it dawned on me as painfully obvious as I re-read this thread.

How many of us have daydreamed about getting lycanthropy ourselves? Any hands not up? Not many--maybe the occasional curious surfer who happened into this site.

And yet, we love the idea of the reluctant werewolf trying to fight the change. Why do we picture ourselves in our minds trying to fight against lycanthropy, and yet so many of us wanting the thing so badly?

No, I haven't figured it out, either. It's one of those Freudian / Jungian subconscious things to sleep on.

I have pondered this very issue before. It really does seem very strange to "fanticise" about something, and imagine that you would be fighting against it.

What I came up with is this: It is not that we desire to fight it...it is that we desire to loose that fight.
There are alot of things that we think we would like to do, but normally never will because our human humility, timidness, (and "common sense" in some cases...), stops us.
However, if we were to conveiniently loose controll of ourselves and feel overcome by Wild, impulsive desires...forgetting to care about all those silly things we normally worry about...WELL...
It would be a spirutually LIberating experience. (At least, that would be how it would feel so long as our minds are too ferral to know we should feel guilty or embarrased about what we are doing.)

Does that make any sense?...

Edit: Also...in any persons life, one rarely feels an INTENSE desire to do something. When you do, it is a very exilerating sensation. ..."desireable" even. When the shift sets in, the person would feel an Intense urge to become the wolf. Even if their good sense says, "NO NO NO...", the wolf inside would insist, " Just try and stop me...I know what you really want to do."

Starfury · Post by **Starfury** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:34 am

Yeah, I would have to agree with Vuldari on the loss of control thing. All psychology aside, it just makes sense that such a fantasy would inevitably pop up somewhere in our society. The insane amount of social pressure, stress, rules, regulations, taboos, jobs, money . . . the list goes on. You have to behave yourself all the time, and yet here is this fantasy about completely losing yourself in nothing but primal instinct. Talk about the ultimate stress reliever, where do we sign up?

WolfVanZandt · Post by **WolfVanZandt** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:45 pm

I would think that it would depend on what the movie is about. If it's about pressures affecting Werewolves from within their society, a degree of lack of control might be warranted. If it's about pressures from outside their society, is it relevant?

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