Werewolves and talking

[Treads Lightly]

It seems kind of unreasonable to assume that a newly transformed werewolf would be endowed with a language that neither the human half nor the wolf half knows.

Wolf language is largely posturing. This type of communication is not as strange as it is may seem at first. People use body language in much the same manner. Our advantage is that we also have an auditory backup to bring in fine details not available to wolves.

Since the weres are a combination of man and wolf, it would seem reasonable that they would try to communicate in the way that they have grown accustomed, with words. But with the physical limitations it would be something that, although they may try, could only master after a long time.

I like Option F.

I can picture the Alpha welcoming a new wolf with the strained words, ?you are among friends here,? or some such short distinct phrase.

[WolvenOne]

Well, I'm just throwing out an example of what a couple words in a wolf language might look like.

A coughing Ka sound might mean, "car."

The you're out hand motion used in baseball could be a sort of, urgent way of saying "go."

Holding up your hand spreading all five fingers wide followed by a tapping of the wrist would likely mean five minutes.

So basically, hand motions and such would be used for giving simple instructions, while simple sounds would be used for things more specific, such as locations.

Emotion, would probably be conveyed by tone, scent, and the position a wolf is holding it's tail.

[Treads Lightly]

I like your like idea of a thrown together language. To me it makes sense from the standpoint of physical limitations of the werewolf, and his or her desire to just ?spit out? what they are trying to say, as opposed to a formal language.

Such a form of communicating could easily lead to miscommunications and frustration. A good chance to bring the audience into the mind of the werewolf.

Emotions would likely be conveyed, as you stated, with body postures, and since humans and wolves both use body posture as a form of communicating emotion, it only follows that whatever nuances that werewolves used would be quickly learned.

[Nouska]

I think a mixture of tail movements combined with a sort of language, however if its, maybe more simplistic growls and other noises when there hunting or long distances. Absoultly NO roaring!

[SnowWalker]

I don't really think werewolves should talk, it seems rather campy to have them do something like that. And why would they need to? If they have enough wolf in them then they would "talk" in other ways that wolves do. scent, howl, growl, barking etc.

~Snowy

[dD]

It'd be telepathy or nothing... Werewolves don't talk IMHO.

[WolvenOne]

It'd be telepathy or nothing... Werewolves don't talk IMHO.

Er, no, no telepathy.

Anyhow, what people are talking about right now isn't really a formal language, but rather a mock language made up of hand motions, tone, scent, body motions, and, of course, the limited number of noises werewolves would be able to produce.

and don't say that werewolves wouldn't be able to make noises beyond the normal, yip, barks, whines and howls. They're not entirely wolves and even though they wouldn't be able to talk, I would imagine that they would have a larger range of noises then thier cannine cousins.

[Silverfang]

Well, I'm just throwing out an example of what a couple words in a wolf language might look like.

A coughing Ka sound might mean, "car."

The you're out hand motion used in baseball could be a sort of, urgent way of saying "go."

Holding up your hand spreading all five fingers wide followed by a tapping of the wrist would likely mean five minutes.

So basically, hand motions and such would be used for giving simple instructions, while simple sounds would be used for things more specific, such as locations.

Emotion, would probably be conveyed by tone, scent, and the position a wolf is holding it's tail.

I like that idea, its rough and thrown together combining both wolf and human language with some sign language, it would work and be interesting to watch

[Xodiac]

In a way the question is moot. The director has said the werewolves won't talk in wolf form.

Still, it's an interesting question. I'd have to say that a werewolf (or other were) shouldn't be able to talk if they're quadrupedal. If your transformation goes that far, your mouth, tongue, voicebox, and possibly brain have transformed far too much for human speech. Story-wise, it just wouldn't look right, either.

If they're anthropomorphic, now, that's a different ball of fish! As we've seen in Rowsby's animation, it can look okay. Even though the head and mouth and such look about the same as they do on the quadrupedal were, it is acceptable because he's standing upright. People won't laugh or roll their eyes; they expect human-like creatures to have human-like qualities, and that can include speech.

I've never been fond of the telepathy idea for animals, though. If they can't talk, they should be stuck with nonverbal communication. Body language, howls, yips, growls, etc. I mean, scientifically there's no logic behind animals being telepathic - often across species! - but not humans. And magically, I'd just say that werewolves are already superhuman enough without giving them telepathy!

[Silverclaw]

I agree that werewolves should use a lot of nonverbal launguage and growls ect. Though I still think they could be able to talk english some. They could still have vocal cords; but words would be harder to form. Talking would be used mostly with a newbie or if really needed. Werewolves proably wouldnt talk very much at all, but still could. Just an idea

[WolvenOne]

Though I still think they could be able to talk english some.

Well, the director seems to be leaning towards no talking. That aside though, talking, probably could be done, however, it'd probably only be done by the MOST experienced of werewolves, would probably be hard to make out, and would probably be very uncomfortable to use.

So I imagine even the most experienced werewolves would avoid talking like the plague.

[Werewolf]

Well I think they should have the ability to speak in werewolf form, but I agree it would be harder for them to speak verbily in that form... but it is something that could be learned and maybe not quite as clear but words could be spoken with practice since talking would be a bit different then while they we're in human form, but with experience and practice it should be possible.

Just like anything they would have to learn how to though, just like learning to walk or then learning how to roller skate, it's still in a sense walking or traveling, not all people who can walk can skate... but with practice and a little bit of talent most people can learn to

[WolvenOne]

When I said that they should be able to talk with a LOT of practice, that was just my personal opinion. The director seems to have decided against any talking so I don't want to sound like I'm pushing my opinion or anything.

Besides, the mock language, really would be fun to watch.

[Nirvelli Shaddir]

Yes i think they should be able to talk , but i have four of my own races of wolves and were wolves and they have their own languages and when spoken don't sound like english at all . I have copys of this language if anyone
wants to learn it .

[Lasthowl]

It'd be hard to talk with a muzzle, though learnable. Definitely not something you could pull off right away.

[WolvenOne]

Yes i think they should be able to talk , but i have four of my own races of wolves and were wolves and they have their own languages and when spoken don't sound like english at all.

The logic behind a werewolf language is that a werewolf wouldn't be able to form the same range of sounds humans could. Without a wide range of sounds, any "real" language is impossible, which is why folks are talking about a mock language.

Plus, if a werewolf in this setting could manage to make a wide enough range of sounds to speak a actual language, I think they'd stick to english, or whatever thier native language is.

[NightmareHero]

For realism, newly transformed werewolves shouldn't be able to speak, but the ones that were born werewolves have learned to do so otherwise.

I can be taught, that's all I'm saying.

[WolvenOne]

I can be taught, that's all I'm saying.

That's not necceserilly true. If werewolves vocal cords simply arn't capable of producing the range of sounds neccesery for speech, then no matter how much you practiced, you wouldn't be able to learn to speak.

Even if they did have vocal cords capable of it, the werewolf muzzle, tongue, and lips, would be completly different from human ones, and may simply not be capable of producing the same sharp tones. Especially when you consider the fact that werewolves are switching between human form and wolf-man form, even assuming they spent all thier time in werewolf form practicing, they'd lose almost all thier ground once they reverted to human.

Theoretically, a werewolf could talk, but it depends on the design you're aiming at, it's not a universal truth.

Anyhow, the director seems to be leaning away from talking, probably because it'd humanize the werewolves too much and make it much more difficult for them to be seen as scary creatures.

[NightmareHero]

I can be taught, that's all I'm saying.

Anyhow, the director seems to be leaning away from talking, probably because it'd humanize the werewolves too much and make it much more difficult for them to be seen as scary creatures.

I hadn't thought about that. But then again who knows, have you ever seen a werewolf in real life talk?

There are otherways for a talking werewolf to be scary, just use imagination, violence, and hatred.

This is all an area of suspension of disbelief, We are after all in the realm of fantasy. I stand by my statement. It would work better for the movie in a story level. especially if one or two of them wanted to communicate something that cannot be by way of body language.

[WolvenOne]

especially if one or two of them wanted to communicate something that cannot be by way of body language.

Actually there's an extremly wide veriety of emotions that can be conveyed without talking, especially frustration. I've seen several classical films where there's little to no talking throughout major portions of the films, and in many ways they come off as more, rough and real.

Take the original Planet of the Apes for example. During a large portion of that film the main character cannot talk at all due to an injury to his throat. During this time, you can cut this characters frustration and despair with a knife. Even after this character regains his voice, he's still the only human capable of talking, yet they still manage to get a fairly convincing romance going between the main character and a slave girl whom cannot talk.

So very few emotions cannot be conveyed via body language, and hand motions and simple sounds should be more then enough to get slightly more detailed things across to the audience.

The only down-side to this, is that it takes a certain amount of skill on both the director and the actors to pull off, which is why you don't see this very often anymore.

Many in Hollywood, instinctivly take the easy way out. A good example being the remake of Planet of the Ape's. It lacked almost all of the emotion of the original film, and took several easy ways out. It even removed the plot twists that rendered most the human actors and the main character silent throughout much of the film.

Instead, they opted for a violent sci-fi action flick with plenty of violence. Though in my opinion the added action and violence did little to replace the emotion found in the original film.

[NightmareHero]

Yeah you make a good point, and now that I think about it, it would sound very corney if a werewolf started talking like a human, but that doesn't rule out the possiblity that they would be able to speak monosylabic words, such as "yes" or "no"

Yeah, come to think of it, let their bodylanguage do the talking, that way we can personify them better as developed characters instead of fictional beings, which would be what talking would do to them.

[tamier]

Three things:
First: I don't think it's been said yet, so I'll say it (I know, ha ha). Studies have long shown that 70% of communication between humans is non verbal. We who have the most highly developed oral ability of all the creatures on this planet - only use it for 30% of our communicaiton.
Second: It's recognized now that dogs actually have a language of about 80-100 words. They are yips, growls, whines, etc. but they use 'em. So there is the ability to make sounds, understandable by your packmates.
Third: There was an incident where they gathered a large number of deaf children together to teach them sign language. All knew various pig-sing language from their own areas. There was a flu epidemic, and by the time the teachers got well, the kids had already developed their own form of communication, their own 'language' that they all now shared. Aren't werewolves intelligent?

Why can't werewolves do what would come naturally to them? Develop their own language, using the jaws, tongue, teeth, and vocal chords that they have? Using iit to back up their non-verbal language like we do? I can't help but think that they would develop one. And a werewolf in human form would understand one in were-form, and translate if necessary. I don't know how well that would come across in a movie, but it only seems a like natural evolution of werewolf communiction.

[Apokryltaros]

Three things:
First: I don't think it's been said yet, so I'll say it (I know, ha ha). Studies have long shown that 70% of communication between humans is non verbal. We who have the most highly developed oral ability of all the creatures on this planet - only use it for 30% of our communicaiton.
Second: It's recognized now that dogs actually have a language of about 80-100 words. They are yips, growls, whines, etc. but they use 'em. So there is the ability to make sounds, understandable by your packmates.
Third: There was an incident where they gathered a large number of deaf children together to teach them sign language. All knew various pig-sing language from their own areas. There was a flu epidemic, and by the time the teachers got well, the kids had already developed their own form of communication, their own 'language' that they all now shared. Aren't werewolves intelligent?

Why can't werewolves do what would come naturally to them? Develop their own language, using the jaws, tongue, teeth, and vocal chords that they have? Using iit to back up their non-verbal language like we do? I can't help but think that they would develop one. And a werewolf in human form would understand one in were-form, and translate if necessary. I don't know how well that would come across in a movie, but it only seems a like natural evolution of werewolf communiction.

We don't want to sit through the movie watching the werewolves talk in their own language while we watch in subtitles.
Subtitles are good for kung-fu movies and European romance, but for horror movies?

[NightmareHero]

Let me add that if the idea of the werewolves AT LEAST being able to speak monosyllabic words is too far of a stretch for some of you, then I will tell you first hand that it has been done in REAL life. I have seen and heard of stories of dogs which were able to speak certain phrases, AND I have even seen a video on ABC's American's Funniest Home Videos of such a thing.....

So its not impossible, or improbable...

[Vuldari]

Let me add that if the idea of the werewolves AT LEAST being able to speak monosyllabic words is too far of a stretch for some of you, then I will tell you first hand that it has been done in REAL life. I have seen and heard of stories of dogs which were able to speak certain phrases, AND I have even seen a video on ABC's American's Funniest Home Videos of such a thing.....

So its not impossible, or improbable...

Maybe not, but hearing a werewolf talk like a deep voiced scooby doo would really ruin the mood.