Werewolf Classification (A special Name?)

[WerewolfKeeper3]

It would be nice... Hollycrypto?

Hmmm...

(CALL WEBSTERS, I THINK WE JUST FOUND A NEW WORD! And i'm being absolutely serious... that works very well... now...

what about the romance werewolves, hmm? There's like, sixty plus books out right now, all having to do with paranormal romance... of which the human has only read a couple...)

Shut up about that!

(Oh what's the big deal? Most portray them in a positive light, making the werewolves the heros, who get the girl in the end... i like them.)

Yeah... sorry Vuldari, if our intrusion kills your thread...

(For some odd reason, no one seems to want to post after us... )

[Vuldari]

It would be nice... Hollycrypto?

Hmmm...

(CALL WEBSTERS, I THINK WE JUST FOUND A NEW WORD! And i'm being absolutely serious... that works very well... now...

what about the romance werewolves, hmm? There's like, sixty plus books out right now, all having to do with paranormal romance... of which the human has only read a couple...)

Shut up about that!

(Oh what's the big deal? Most portray them in a positive light, making the werewolves the heros, who get the girl in the end... i like them.)

Yeah... sorry Vuldari, if our intrusion kills your thread...

(For some odd reason, no one seems to want to post after us... )

That's an entirely different sub-genre altogether. (EX: http://www.romanticsf.com/ )

... though admittedly, some of those have gone Hollywood, such as "Blood and Chocolate" and "Twilight", making things more complicated.

... or, then again, maybe that is just part of "Modern Hollycrypto". The film version of Twilight (from what I've seen in the preview ... I've not seen it, nor want to) looks to have both the Romance AND the car throwing, fly through the air, crush stone into rubble SuperPowers.

(I don't really know anything about what "Blood and Chocolate" was like though.)

[RedEye]

Well, Vuldari; I did read Blood and Chocolate, and found it to be a formula teen romance story that was predictable from about page two. And before the rest of you descend on us about my dish of B&C, remember--I wrote a romantic Werewolf novel that everybody likes; so it can be done.

If the movie was one-quarter the calibre of the book, I'd have been supporting it, since the Were's in it are not monsters: just different. Sadly, Blood and Chocolate was redone as the book, only in Italy, with a dash of Romeo and Juliette added to kill any potential enjoyability on anyone's part.

So, Vuldari, you missed Nothing...no, let me re-say that; YOU MISSED NOTHING!!!
There. Much better.

It seems that Hollywood thinks they can take a hack novel, give it to a quirky director, throw out everything but the title and the character names, smother it with cheap effects, and make money.
Wrong then, and Wrong now. I was tricked into watching Twilight. Why they didn't just rehire the Buffy cast and shoot the story with them, or just edit about twenty Buffy episodes into a movie--I honestly cannot understand.
Sarah Gellar & ensemble would at least have understood the concept of the movie and told the story better than the people who were shanghai'd into doing this regrettable waste of tape...or film, or whatever they used.

Why can't Hollywood understand that a movie is a STORY being told with Pictures and Sound; and if the story is no good, the picture won't be either.
They used to. I plan to spend the holiday watching films that were worth the stock they were filmed on.

Stay warm and stay critical: we need you!

[Vuldari]

Stay warm and stay critical: we need you!

It's good to feel needed ... I guess.

At any rate, I have no plans on becoming any less critical any time soon. I question everything. What's good, what's bad, and how things should/shouldn't or COULD be done.


There are things I've liked about how things were done in the past, as well as some aspects of how they are done now, but many things in desperate need for improvement as well all around.

I have heard, and don't doubt that both "Twilight" and "B&C" were butchered considerably in their transition to the silver screen. (It only makes it worse when the original books are not that great to begin with).

It's funny how often film makers do that, considering how poorly they are usually received critically when they do that. In contrast, take something like "Lord of the Rings" or "Harry Potter" or "Narnia", which were translated quite faithfully in most respects, even to degrees where it may have confused less fantasy savvy audiences a tad (with a few exceptions where they re-wrote things for no good reason). FAITHFUL renditions of source material like those are generally congratulated all around. You would think they would have figured it out by now. It it was good the way it was written ... KEEP it that way. Don't change it. Your audience likes it better that way. *sigh*



Anyway, this is getting a little off topic.


I mean to possibly use the patterns that film makers and story tellers used in the recent past, and currently (for better and for worse) as the background for terminology that may ease the ability of casual and die-hard Werewolf fans to communicate with each other by providing a point of common ground to reference by name.


[ ... we have plenty of "Hollywood messed up again" rant threads elsewhere ... let's focus please ]

[ToriathFallanor]

I was reading Call of the Wild recently, and the vicious impulsive actions Buck does reminds me a bit of the "classic" werewolf. The word the author kept used to describe Buck was "primordial." And that's what I'm suggesting-- some sort of variant on "primordial."

I've checked the dictionary, and it means original, first, or beginning. Although this type of werewolf isn't really the "first" or "original" (as someone above has pointed out), to modern society, it is what they first think of as the original werewolf. No harm in playing with the general public's beliefs; if they don't think it's wrong, is it really wrong? (think 1984 by George Orwell).

Besides, just the connotation of the word "primordial" helps define these types of werewolves. Primordial brings up ideas like simple-minded (not quite the right term...), instinctive, disorder, chaos, and primal.

Upon reflection, maybe "primal" is better...


I don't know-- this is just something that popped into my mind reading literature.... Which reminds me, has anyone read Heart of Darkness? I hear that it has something to do with the darker side of man-- sounds like what this type of werewolf is: "Even a man who is pure in heart / and says his prayers by night / may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms / and the autumn moon is bright." Maybe someone can enlighten us with a word that the author Conrad uses?

P.S. IMHO, I think Hollycrypto is such an awkward word. It makes sense and all, but the sound of the word, the look of the word, even the root words themselves just seem to make the word fail (to me). Saying it out loud makes me think it's from some sort of Trekkie/comic-book convention. Reading it is weird--though I understand where the roots come from, the words don't mix. Holly, to me, brings up the plant/tree/some-sort-of-vegetation that holiday wreaths are made out of--not to mention that holly reminds me of jolly. The positive connotation of the word just seems to contend with the second root word. Though I see that crypto- comes from cryptology, the actual root means a code or mystery. Also, crypto reminds me of "crypt"... So the first root word in direct contrast with a second root word. [To put my English class to use] the combination of the euphonious sound--sweet sounding, soft-- of holly and the cacophonous sound--harsh sounding-- sounds ugly. I'm sorry if this puts anyone down and if I seem like a jerk, but I just had to voice my opinion. It's probably hard to follow what I wrote; I'm not a very good writer/speaker/communicator.

Oh, and: Yay. My first post.

[Celestialwolf]

I know someone already mentioned the "lycan bandwagon" already, but "Lycan" would actually be my suggestion.

Why? Well, of course lycan is just short for lycanthrope (I know--I thought it sounded stupid at first, too) and the word just came about recently (was it from Underworld?), but generally speaking when people talk about lycans they're referring to the monster-type werewolves, and just keeping that up would save a lot of effort and reinventing of the wheel.

[JoshuaMadoc]

I know someone already mentioned the "lycan bandwagon" already, but "Lycan" would actually be my suggestion.

Why? Well, of course lycan is just short for lycanthrope (I know--I thought it sounded stupid at first, too) and the word just came about recently (was it from Underworld?), but generally speaking when people talk about lycans they're referring to the monster-type werewolves, and just keeping that up would save a lot of effort and reinventing of the wheel.

I hate to say it, but IMO "Lycan" was at its peak of being tarnished into bandwagon status by the Underworld series.

[Vuldari]

I was reading Call of the Wild recently, and the vicious impulsive actions Buck does reminds me a bit of the "classic" werewolf. The word the author kept used to describe Buck was "primordial." And that's what I'm suggesting-- some sort of variant on "primordial."

I've checked the dictionary, and it means original, first, or beginning. Although this type of werewolf isn't really the "first" or "original" (as someone above has pointed out), to modern society, it is what they first think of as the original werewolf. No harm in playing with the general public's beliefs; if they don't think it's wrong, is it really wrong? (think 1984 by George Orwell).

Besides, just the connotation of the word "primordial" helps define these types of werewolves. Primordial brings up ideas like simple-minded (not quite the right term...), instinctive, disorder, chaos, and primal.

Upon reflection, maybe "primal" is better...


I don't know-- this is just something that popped into my mind reading literature.... Which reminds me, has anyone read Heart of Darkness? I hear that it has something to do with the darker side of man-- sounds like what this type of werewolf is: "Even a man who is pure in heart / and says his prayers by night / may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms / and the autumn moon is bright." Maybe someone can enlighten us with a word that the author Conrad uses?

P.S. IMHO, I think Hollycrypto is such an awkward word. It makes sense and all, but the sound of the word, the look of the word, even the root words themselves just seem to make the word fail (to me). Saying it out loud makes me think it's from some sort of Trekkie/comic-book convention. Reading it is weird--though I understand where the roots come from, the words don't mix. Holly, to me, brings up the plant/tree/some-sort-of-vegetation that holiday wreaths are made out of--not to mention that holly reminds me of jolly. The positive connotation of the word just seems to contend with the second root word. Though I see that crypto- comes from cryptology, the actual root means a code or mystery. Also, crypto reminds me of "crypt"... So the first root word in direct contrast with a second root word. [To put my English class to use] the combination of the euphonious sound--sweet sounding, soft-- of holly and the cacophonous sound--harsh sounding-- sounds ugly. I'm sorry if this puts anyone down and if I seem like a jerk, but I just had to voice my opinion. It's probably hard to follow what I wrote; I'm not a very good writer/speaker/communicator.

Oh, and: Yay. My first post.

Thank you for the detailed and insightful reply (and Welcome to the Pack).



The "Holly=Plant" thing crossed my mind as well. However, the connection between the word and a "Convention" like setting/feel I think would actually be fairly appropriate for the meaning in this case.

Also ... the word is intended to name a version of the werewolf that most here do not like. It would be appropriate for it to sound a bit "Ugly", and "Awkward", because that is really what the film incarnations of Werewolves are usually like, and how most here seem to feel about them (as they are depicted in films).

"Primal" or "Primordial" would elude only to the mindset of a feral hunter, but not all of the Full Moon, Silver Bullet, Curse and Chaos stuff that is also part of the creature in the incarnation(s) in question.

I would really like to separate the two as NOT exclusively mutual.

(As in ... a Werewolf with Primal impulses and mentality need not ALWAYS be clumped together with the Hollywood/Pop-Media versions, as that could be interpreted in many different ways other than what has become the Cliche "mindless" monster)



Of course, the argument is still open to be made that no name should be given at all, and this discussion need not end with ANY name or word any of us should feel compelled to begin using.

It may very well be that this is a bad idea after all, and we should just carry on describing everything in detail as we have been, rather than inventing more short-hand vocabulary shortcuts.


It has been a fairly intriguing conversation anyway, so far.

[Wingman]

Perhaps it might be easiest to create a checklist of sorts, and a thread containing the assembled masses, and then link to that in some easy way, such as in signatures, or a link as a custom title or something.

As is, it doesn't seem like we're going to be able to agree on an actual name, so a checklist or a list of traits along with tags seems like the best idea. Something like "My werewolves are Type 3 with A, C, D, and F." and then somewhere there's a list of what that means. Not very descriptive in and of itself, but it should work since most people have unique names for their own creations anyways.

[Celestialwolf]

That could actually be pretty interesting--build your own werewolf! Yeah, I'll take an A-67 type 2 please. I'm all for contributing to that thread if someone creates it.

Another thing; has anyone thought to make a Wiki document for the Pack (I don't know how)? It could be where all the different ideas we have about how werewolves could be assembled (majority decides the main details, but would also include "but some people also prefer it this way" type statements) in an easy to read/search format with links back to the original threads where each particular idea was discussed for the sources? That would be pretty useful.

[Vagrant]

Those are two of the best ideas I've seen today!

I think a wiki would be a wonderful idea, authors could drop novel notes in there, so that people can track their progress via a wiki page and comment in a thread, and artists could also have their own wiki categories. Perhaps a wiki tied into a fully blown creative portal would be nice, too, just for all that cross-referencing.

I dig your classification idea, Wingman. It reminds me of some of my earlier days on the Internet, back when the furry code was new and it was actually rather interesting to have one (before everyone and their Dog had one). We could put together a bit of script to allow people to select--via a web interface--the bits that classify their Werewolf, that would spit out a code and there could be an entry box/links for decryption.

So, yes, two marvellous ideas!

Plus, having my own Pack code thingy would mean I could use my signature for other things than just those little Dragons. So ... yes indeed, all for that!

[JoshuaMadoc]

I think giving alphabetical class types on regenerative levels is enough for me.

[Wingman]

I think we should be fine so long as the classifying stops short of Preparation H, which I imagine would be some sort of pre-transformation ritual.
http://www.wikidot.com/
This seems like a pretty good site to make a wiki on, I'm using it to host mine. Though, I don't feel right making a site for the pack. Yeah, I'm not just lazy, I'm thoughtful!

[Celestialwolf]

I went ahead and set up a request for "The Pack Werewolf Guide" wiki here:

http://requests.wikia.com/index.php?tit ... tion=purge

This is only the request page; the actual page should be coming up shortly. I'll create a thread for this once it goes live, maybe even sooner depending on how things work out.

[AreTheyReal...Yes]

Greek alphabet. i.e. Alpha, Beta...Omega.

[Scott Gardener]

Too confusing; "alpha" and "beta" are also pack rank titles in a lot of peoples' worlds. It also implies that the "alphas" are better than the "betas" and that the "omegas" really suck.

[Fenris Lupa]

Greek alphabet. i.e. Alpha, Beta...Omega.

The term "Alpha" is no longer used in describing rank in wolf society anymore.

[Scott Gardener]

But, the notion is grandfathered into shared memory, so the associations still linger.

[ABrownrigg]

This is my blunt mode. ( activate blunt as if I was a werewolf mode)

If yer a wolf yer a wolf.. not lycan, not werewolf not any kitchy tshirt worthy title. Lycanthropy is a human word made up to describe humans that 'think' they're wolves. Alpha and beta and all that are classifications humans made up to describe wolf social structure in the wild.. if yer an alpha, the last thing you have to do is say it.. you ARE it.. and anyone else around you senses it.. (oddly that kind of happens in human society too at times).

Sure, humans might classify using a shiny name.. which is fine I suppose. but amongst themselves? a wolf is a wolf. Just on two legs or four.

I'm not a werewolf.. werewolves do not exist. I'm just a filmmaker pretending to be one to get in the 'zone'..

[Morkulv]

This is a very old topic, but nonetheless I'm going to have to say that I think its very cliché to rename a werewolf to something else (lycans, were's, etc.) and frankly I think it makes a movie look kinda childish to me.

I don't think a proper werewolf movie needs things like fancy names for the werewolves. You could play off the zombie-movie thing where the characters never mention the word 'werewolf'. I think thats a nice approach, but I do consider it realistic for somebody to call a werewolf for what it is at least once in the movie.

[Scott Gardener]

I can picture someone thinking the word but having a hard time saying it--especially the newly bitten. But, I agree--most people would use the word if facing someone who can turn into a wolf.

[Morkulv]

On the other hand, I think it would be realistic to say that not every 'real' werewolf would like to be called a werewolf, because of the relation to the ones in popular (horror) fiction.

[JoshuaMadoc]

On the other hand, I think it would be realistic to say that not every 'real' werewolf would like to be called a werewolf, because of the relation to the ones in popular (horror) fiction.

Nor would they like to be associated with the moon, or any moon-related euphemisms, I suspect.

"Hail, children of the moon!"

"... Don't ever say that again. Please."