About all these medical test scenarios...

[Sharfan]

Well, then think of it like this: Whenever you are very badly injured, the doctors would normally keep you at the hospital for a few days. So, if you had a very long and deep cut, deep enough to send you to the emergency room, across your abdomen. They would bandage it up, yadda, yadda. How about, if, after just a day, when they go to change your bandages, there's not so much as a scar left. Now, I don't know about you, but I would start to get suspicious, and that would lead to what I said before.

[RedEye]

Yes, suspicions might be raised; but more in the line of "Who messed up in Emergency last night" rather than "Wow, that sort of healing just isn't normal".
People as a rule see what they expect to see, rather than what's really there. That's how some Were's hide-in-plain-sight. They know that some oddness is just going to be ignored, especially if there is a convenient other explanation.
People just won't admit things aren't what they think they are. It's a sort of "Protecting My Universe" thing.
Having to admit that someone like a Werewolf could exist would mess up a whole lot of prejudices (Pre-Judgements of something); and people will go to extreme lengths to keep that from happening. People like predictable.

[Sharfan]

Yeah, you're right on that one. Most people do fit that description. But, there are some people that are very open-minded. That's why I said it was a very small chance that you would find someone open-minded enough to consider the Were as being something not within the realm of human knowledge. They probably wouldn't go too far with it, but, if it were me, I would spend all my energy trying to find the truth in the matter. I might just end up in a ditch somewhere, but that's just how I am. And, I know that there are a few others like me, some might even be a doctor somewhere. Of course, the chance of all that lining up is extrememly miniscule, and probably wouldn't actually be too big of a risk. But, I just wanted to say that the risk is there.

[ChaosWolf]

I now have a strong desire to see Doctor House diagnose a werewolf

Say it with me, folks...

"It's not Lupine."

[DarkOriaes]

The one thing that I've noticed when it comes to most movies or books is that when the impossible happens. People start making up reasons or excuses. So if lets say that someone had a serious injury to the waist or stomach. I'm pretty certain you won't get the same doctor the next day cause they probably switch shifts. So when the 2nd doctor comes in and checks it out. I'm sure he/she will be rather pissed at the joke and thinking nothing of what anyone else says.

If the 1st doctor comes back and starts swearing that the victim really did have such an injury. Everyone would probably think that perhaps a few screws were loose in his/her head and should be probably locked up.

Seen is Believing (But only from beginning to end.)

What I'm always curious about is if we do get a poor sucker of a werewolf who was admitted to the hospital. What would be some of the things, besides the normal body temperature. That they would notice besides the sudden increase of healing? What would the blood look like? Would the bones be shifted a different way? Is the skin not as soft and easy to pierce as before and seem more resistant? Would the hair or skin samples be far more different then a regular human--and if so how? Could they tell right away or will it be shown through experiments.

Honestly, if they come across such odd things, they would just believe that the machine is malfunctioning or that someone doesn't know how to test patients correctly. Also I know that silver is poison to werewolves, but what about different types of medication? Would they work still with werwolves or not work at all? Or in the worst case scenario prove fatal?

You know how they say that chocolate can kill a dog if it eats to much of it?

Sorry with all of these questions. I'm sure probably half of these if not more were already answered and I just wasn't able to find them. ^_^

[Ember]

Something I've been wondering: If werewolves have higher metabolisms than humans, would that mean that they have a higher average heart rate? And they would need more food than humans do as well, right? Any other differences resulting from a higher metabolism?

[Terastas]

Yes, suspicions might be raised; but more in the line of "Who messed up in Emergency last night" rather than "Wow, that sort of healing just isn't normal".

Beat me to it. The doctors would be more likely to think that the ER or responding EMTs overreacted and/or overcompensated for the initial wound. Unless they had taken photographs or some other form of documentation into the werewolf's injury, they wouldn't immediately note it as accelerated healing.

The weres in my Inhuman setting to tend to leave in stitches or wear casts longer than is required for them to avoid that sort of suspicion, but unless they are injured in such a way that a normal human being would not recover from, they tend not to worry about that sort of thing. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure doctors don't keep detailed files about how and when they bandaged something up; they wrap it up and check on it periodically, and if it heals faster than anticipated, that should be a pleasant surprise instead of a red flag.

[DarkOriaes]

But knowing how people will think of it, even if the facts are infront of them. Even if they see it happen, they will think that they are getting punked >_>

Or just continually try to convince themselves that its not possible and that it will be scientifically proven.

[RedEye]

People tend to see what they expect to see and hear what they expect to hear...etc.

You see someone with obviously digitigrade legs and feet, hair down over their ears, who never opens their mouth very wide and has a lot of body hair... and...

You see someone with clubbed feet, in need of a haircut, with poor speech habits, and is un-handsomely hairy.

We automatically defer to what we know as "safe" in what we see and understand, seeing what we expect rather than what's really there.

[Wingman]

I recently saw an episode of CSI(I think, maybe it was Castle, or Criminal Minds) where a blood sample from suspect involved in the crime was analyzed and it had distinctive wolf traits, which puzzled the lab techs to no end. Turns out the guy was taking wolf hormone suppliments for whatever reason, and on a different episode there was a guy whose temperature was a goodly ways above normal.

However, I think it would take a combination of weird things happening before people stop thinking 'Bad judgement', 'faulty equipment', or 'sloppy sample acquisition'. Say, maybe a combination of quick-healing wounds, persistantly abberant analysis results, high body termperature, fast heartbeat, etc. That might be when someone starts to think that maybe the EMT wasn't seeing things, that the hair sample wasn't a stray one from a canine, that the patient doesn't have an infection resulting in fever, that those aren't the result of custom dental work, and that the patient isn't on some drug or combination thereof.

For example until recently I've had a warmer than normal body temperature due to fast metabolism, I was eating about six meals a day, and I've got a nice set of fangs which are in their third incarnation. By that I mean I lost my baby teeth, then I lost my adult teeth, and the current ones that grew in are sharper than the first two were. It happened for all four of my canine teeth as far as I know. I havn't lost any teeth in recent years, so I'm not sure if it's a persistant thing or if it's just a product of me having been young when it happened, around 15-17. I've checked, and it's not just teeth that have moved over, I just went to check and counted 32. That's probably enough stuff for some people to think, "huh, that's different', and maybe start looking at alternative reasons, but probably not enough for people to shout monster and come at me with a pitchfork. I hope. Anyhow, if all that can come together in regular humans, what's the real chance of anyone noticing a genuine supernatural creature?

[Sharfan]

I'm just saying that I've never personally done what you've been talking about. When I see something slightly strange, I review every explanation for the occurence, even supernatural ones. I wouldn't say that it's an overactive imagination, per se, because I also think about the more sane-sounding explanations.

Well, I guess you could call it an overactive imagination.

I guess some would call me childish for this fact, but I see myself as being open-minded. This way, if, I don't know, aliens landed (definitely low on my list of believable occurences, but not out), I would definitely be surprised, but since, at the back of my mind, I never decided that they didn't exist, the shock would be easier to recover from.

But, I'm realistic enough to know that something like that probably won't happen, at least during my lifetime. I just never completely throw a belief out unless it is 100% proven false. Even then, I hold onto the belief subconsciously. Wow, I think I just described a 5 year old. . .

The point remains that you cannot lump the entire race together. Sure, most people would react in a way that's already been mentioned, but that doesn't mean everyone will. Surely, if I turned out like this, others have, too. As said before: the risk is small, but it's still there.

[Terastas]

I recently saw an episode of CSI(I think, maybe it was Castle, or Criminal Minds) where a blood sample from suspect involved in the crime was analyzed and it had distinctive wolf traits, which puzzled the lab techs to no end. Turns out the guy was taking wolf hormone suppliments for whatever reason, and on a different episode there was a guy whose temperature was a goodly ways above normal.

Mind you that CSI isn't exactly dependable when it comes to scientific accuracy (the other two my mother watches ritually, so I'd have heard about it if it was one of them).

What would be more likely to keep a doctor, EMT or nurse from noticing such things is that, simply put, they've all got work to do elsewhere. An E.R. doctor might think it odd that his patient survived that many gunshot wounds or was taken out of intensive care the next day, but he'll have to put that out of his mind completely as soon as the next E.R. patient gets rolled through the front door. Same with the EMTs, who will inevitably have to respond to another call, and the nurses, who will be handling multiple patients and won't be expected to have the same attention to detail as the chief physicians.

With that in mind, the entire hospital staff would only take notice of such a misdiagnosis if it resulted in the werewolf going back into the E.R. They wouldn't be expected to quarantine a werewolf; they'll want his bed and their time free for the patients coming in who will need it. As long as the werewolf's condition wasn't getting worse, he'd probably either be transferred to a specialist or clinic, or possibly even sent home with some diet and fitness instructions. Either way, the werewolf would get handed over to someone else in the field; someone else more likely to decide the original diagnosis was either exaggerated or invalid.

And in that time between the werewolf's discharge from the hospital and his diagnosis from the clinic / specialist, the hospital will have treated hundreds of patients (some of whom may not have been as fortunate as the werewolf), or at least so many that, by the time word gets back to them from the clinic regarding their opinion of his initial hospitalization, they probably won't care enough to question it.

Think about it: When was the last time a doctor ever said "you're too healthy?" You never have and I hope and pray you never will. I hardly think House or E.R. were reliable either, but if there's one thing to be learned from those shows, its that you never question why your patients are healthy; any day a patient can walk out of the hospital on his own two feet is a good day.

[Scott Gardener]

Great idea for a short story...

A guy comes into the ER, saying he's been sick, running a fever and having strange skin eruptions that come and go. His descriptions are really bizarre, but it began after being bitten by a wild animal. I believe all of you already know the diagnosis, but, pressing on... Other people show up, having tracked this guy down to whisk him away from the sight of outsiders, so that they don't find out. This sets up some story conflicts as one of the nurses or a doctor, the lead character of the story, tries to maintain order and at the same time find out what is really going on with the guy with the mystery illness. Finally, at the end of the story, the lead medical character has to hand off the case to the next caretaker at shift change (we'll make sure this phrase gets used conspicuously, too).

Cut to... The pack, pulling off their shirts. "She has seen too much already."
"She's too closely connected. If she goes out, it'll draw suspicion."
"Well, we could use a medical expert. Looks like we'll have to... Bring her in."

The lead character slumps out towards her car, throwing up her arms with a sigh, looking at the evening sky and the moon on the horizon.

"I swear, I will never, ever do another shift on a full moon." moments later, wolves surround her. She gasps speechless as one stands upright, now a creature that is neither wolf nor human, but something in between. She cannot flee fast enough, and moments later, she is clutching a bite wound on her shoulder...

Could be the back story of the nurse characterr in Freeborn... Maybe my first fan fic.

[ChaosWolf]

Cut to... The pack, pulling off their shirts. "She has seen too much already."
"She's too closely connected. If she goes out, it'll draw suspicion."
"Well, we could use a medical expert. Looks like we'll have to... Bring her in."

Kinda reminds me of the ending of the first MIB movie.

[Scott Gardener]

I just had this image of a physician ordering blood labwork to screen for lycanthropy; a few minutes later, a panic-stricken, dishevelled lab tech with torn and tattered scrubs runs out, slamming the door behind him. "Lycanthropy screen was positive!"

[Volkodlak]

i hava a question shouldnt WWs high body temperature,imune system and fast methabolism couse problems with medicine and pain killers like neutralizing them or use them too fast?

about DNA:if WWs are magical no difrence.
virus based: DNA would modify because its like program code for your body and so it neded too be changed too allow and execute body change but will it modify your existing 23 pairs of chromosones or modify and add new ones because wolf has 78 pairs i dont know, so if you do DNA test pray that they think its faulty equipment.

[Terastas]

i hava a question shouldnt WWs high body temperature,imune system and fast methabolism couse problems with medicine and pain killers like neutralizing them or use them too fast?

I wrote that the general response to anything that does anything to alter the body's chemical composition, including medicine, is generally treated as a toxin and rejected by the werewolf's body. So most werewolves, when given medicine, will start sweating, vomit and/or get the runs shortly afterwards.

None of which would be considered uncommon, even less so in a hospital setting. Heck, most nurses would probably consider you to be in good condition if you didn't have a negative reaction to your tapioca pudding. Depending on how he reacted negatively, they may switch over to a different drug, administer a smaller dosage, or just continue with the prescribed drug and dosage with added precautions to deal with the side effects.

about DNA:if WWs are magical no difrence.
virus based: DNA would modify because its like program code for your body and so it neded too be changed too allow and execute body change but will it modify your existing 23 pairs of chromosones or modify and add new ones because wolf has 78 pairs i dont know, so if you do DNA test pray that they think its faulty equipment.

My own take is that lycanthropy actually has next to nothing to do with DNA; that werewolves are not a separate species, but rather are one species with the capacity to appear as another species. So DNA shouldn't play a part in it, nor should any analysis of a werewolf's DNA provide any insight into their condition.

[Volkodlak]

My own take is that lycanthropy actually has next to nothing to do with DNA; that werewolves are not a separate species, but rather are one species with the capacity to appear as another species. So DNA shouldn't play a part in it, nor should any analysis of a werewolf's DNA provide any insight into their condition.

you are talking about magical WWs

[Terastas]

My own take is that lycanthropy actually has next to nothing to do with DNA; that werewolves are not a separate species, but rather are one species with the capacity to appear as another species. So DNA shouldn't play a part in it, nor should any analysis of a werewolf's DNA provide any insight into their condition.

you are talking about magical WWs

Not in the slightest. If the werewolf's species -- their DNA -- did change, I would consider that to be evidence of supernatural influence. But I don't consider people with werewolves to be a separate species. I consider them to be human beings.

I don't consider lycanthropy itself to be magical either. It's discovery would be treated as a medical marvel -- as something that forces the scientific community to completely rethink the existing perceptions of biology all the way down to the base level -- but just because it cannot be explained by science as we know it does not mean it cannot be explained in scientific terms.

[Meeper]

And surprisingly, there are Humans who are allergic to other Humans...

I know someone who's allergic to their own hair .

On topic, firstly Scott, great post . Secondly there's the raw nature of medical professionalism, let's suppose the werewolf facts were isolated during a typical trip to the hospital, or even genetic screening, what professional in their right mind is going to look at those results, put two and two together, and go "Yep, that's a werewolf that is, hey everybody it's a werewolf, perfectly normal, you can go home now", more likely it would be "What the hell is this? Anybody? Any ideas?".

[Terastas]

The only real glaring hole in the story would be that doctors and scientists are two very different things, so your average hospital would not treat someone with an unknown disease. He'd probably get passed on to someone else and given additional analysis several times before they actually conceded to this being an undiscovered disease -- before they started bringing in the actual scientists.

I mean, the scientists are supposed to be busy studying existing diseases like AIDS and Alzheimer's, right? So it'd be a while before they entered the picture.

The first (very quick) diagnosis would be from the responding EMTs. They obviously won't know what's going on, so their only priority will be to stabilize him until they can get him to the nearest hospital. If the hospital staff don't know, they may transfer him to a clinic, if not to another, better equipped hospital. The clinic might, in turn, transfer him to another clinic before the next step is taken, which would be to contact a leading specialist in the field.

And only when that specialist (who probably came in from the other side of the freakin' planet) tells them he's completely baffled would they consider this to be an undiscovered syndrome and finally break out the sciencey stuff.

Chances are, however, that before they get to that point, the werewolf's condition will have changed. Some of his symptoms may have gone away, or he may have developed new ones that will throw the next team of doctors off. And also, every time the werewolf is transferred, that would provide the werewolf pack with the opportunity to intercept him.

And if they did successfully intercept the patient, even in the worst terms, that becomes the FBI's problem, not the doctors'. They, presumably, will still be treating other patients and won't have time to fret extensively over the one that disappeared when the ambulance he was in suddenly swerved off a bridge.

[Scott Gardener]

That's an excellent point; in the hands of EMS or an ER, they're looking for a quick stabilization. As an ER physician, if I weren't one of the world's only speculative medical lycanthropologists, I'd probably misdiagnose a first shift as pancreatitis. Both pancreatitis and lycanthropy (hypothetically) cause elevated amylase and lipase, and a high white blood cell count, and an inordinate amount of pain. The high fever might make me worry about sepsis or some sort of surgical emergency, so the werewolf would end up getting an abdominal CT. As long as the shifting hasn't happened yet, the patient would then be admitted for IV fluids and antibiotics, plus pain control.

[Volkodlak]

ok it depends what kind of healing speed you have if you heal very fast they will be suspicius lets say you come in with broken leg they will give you x-ray and then gypsum and lets say you had another one 3 days later and your bone is healed i would run from hospital or deny tests.

[Meeper]

ok it depends what kind of healing speed you have if you heal very fast they will be suspicius lets say you come in with broken leg they will give you x-ray and then gypsum and lets say you had another one 3 days later and your bone is healed i would run from hospital or deny tests.

Wound healing would be the most likely to give you away, not bone injury, there's two reasons: Firstly surface injuries are more readily observed than bone injuries, and secondly x-ray exposure is fairly strictly rationed for patient health reasons, it's used sparingly to detect otherwise undetectable, or difficult to detect internal injuries, and only used for monitoring these conditions if absolutely necessary. In the case of bone, once an injury is detected, the doctors already know what to do and how long it takes to heal, they're not going to subject a patient to another dose of x-rays without good reason, for example persistent injury because of fragile bones or poor healing, which it's reasonable to assume a werewolf won't have (Or do they? Food for thought).

*Edit* Ok, if you're wheeled in with a compound leg fracture, and the bone has started healing by the time you're seen by the surgeon, I suppose that might put the wind up a few people

But again, without seeing actual evidence of being a werewolf, which would have to be actual phenotype evidence, having physical wolf aesthetics unmistakably on display, who's going to guess?

The Meeper.

[Uniform Two Six]

x-ray exposure is fairly strictly rationed for patient health reasons

You've obviously never been admitted to a military hospital then. I think I glow in the dark now.