Werewolf serial killers

[Uniform Two Six]

i agree but would you explain that your subplot a little im intrested?

Okay. The basic premise of Freeborn is that werewolves exist, but that they're more or less normal people -- who are also werewolves. Basically, they're trying to somehow integrate being a werewolf with their daily lives while still maintaining secrecy. In Freeborn, werewolves aren't supersoldiers, and they aren't mindless monsters. They're plumbers, and truck-drivers, and accountants and such.

Now, all of a sudden, on top of their regular routine of having to deal with maintaining their secret identities as werewolves (on top of the usual human daily grind), now there's some strange werewolf out there basically living-down to the worst preconceptions that regular folk have about werewolves. If they don't intervene, then there's the serious chance that the authorities will figure out that werewolves are real (and very much hostile) and go hunting them. So now they've got this evil or crazy lunatic, who has all of the powers of a werewolf -- and as if that weren't dangerous enough, they're not soldiers or cops. What qualifications does an accountant (even a werewolf one) have for going up against the Beast of Geauvedan?

Maybe he's not crazy (or not just crazy), but rather some fairly intelligent and highly cunning criminal who's using his powers for some cohesive goal.

There's all sorts of possibilities.

[Volkodlak]

nice me like, isnt Tasha sort off bad Werewolf at least i understod AB that way?


we all can agree werewolf serial killer is worst nightmare for other WWs expecialy if attacks are hapening in city.

[Uniform Two Six]

Yeah, Tasha is a homicidal b****, but not the Hannibal Lecter sort of crazy serial killer. I think of Tasha as sort of the trailer-trash you see on Cops getting dragged across their front yard in handcuffs because she's stupid, impulsive, and has no self-control. She's evil, but it's a sort of mundane petty-stupid-evil. She's still a great villain because that sort of person in possession of the powers of a werewolf is still scary.

[Wolf324]

I actually read a book that had a werewolf serial killer in it. My True Self by N.C. East. It was a small part of the story but interesting.

[Terastas]

Three things worth considering:

1) They might not be super-soldiers, but neither is the serial killer.

This isn't like asking whether the Being Human werewolves would stand a chance against the Underworld werewolves. It's two werewolves cut from the same cloth; exact same strengths and weaknesses, with the only difference being that one side is guano loco and the other side isn't.

2) Strength in numbers.

Unless there's an entire gang of werewolf serial killers, the pack will have the advantage of numbers. This is, after all, something that affects all of them, so it's not like any of them will opt out of the hunting process.

And this is the big one:

3) This is something every werewolf with an I.Q. above 50 should have considered as a possibility.

Werewolves may be plumbers and accountants by trade, but they're not going to be plumbers and accountants first and werewolves second. A profession is, after all, something that can change, whereas lycanthropy is a pretty firmly permanent condition.

As such, I would expect all werewolves with their heads firm on their shoulders to want to consider every possible thing that could go wrong and have a contingency plan for every possibility they can think of.

Lycanthropy getting passed on to a psychopath is one of the most obvious problems conceivable, ergo I would expect them to plan for such a lot more than just being picky about who they pick (don't know how it is in Freeborn, but in Inhuman, infecting others by accident is easier than most people think). So they couldn't just have that one policy; they'd have to have a backup plan for when the wrong kind of person does get infected.

To that end, while I wouldn't necessarily expect the sane werewolves to be on equal footing with the serial killer, I wouldn't expect them to be on completely unfamiliar territory. I would expect them to at least have novice to journeyman level familiarity with weapons, hunting, trap making, or anything else that they thought could possibly give them the edge if one of their own went guano loco.

I would also say that the chances of them finding the serial killer before the FBI does would actually be fairly good. Without any concrete evidence like an actual sighting, the FBI isn't going to consider the possibility of a werewolf for a very long time. Meanwhile, for the pack, "werewolf serial killer" is their starting point.

More importantly, they will know who all of the werewolves in the area are. After all, no werewolf could have acquired lycanthropy except from another werewolf, ergo, every werewolf indirectly knows every other werewolf. The pack could identify the problem, rule out the majority of the suspects and be hot on the werewolf's trail within the first twenty-four hours.

Finally, werewolves know how werewolves think, ergo they know how the serial killer may be thinking. They might not understand why she's killing people, but they will have a good idea of her survival strategies; where she might try to hide, when she'll do it and for how long. It is, after all, what they would do if they were in a bind.

Assuming, of course, that she doesn't just go home and put on her daytime facade like all other serial killers do (and like all other werewolves do). Which would all the pack to wrap things up pretty quickly because, like I already said, they already know who she is from simple process of elimination.

For the serial killer to stay unknown to the pack for long enough to be problematic, there would have to be a lot of additional circumstances complicating the matter, such as her having been infected by a werewolf who is now dead or otherwise unavailable for comment, or if some kind of third party were complicating things further.

[Volkodlak]

nice post Terastas

my answer too your three points:

1) They might not be super-soldiers, but neither is the serial killer.
this one depends on witch werewolf we are talking, because there is a lot of diffrent ideas on werewolfs, but i agree with what you said.

2) Strength in numbers.
Well i agree too a point here because there is many ways a serial killer can kill his victims one way could destroy this advantage:
he could just bite victims if they die they die but with those who surivive pack would need too deal with them.

3) This is something every werewolf with an I.Q. above 50 should have considered as a possibility.
-Lycanthropy getting passed on to a psychopath: well guy could be normal before being bitten, but as you said shift is brutal so he can become unstable then something bad happens and he goes guano loco.
-More importantly, they will know who all of the werewolves in the area are: i agree too a point what if serial killer is from europe he would be unknown too local pack untill he start biting people. Pack would not be aware of another WW in area and there is this thing to how do you track someone because plumbers and accountants arent trained like drug,exsplosive and surivivor seaking dog.
-Finally, werewolves know how werewolves think:only if werewolf is behaving like an animal when changed if they are in control when changed this goes out of the window, only trained person who study criminal behaviors or psychiatrist could figure this up.

[Terastas]

Survivors would complicate things, yes, but for the killer even more than the pack in my opinion.

First thing I'd assume is that, since every werewolf obtained their lycanthropy from another werewolf, the pack probably has the process of breaking the bad news and/or recruiting newcomers down to a science by now. So while leaving survivors will cause the pack to have to either put the hunt on hold or split up, it would be at the expense of giving the pack, more likely than not, a new member.

Worse than that, that new member has two things that will make life for the killer even harder:

#1: Knowledge about the killer.
#2: A vendetta.

The survivor isn't just an extra number to the pack -- the survivor is a witness. And if the pack hadn't yet figured out who was the killer yet, they'd know what questions to ask the survivor to help them figure it out.

Werewolf #1: "What color was it's fur? Black? White? Brown? Red?"
Survivor: "Well. . . Brown, I guess."
Werewolf #2: "Okay, so it's not John, Alice or Mindy. What about its teeth? Did it have all of them?"
Werewolf #1: "Based on the bite mark, I'm going to say yes."
Werewolf #2: "So it's not Floyd or Henry either. That leaves Tasha the only one unaccounted for."

With that in mind, the killer should have an invested interest in making sure she doesn't leave any witnesses. Ergo, if I was the pack, my expectation would be that the survivor is now a target.

So it wouldn't necessarily be dividing the pack between hunting the killer and initiating the survivor. It'd be divided between hunting the killer and setting up an ambush at the survivor's home.

well guy could be normal before being bitten, but as you said shift is brutal so he can become unstable then something bad happens and he goes guano loco.

That's a different problem altogether. A savage werewolf just has no control, and by extension, no cunning. Which, frankly, I think would be the expectation for newcomer werewolves; that they would need to shift in a controlled environment under supervision however many times it took them to adapt to it.

how do you track someone because plumbers and accountants arent trained like drug,exsplosive and surivivor seaking dog.

You're confusing tracking like a wolf with tracking like a human.

Frankly, I wouldn't consider a werewolf to need any of their heightened senses or abilities to be able to track down the killer. I'd expect them to be able to do it just by considering their experience and using their imagination.

If you've never seen an episode of Criminal Minds, watch at least the first ten minutes of one. The very first thing they do is put together a detailed profile based on pretty much just asking themselves what kind of sick bastard would do this and how could they get away with it?

No, I'm not suggesting that the pack would be criminal psychologists. They are, however, werewolves themselves, ergo they actually know a great deal about the mindset of their target because it will have plenty in common with their own. They wouldn't need to be master psychologists -- they'd just need to consider what they themselves would do if they were in the killer's position.

This scene comes to mind:

ohn Connor: Where are we going?
The Terminator: We have to get out of the city immediately and avoid the authorities.
John Connor: Listen, I need to stop my my house. I want to pick up some stuff before we leave.
The Terminator: Negative. The T-1000 will definitely try to re-acquire you there.
John Connor: Are you sure?
The Terminator: I would.

Nobody will know what it takes to live with lycanthropy better than someone who has it himself. So even if they didn't know who the werewolf was, they would know what the werewolf would have to do and how they would likely go about doing it.

[Volkodlak]

Survivors would complicate things, yes, but for the killer even more than the pack in my opinion.

i would disagree here pack would have more problems than killer, because its easy too deal with one or two Survivors but more would be a problem and they will not cooperate with pack and they could be placed into witness protection program witch would couse problem to pack and you need too find all surivivors.

As i remember a newbie WW without supervision is high exposure risk so they will need too be supervised so more work for the pack at this time serial killer could leave country.

No, I'm not suggesting that the pack would be criminal psychologists. They are, however, werewolves themselves, ergo they actually know a great deal about the mindset of their target because it will have plenty in common with their own. They wouldn't need to be master psychologists -- they'd just need to consider what they themselves would do if they were in the killer's position.

only if they arent in control and are driven by wolf or primal instincts.

[Uniform Two Six]

Okay, first off:

"So it's not Floyd or Henry either. That leaves Tasha the only one unaccounted for."

Of course it would be Tasha! That's hilarious...


Second, lots of good points. I agree with most of them, now that you bring them up. I would still posit that the average joe is going to be somewhat reticent to get involved if the dude is not a direct threat to themselves. A severe indirect threat (due to the threat of discovery), yes, but most average people are more of the head-down-and-try-to-ignore-it type. That's why if you're attacked in a city (mugged, or whatever), you're advised to yell "fire!" and not "help!".

I also still think that the risk of bumbling across a law enforcement investigation would be something of a disincentive.

[Volkodlak]

we kinda mentioned it, but police and FBI would make packs job harder, because they will investigate this killings too

[Terastas]

Okay, first off:

"So it's not Floyd or Henry either. That leaves Tasha the only one unaccounted for."

Of course it would be Tasha! That's hilarious...


Second, lots of good points. I agree with most of them, now that you bring them up. I would still posit that the average joe is going to be somewhat reticent to get involved if the dude is not a direct threat to themselves. A severe indirect threat (due to the threat of discovery), yes, but most average people are more of the head-down-and-try-to-ignore-it type. That's why if you're attacked in a city (mugged, or whatever), you're advised to yell "fire!" and not "help!".

I also still think that the risk of bumbling across a law enforcement investigation would be something of a disincentive.

True. But we're not talking about average people. We're talking about werewolves.

And even if one werewolf in question is an absolutely selfish d-bag who couldn't give a flying crap about how many the killer has victimized or what kind of headache it's causing for the rest of the pack, what do you think the end result of a "not my problem" approach would be? It'd be that the rest of the pack would consider him to be a selfish d-bag who cannot be trusted for beans. And if he couldn't give a flying crap about any of them, why should any of them be expected to give a flying crap about him in turn?

Worse. They might consider him a liability or a threat. They might even think he's the killer. And why wouldn't they? He's now the one and only member of the pack who doesn't have any motivation to find the killer.

My point being that even a completely selfish d-bag would be motivated to try to find the killer. Like I said before, no werewolf cannot not know (or have known) at least one other werewolf. One way or another, the wrong person having lycanthropy and being allowed to keep it will come back and bite him in the a**.

[Uniform Two Six]

True. But we're not talking about average people. We're talking about werewolves.

Which matters only if acquiring lycanthropy inherently changes who one is (as opposed to what one is).

what do you think the end result of a "not my problem" approach would be?

Again, I get that. It's still a big difference to acknowledge that the guy is a threat in the abstract, versus getting together to go

1. Track down a werewolf that is clearly willing and able to kill you (even being a werewolf oneself would, I would think, still not be enough to make the task less frightening or daunting).
and
2. Actually kill said werewolf in cold blood (a psychological issue unless these guys are regularly running around killing people -- hunting deer once every full moon isn't going to prepare you to intentionally kill a person, no matter how vile).

[Volkodlak]

Terastas im with uniform on this one becoming werewolf doesnt change who you are its just brings your true personality foward, becuse you are very powerful now compared too avarage joe its kinda like if someone wins lottery they change to better or worse, but some mostly remain the same.

for these two points you give us uniform:

1.)i mostly agree, but meybe alpha and/or another member of pack would be willing too hunt, but rest would not be willing too be part of this because of fear.

2.)and if you kill a werewolf you become the same thing you dislike in werewolf movies: a monster

[Uniform Two Six]

... and if you kill a werewolf you become the same thing you dislike in werewolf movies: a monster

Well, not exactly the point I was after... If you were to kill somebody in self-defense, that doesn't really make you a monster (although a fair number of people who find themselves in that situation often wind up falling into a deep depression and even sometimes committing suicide out of guilt). Although if one were to kill in a more constructed theory of self-defense (as hypothesized in the serial-killer scenario), as opposed to direct self-defense, I would think it would feel a little more premeditated and difficult to deal with (regardless of how truly legitimate it may be).

My point was that regardless of how obvious the consequences of doing nothing might be, it would still be serious mental or emotional handicap to overcome to actually get to the point that one was willing to go out and hunt someone down and kill them. A soldier could make that leap -- killing for abstract reasons if called for by duty, is sort of accepted by such people -- but the average person? Possibly, but at the very least they'd shy from the very idea, I'd think.

[Volkodlak]

well you are right so we can agree most pack members would not be willing too take a life of a werewolf or human without very good reason(self-defense), but in the other hand serial killer being cought alive by police and FBI is very bad thing. Besides FBI and police will not like some civilians hunting the serial killer.

[Terastas]

1. Track down a werewolf that is clearly willing and able to kill you (even being a werewolf oneself would, I would think, still not be enough to make the task less frightening or daunting).
and
2. Actually kill said werewolf in cold blood (a psychological issue unless these guys are regularly running around killing people -- hunting deer once every full moon isn't going to prepare you to intentionally kill a person, no matter how vile).

True. But again, my expectation is that, while werewolves may certainly not enjoy the idea of hunting after / killing someone, especially another werewolf, this would be something they would all be made to understand from Day #1 is a possibility.

I'd liken the mentality of the average werewolf, for that reason, to be similar to that of a police officer's.

99 times out of 100, the guy they want to pull over will, in fact, pull over. But just because the odds of someone leading them on a high speed car chase or pulling a gun on them at a routine traffic stop are slim, that doesn't mean the police aren't at least subconsciously aware of it, and they certainly don't neglect to train for it.

If you want a similar comparison, think about the air raid drills they used to do in schools. Or if you're too young to remember that, let Lewis Black tell you all about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWnNDurzp30

Were the odds of such an attack slim? Obviously, because there never was one. Were they genuinely prepared for one? No, otherwise it wouldn't be funny. But they were still thinking about it.

The werewolf serial killer would be such an instance. It'd be one of two worst case scenarios (the other being getting publicly outed as a werewolf) that every werewolf would consider unlikely, would hope they never have to deal with ever in their lives, but would all recognize as a possibility and prepare for it anyway.

No, I don't suspect the werewolves would have a near-airtight contingency plan for if the wrong person gets lycanthropy and uses it to go in a killing spree. But I would expect them to make life a lot more difficult for the killer than anyone's giving them credit for.

In fact, I'd actually consider them to be pretty well prepared just based on the other things they would have to prepare for. There are two problems they are much more likely to have to deal with where their contingency plans for those scenarios could be partially or entirely applied to a hunt for a serial killer:

1: Savage werewolves.
2: Recently infected runaways.

The first step to catching the serial killer would be identifying him/her, which, as I already said, could be easily accomplished by simple process of elimination; by accounting for all the other werewolves in the pack until only one remained. Once they know that, they could track and/or set a trap for the killer the same way they would a first-time shifter who went crazy, or someone who was accidentally infected and then either escaped or avoided being taken into the pack's custody. Which, either way, should be easy enough because, at one time or another, every single member of the pack will have been through what they are presently going through.

Like I said earlier, lycanthropy implies a level of like-mindedness -- that two people dealing with the exact same handicaps would have similar survival strategies. So even though they might not be able to go toe to toe with the killer, I would expect them to be able to find him, corner him, and use their combined numbers to make up for their lack of martial prowess and overwhelm him.

[Volkodlak]

Terastas good post, but serial killers are smart and if he knows that local pack would hunt him he just need too be in city or close too humans, because no sane person would kill somebody with people around and you will have too fight him in your human form because you would try too preserve your secret, but he could change if he figures out hes cornered, because hes not worried about secret.

[Uniform Two Six]

Actually, I'm sort of with Terastas on this one. Serial killers tend to be territorial -- that is they hunt in geographic areas they are familiar with and feel comfortable in. Becoming part wolf, would only increase that tendency, I would think. Now, don't get me wrong; I think an out-of-town serial killer showing up and dismembering people, and the local pack having no clue who's doing it would make a neat plot. Nonetheless, I agree with Terastas that the most likely scenario would be that the pack knows fairly quickly exactly who's doing it, and the big problem becomes what to do about it.

[Volkodlak]

Actually, I'm sort of with Terastas on this one. Serial killers tend to be territorial -- that is they hunt in geographic areas they are familiar with and feel comfortable in. Becoming part wolf, would only increase that tendency, I would think. Now, don't get me wrong; I think an out-of-town serial killer showing up and dismembering people, and the local pack having no clue who's doing it would make a neat plot. Nonetheless, I agree with Terastas that the most likely scenario would be that the pack knows fairly quickly exactly who's doing it, and the big problem becomes what to do about it.

i belive serial killer will be out of town, because when werewolf kills his first target local pack would be on him and he possibly wont become a serial killer at all, because he would be stoped or he would be very good at hiding too be able too kill more than two targets without being found and becoming a serial killer, because serial killers have cooldown period between murders.
So pack would be dealing with very clever serial killer even if hes local or not

[Uniform Two Six]

As a plot device for a story (or an episode of Freeborn) that would be the best way to go. As far as plausibility (somehow I can say that and "werewolf" in the same sentence with a straight face), it makes less sense since, as I said before, actual serial killers tend to be very wedded to geographical areas where they are familiar and comfortable. On the other paw, there have been exceptions: Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad (the 2002 "D.C. snipers") were from Washington State, not Maryland when they went on their spree. So, maybe it's not so far-fetched. I agree with Terastas, though on the point that if the werewolf was from the area where the pack is, they (the pack) would know pretty quickly who was responsible.

[Volkodlak]

i think there is a confusion i was talking about stoping or hunting of him, they may know who he is but they cant stop him because he would be smart too be in populated areas and police would hunting him too so they(pack) would have troubles, besides serial killers are smart and if werewolf becomes one he is expert in hiding and avoiding being cought by pack or police.