A complete new idea for me.

[Irish Wolf]

This has been bugging me for a while. It's a completely new outlook on werewolves for me and I a rather like the feel of it.

What if there was no changing back? Not really an uncommon idea for a werewolf, there are plenty who are stuck after their first full moon, but what if it took them nearly a month to completely transform?

I have recently been reading a thread about werewolves and people debated over weather they were real or not. One of the most repeated arguments were that it would be impossible to change the body so completely, especially so quickly, and my mind came up with this idea. What if a werewolf wouldn't transform within minutes? What if it took them weeks? A much slower rate of transformation makes the idea of the body changing so drastically sound much more believable.

My point is, what if it took werewolves weeks to transform and they couldn't change back?

I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts on this.

[Wingman]

While a slow transformation does increase the believability of the transformation as a whole, it reduces believability in the survival and continued secrecy of werewolves as a whole. Well, unless they're tuning into full wolves, rather than gestalts. Man-wolves could certainly survive, but they'd be reduced to hiding in extremely remote places that are quickly no longer being quite so remote. The whole Masquerade would be nearly impossible to maintain unless they've got some form of magical or technological prowess that can ensure they stay undetected by humanity.

If they did retain their intelligence and sentience, that would make for some rather bitter werewolves, as their existence would consist of running and hiding.

Unless you do away with the Masquerade, and they can live in the open, or you give them supernatural abilities, such as the ability to create glamours that can keep them hidden, or situate them in a setting where they could stay hidden, such as the extreme north.

I am doing some writing about a similar type of werewolf, set way back in the depths of history, with his transformations being parallel to the cycle of the warm months(or rather the ones that aren't quite as cold as normal). During the brief summer he sheds most of his fur and returns to a slightly more human appearance. By setting the story in this time period I effectively take the cheap way around the problems of a Masquerade, as the majority of people he's going to encounter are going to be the same as him, or busy hiding in caves and marveling at fire.


Overall it's as perfectly valid a system as any other, though most people aren't going to like it for one reason or another, usually being some flavor of the werewolves not being able to turn back into a human when not running around being awesome.

[Terastas]

We actually have discussed this before. And as Wingman stated, as fantastic as quick-transformations are, they are still more realistic than the expectation of a werewolf maintaining his anonymity in full-werewolf form from a population that is so advanced they can use satellites to read license plates. The life expectancy of a werewolf that could not revert back to human form would be about the same length as the average werewolf movie.

[Berserker]

I disagree with Terastas. There are plenty of places for a werewolf to slip into the woods and live relatively undisturbed. Even a relatively high-traffic place like Yellowstone Park, for instance... most visitors there never see a wolf, even though there are now lots of wolves within the park. If a wolf-man wanted to avoid people, it wouldn't take much effort... his sense of hearing and smell, and intuition for the wilderness alone, would aid him. At the very worst, if a person does catch a glimpse of him, he gets relegated to Urban Legend status. Was it a bear? A big dog? What was it? Yeah everyone has cell-phone cameras these days, but no one takes a conspiracy theorist seriously. After all, they still haven't found the Beast of Bray Road.

Of course I'm talking about a single occurrence, not a whole pack.

[Terastas]

I disagree with Terastas. There are plenty of places for a werewolf to slip into the woods and live relatively undisturbed. Even a relatively high-traffic place like Yellowstone Park, for instance... most visitors there never see a wolf, even though there are now lots of wolves within the park.

And yet we still know that there are wolves in Yellowstone even though we personally do not always see them. Just because the wolves can avoid being seen by a family of fatties from Greenwich that won't stray fifty feet away from their camper doesn't mean they can go unseen by the other six billion human beings they're sharing the planet with.

[Berserker]

I wouldn't overestimate the amount of attention humans pay to their world. If a lunatic can actively send mail bombs and publish manifestos for 7 years from a shack in the woods without being found, and people even knew he was out there... it stands to reason that a quiet and unobtrusive creature can inhabit the woods indefinitely. Not running, not even really hiding... just out of sight.

[Terastas]

I wouldn't overestimate the amount of attention humans pay to their world. If a lunatic can actively send mail bombs and publish manifestos for 7 years from a shack in the woods without being found, and people even knew he was out there... it stands to reason that a quiet and unobtrusive creature can inhabit the woods indefinitely. Not running, not even really hiding... just out of sight.

You're forgetting the difference which you yourself personally illustrated when you said the underlined part.

People knew exactly where Theodore Kaczynski was. They just didn't know what he was doing out there. You could look at Kaczynski and not know you were looking at the Unabomber.

The same cannot be said of a werewolf, especially one incapable of reverting to human form. The only way a werewolf could survive in this day and age would be if it could, at least on occasion, pass for human. Then the werewolf could be observed but disregarded the same way the Unabomber often was.

[RedEye]

Just to break this deadlock, let's throw in a Classic counter:

An Underground city. That's where Werewolves and Failed Liberals hide out, if they don't go to California and run for office.

And I mean both groups...

[Terastas]

Just to break this deadlock, let's throw in a Classic counter:

An Underground city. That's where Werewolves and Failed Liberals hide out

*nods* The ones that don't mind being neighbors with the Penguin and the Ninja Turtles.

[Scott Gardener]

This approach certainly reinvents a lot of what lycanthropy entails. (Ack; the pun was not intentional.) Berzerker's Children of the Storm worked with that premise, that it's a one-way trip.

[Aki]

I'm not particularly a fan of the the premise myself. It presents a lot of logistical problems (hiding a population of any significant size, growing said population to replace any losses, survival in case of being found out, etc.

And well, I've always found the whole double-life thing and shapeshifting to be a big part of the werewolf mythos. Turning into what is essentially an anthro wolf forever doesn't strike me as very werewolfy. *shrug*

[RedEye]

You're right about that, yet the idea is fascinating if set in a larger, more "Classical" Werewolf setting.
Whether the Wulf is a raving nutjob or an upright wolf with a relatively human mind, there would almost have to be mutations, where the Crossing was a one-way street.
I've used it for my Sasquatch population in Wulfen Blood; but the idea of a freak "stuck as a wolf, anthro or not," situation is strangely attractive; and within the mythos- possible in very small numbers. I'm thinking maybe 1/2 of 1% of Werewolves might be that way, myself.

Hmmm...and I am working on another WB universe story...

[Chris]

The Ginger Snaps trilogy worked with the 'slow to change, and no going back' angle. Quite interesting, even if the concept does tend to cut off potential sequels.

[Terastas]

I've used it for my Sasquatch population in Wulfen Blood; but the idea of a freak "stuck as a wolf, anthro or not," situation is strangely attractive; and within the mythos- possible in very small numbers. I'm thinking maybe 1/2 of 1% of Werewolves might be that way, myself.

That's the most I could ever envision it happening: as a fluke that does not necessarily have any effect on the lycanthropic population as a whole. I have two settings I'm currently working with; one is an alternative time line where there is an entire nation of werewolves (so a werewolf may choose to stay in his gestalt form and get away with it), but in the present day setting, the possibility of a werewolf becoming "stuck" in his gestalt form is so rare that it's practically regarded as just an urban legend.

Either way, the survival of lycanthropy is ensured by the human-appearing majority.

The only other way a werewolf in permanent form could possibly survive long enough to guarantee a future generation (and I know this is going to get shot down immediately) would be if werewolves were more human than wolf in appearance. Like the neanderthals of Teen Wolf or the dog-eared people from Hyper Police. And I already know what you're going to say and I thoroughly agree: Those were both some pretty crappy werewolves.

[RedEye]

Actually, that's not such a bad idea, Terastas.

In Teen Wolf; if he went to the barber, he might not be so wolfy looking. Ugly as a mud fence, yes: but Wulf? Don't think so.

He'd resemble one of those Geico cavemen.

[Leonca~]

Ginger Snaps was the first thing that came to mind for me too. I think it showed pretty well just how difficult it would be. Imagine if your body is not only slowly changing but your mind too. Unstable, confused or aggressive behavior combined with a slow physical change would make survival difficult.

You do occasionally see the one-way version used in some types of mythological werewolves. Usually the idea is that it is a person or race who gets stuck in wolf form for many years before having the chance to become human again. This fits with the idea of it being a cursed rather than biological origin- it is supposed to suck because it is a curse or you have done something bad and are being punished (think back to the religious atmosphere of the times). These people who are stuck in wolf form had a lot of places to hide though, with the stories often set back in times where wolves still roamed many parts of Europe that they are extinct from now. I have heard of at least one novel written with this concept set in modern times (I have not read it yet but plan to some day). If I remember correctly it is The Wild by Whitley Streiber. Man experiences one-way change into wolf, must run and hide from everyone, and generally sees his life go down the drain.

I did have fun once creating a character who gets stuck in wolf form full time. He moves in with a female werewolf and she passes him off to everyone as her new pet husky/wolf hybrid.

[Terastas]

I did have fun once creating a character who gets stuck in wolf form full time. He moves in with a female werewolf and she passes him off to everyone as her new pet husky/wolf hybrid.

That's assuming they get stuck in a full wolf form, which could be a livable condition as long as nobody makes the connection. Theoretically, someone who was stuck in a full wolf form wouldn't even need to run; he could just wait for animal control to come along, relocate him to Yellowstone and leave him to live simply for the rest of his life.

This is supposedly what happens to werewolves who are exposed by name in the Night Life setting; they get taken to a wolf park God only knows where (some say Maine, some say Vermont; except for the local pack that runs it, nobody knows for sure -- it's another one of those "protection through isolation" things). They live there until they either give up on ever being human again or forget that they ever were human to begin with, then they (again supposedly) go up to Canada to live in the wild for the rest of their lives.

The thing is that, for a werewolf, "succumbing to the beast" as it were is just as frightening (maybe even more) than death. Once they "go North," as it were, they're as good as gone, so much so that werewolves who had to fake their deaths aren't kept track of by their former packmates since they're never coming back either way. To give in to the beast is to give up on life.

Think about it. You could have been human but become a wolf, or you could have died and been reincarnated as a wolf. If you can't remember the life you had before, what's the difference?

At least that's how I would see it. Just as people in the ghetto often become thieves, dealers and killers because people have been accusing them of being such and will continue to accuse them no matter what, I imagine it would be hard for a werewolf to reaffirm himself of his humanity when even some of his fellow werewolves will tell him otherwise.

[Berserker]

Berzerker's Children of the Storm worked with that premise, that it's a one-way trip.

Yes, my ideal werewolf is one who can at first transform to and from his human form, but who slowly loses the ability over time until he has no choice but to succumb to the beast.

[Recycled Human]

This thread gave me some great ideas, so much so I was forced to join!

I totally agree with the werewolves requiring a quick transformation with the longest lasting hours not days. I'd really like to hear about the reasons a back and forth transformation wouldn't be possible.

Granted the shifting of bones or growth of muscle/hands/jaw seem to be the toughest to explain. The wiki mentioned a myth stating the best way to find a were was to cut it open and look for fur. Perhaps this suggests an almost 'wolverine adamantium claws' effect where not only the claws and teeth but also fur and jawline extend on an almost sliding bone. (I know next to nothing about biology)

Also, there's the glamour affect the anime 'wolf's rain' employed. Perhaps a werewolf is stuck in it's gestalt form but uses a illusionary disguise to conceal itself in everything but moonlight?

To expand upon the idea that changing gets harder overtime, maybe it just becomes more painful. Perhaps those who can't stand the pain choose to stay in wolf form.

Anyway, to top off my two pennies I really think the werewolf is a romantic beast (vs the erotic vampire) and the idea of removing the magical transformation removes the romance.

[Moonraiser]

All I have to say is that If I were in a situation where I had the opportunity to become this kind of werewolf, I don't know if I'd actually take it. I mean, I couldn't change back. I have things in my life, people, my partner...I don't think I would do it. Being a (for lack of a better term) "Pack" werewolf is much more interesting. I call it the Pack werewolf because here most of us generally have the same idea as to what a werewolf is. And AB does as well.

[NightWolf6]

I would like to give you one more thing to discuss.
What if the werewolves have lost the ability to change or never had the ability to begin with?

If humans evolved from apes then why couldn't modern werewolves be decendants of wolves. I did a little research and found many interesting holes in human evolution.

There are purebloods and the bitten ones. Purebloods can not exist if they are not decentants of previous purebloods and the bitten ones can not exist if at one point in the past a pureblood had not bitten them.

[Terastas]

I would like to give you one more thing to discuss.
What if the werewolves have lost the ability to change or never had the ability to begin with?

If humans evolved from apes then why couldn't modern werewolves be decendants of wolves. I did a little research and found many interesting holes in human evolution.

There are purebloods and the bitten ones. Purebloods can not exist if they are not decentants of previous purebloods and the bitten ones can not exist if at one point in the past a pureblood had not bitten them.

Something I once thought of suggesting to try to explain it is to say that lycanthropy originally adapted in the bodies of wolves and evolved in such a way that allows it to recognize any inconsistencies between the physical form and the wolf's DNA and correct it, giving its native host wolves an enhanced regeneration. However, the virus is programmed specifically to recognize wolf anatomy/DNA and is not sophisticated enough to recognize that if it has been transferred into a host of a different species (such as a human). Therefore, every now and then, the virus may try to "correct" its host and "return" it to the form it has been conditioned to recognize as the optimal host: a wolf (creating the European werewolf myth which was partially responsible for the annihilation of the original hosts: the European wolf populations).

This isn't something I'm holding to as a part of my writing guide though. It's probably just a theory I'll have a character throw out as a possible explanation at one time or another.

[Irish Wolf]

Okay, guys. This was very interesting to read and I had no clue it would continue on this long after I left.


Crazy wolf people.