Are you a suppporter of Canis Lupus????

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:53 pm

I do too, but after being called mexicans countless times, deep down inside I do get annoyed.

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:58 pm

Oh wow shuck you were right this forum does explain alot about rex

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:08 pm

Told ya so man

Maybe that's what it is- just an annoyance deep deep down. We don't want to whiners and whatnot so we just keep quiet and not make a big deal out of it *shrugs*

I don't know if Indians really do prefer being Indians, I've just heard a few say they didn't mind (a friend of my mom's even called herself an Indian, funny story when she was tellin us that). Up to them I guess, I dunno. Kinda complex when you start getting into it

Darth Canis · Post by **Darth Canis** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:34 pm

I actually have considered doing an internship with wolf park. After i graduate from my zoo program one day i hope to maybe even get a job somewhere like wolf park.

Vilkacis · Post by **Vilkacis** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:40 pm

Rex Wolf wrote:Now you understand why I left this bunch of crap in the first place.

I'm sorry, but if someone lies, I call them a liar. If someone is ignorant, I'm going to tell it like it is. If someone is being arrogant...well...you get the idea. How do you explain to someone that they are lying, that they are ignorant of the facts.

These are not insults, they are statements of facts. WolvenOne is making false statements about wolves, and these false statements about wolves are why wolves are being killed.

If you want to read something into my statements that I did not put there, that is your perogative. I can't do anything to prevent you from disciplinging me or threatening me or even deleting my account. It's your board. But what you cannot do, is make an accusation against me and expect me to accept it as truth.

If an administrator of this board is going to misread my intentions, and support someone who spreads lies and claims to have authority that he does not have, then I have no place on this forum, as my efforts to try to help people see the truth will never go anywhere, when I have to fight against the powers that be who unwittingly support anti-wolf rhetoric.

Thank you and goodbye.

First of all, I have no authority to discipline you, I can do little to threaten you, and I do not have the ability to delete your account. Furthermore, I have no desire to do any of these things. As far as I'm concerned, you are completely welcome here.

I did not order you to be polite. I did not tell you that you must or must not do anything. I asked. I only requested one thing. It was not a warning. It was not a threat. I said it would be nice and I would appreciate it if you gave due respect to a fellow Packmate.

I realize your agenda is wolves. You are dedicated, you love them, and it hurts you to see someone do something that you see as harmful to them. But my agenda is different: my goal is to keep this forum a nice and pleasant place to be.

I understand that the fact that he disagrees with you is upsetting. I understand that innaccurate and incorrect information disturbs you. But even if he were an evil SOB out to kill every wolf in existence, I would hope that you would see fit to conduct yourself with maturity. You would do much more good for your cause in that way than you would by hurling insults at him, regardless of how true they may be.

You said that you were merely stating fact and were, therefore, not being insulting; however, I would point out that those two things are not mutually exclusive. If someone is lying, it is impolite to say so. If someone is ignorant, it is rude to say as much. If someone is arrogant, is it so necessary to point it out? No, it is not. Even if all these things are true, you have nothing to gain by pointing that out, but everything to lose.

If you think he is a liar, point out the mistruths, point out the inaccuracies, and back up your statements with the truth. In this way, you can educate the world. But to simply call him a liar and say he's not worth the effort will win no one to your cause and will toss any credibility you might have right out the window.

You may not realize it, but the way you were acting was doing more to hurt your cause than anything he or I said.

Now, frankly, you said that I was supporting anti-wolf rhetoric, etc. In response to this I can only say that I was neither supporting nor disputing either of your arguments. What I saw was two people who were having a disagreement. One was being mature. And one wasn't. I wasn't saying he was right and you were wrong. I wasn't saying I believed him and not you. I simply asked that you try not to be quite so rude.

I do not think my request was unreasonable.

You are welcome here. I think your viewpoints are valid and valuable. I don't want to see you leave.

If you do not think yourself capable of being polite, however, I do not think your stay here will be pleasant for the people around you -- and they will likely react in kind. That is the situation I would like to avoid, and the reason behind my request.

If you feel that it is necessary for you to leave, then perhaps it is, but that doesn't mean I want to see you go, and I'm sorry if it ever seemed otherwise.

-- Vilkacis

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:17 pm

You know, I'm patient but I do get frustrated at being called "anti-wolf." I get into plenty of arguments in real life concerning conservation and protection of wolves and I frequently have the "pro wolf," label thrown at me with some disdain. I put up with it, it's not fun but with so many people on earth it's inevitable disagreements, thankfully the disagreements on this subject with those I know in real-life are typically resolved quickly with a mutual agreement to agree to disagree.

Honestly, we should do that here if possible. I mean, I know certain parties feel strongly about this but it would a shame to let such things continue over such a minor disagreement.

Okay, I will state for the record that I "like," playing the devils advocate from time to time, and on this occasion I felt a need to do so. Maybe it was a bad move. maybe I should have just sat there and emphasized my support for wolves, but that's all in the past.

So, please, if at all possible, lets just move on okay?

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:27 pm

Aww crap, looks like that last post was too little too late. *sigh*

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:42 pm

WoW

Had I known such a big arguement would start on this subject, I would have thought twice before even starting this post

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:48 pm

SabreWereWolfQueen_84 wrote:WoW Had I known such a big arguement would start on this subject, I would have thought twice before even starting this post

Oh...you did no wrong, SabreWereWolfQueen_84. There was no arguement about the support of wolves. Read carefully and you'll see what really happened.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:21 pm

Figarou wrote:
SabreWereWolfQueen_84 wrote:WoW Had I known such a big arguement would start on this subject, I would have thought twice before even starting this post
Oh...you did no wrong, SabreWereWolfQueen_84. There was no arguement about the support of wolves. Read carefully and you'll see what really happened.

Yeah it wasn't really an argument so much as a.... actually I'm not really sure what it was, the whole thing was kinda strange.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:00 am

Well I just didn't like it....The whole situation at all and I have read it several times before and it just seemed so......well I don't know....interesting and very informal stuff it was indeed an interesting discussion

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:20 pm

First, Thank Columbus for the term 'Indians' Being a smart man he was Columbus decieded the world was round and thought going the otherway would get him to Asia quicker, as the americas were not discovered yet, as he landed in America he thought he was in India.

Otherwise I'm not into the idea of American Indians just as I'm not into African Americans. If they are americans they are not african, and if they arn't etheir then their neither! Then from research it is beleived that we all came from Africa.

Secondly, on Topic.

Wolves are quite a topic. Wolves have changed from scrapegoat to beauty. Once hated creature is now starting to be loved. It rules in the wildlife art industry, slap a wolf on some object and everyone wants it, and library shelves groan with the weight of many wolf books stacked apon each other.

Is this a victory of science over ignorance? I think not.

First it was a symbol of the devil and evil, an ugly scrape goat doomed to incorrect stories and humans fear - which leads to hatred. We humans very will did compete with wolves, and wolves arn't much better themselves, wolves have plainly kill another predetor if they have a chance, which is what we are doing. Less compitition, both of us are doing it. Now people veiw them as noble, even more than humans, or often use them as symbols of humans ignorance over wildlife. Wolves have been over romanticsized.

Wolves are not devil nor saint. I like to veiw wolves as wolves, thats it. Once veiwed incorrectly as evil, are now imcorrectly as guilt and romance. They're wolves, thats it, not symbols.

Really now, are wolves a threat to humans?

Biologists have said that wolves do not attack humans, and it is basicly true. Apparently fans have claimed that they 'never have a never will', something the wolf romanticists are fond of. I think its more of a 'maybe did, haven't recently, might again'.

Apparently with the 'wolves have never attacked humans' notion, which is always being tweaked. Some captive wolves killed a worker, so it changes into wild wolves never killed nobody. Now the statement has evolved into; 'There is no confirmed record of an unrabid, non hybred, unprovoked, wild wolf in North America seriously injuring a person'

Wolves have attacked humans, and there are reports of wolves doing so, wolf fans just seem to hold on the the idea that wolves don't attack humans. Theres no need to hold on so tightly, wolves should be added to a list of animals that rarely attack. Which would inculd bears, cougars, and deer. Theres just no need to to cling to such a notion, its getting silly!

Then whos to say that we wern't compitition with wolves in the past, causing killings? Wolves do attack livestock in other countries, infact on the new 'Going Tribal' in Mongolia the person talked about how the wolves have killed most of the newborns that year, (and sadly in that episode killed a wolf). Wolves have also went through a parade of sheep like a chainsaw. They don't do it very often, and it defeintly not a perfered prey, but has happened.

We need to veiw wolves as wolves, not evil demons or noble creatures that will never harm. They arn't evil, that they can very well hurt. We also need tolerance, the only way for wolves to live is for food, and tolerance. Wolves do not control ungulate populations, the prey control wolf populations. Wolves don't need a forest to live, if they have food they can live, all we need to do is not kill them.

I also think farmers, or wolf programs to do that for them, to set a system to protect their livestock. Infact, Llamas actually are swell animals for guarding sheep.

All we need is tolerance and to get rid of the wool over our eyes, from both anti-wolfs and avid wolf fans.

That, atleast is my opinion, and I hope not to offend.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:44 pm

Llamas are good for gaurding sheep? How-so?

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:00 pm

WolvenOne wrote:Llamas are good for gaurding sheep? How-so?

Guarding Behaviors; http://www.llamapaedia.com/behavior/guardbehav.html

A quote from LLamapedia;

"Llamas may react in a number of ways when a predator is sighted. They become suddenly alert and very attentive to their surroundings or to the predator. They may sound an alarm call as a warning to the flock that there is a predator present. After sighting the predator, llamas may walk or run towards the predator they spotted and try to chase it away or kick it. Llamas have been observed to kick and paw at dogs with their front legs, stomp on it and then follow that with a kick by the rear legs. Llamas have killed coyotes which have threatened their flocks. They may also herd the sheep together into one area or herd them back up to the barn or shelter to try and keep them safe. The llama might position itself between the sheep and the predator. A few llamas have been observed to walk the other way when a predator was sighted. "

Heck, just google guard llamas. Llamas mainly protect against Coyotes, because wolves arn't much a problem currently I really don't see any reports on llamas fighting wolves. There has been a report of a llama attacking a cougar, the cougar ran away after almost killing the llama. Llamas are said to dislike canids and will sometimes attack dogs. (Atleast I'm okay with you wolves.)

Around 85% of people who used llamas recomend it, and they save a great deal of money for sheep farmers from coyote predation. Theres a great deal of info here ; http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Public ... PM1527.pdf. Yet also, as said, you can easily google that.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:21 pm

outwarddoodles wrote:First, Thank Columbus for the term 'Indians' Being a smart man he was Columbus decieded the world was round and thought going the otherway would get him to Asia quicker, as the americas were not discovered yet, as he landed in America he thought he was in India.

Actually, everyone (well, those with an education) knew the world was round, Columbus just thought it was less round, and that he would be able to sail to Asia.

Se-gi of the wolves · Post by **Se-gi of the wolves** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:53 pm

I've been a wolf lover all of my life. I have so many wolf stuff.

My grandmother even adopted a wolf pup from defenders of wildlife. I have the certificate of adoption on my wall, I don't "own" the wolf but I help defenders with wolf programs and to help that wolf. You can adopt all sorts of animals tigers, otters, bears, etc. and you can name the animal.

Here is the adoption link:

http://defenders.spacely.com/directedgi ... GID=HADOPT

I have to agree with you Anubis its just so wrong to kill wolves, and I think the govern of alaska should go to hell for letting people kill wolves from planes!

and it's just wrong to kill wolves period!!

I am also very passionate about how people kill wolves.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:01 pm

Se-gi of the wolves wrote: I've been a wolf lover all of my life. I have so many wolf stuff. My grandmother even adopted a wolf pup from defenders of wildlife. I have the certificate of adoption on my wall, I don't "own" the wolf but I help defenders with wolf programs and to help that wolf. You can adopt all sorts of animals tigers, otters, bears, etc. and you can name the animal.
Here is the adoption link:

http://defenders.spacely.com/directedgi ... GID=HADOPT

I have to agree with you Anubis its just so wrong to kill wolves, and I think the govern of alaska should go to hell for letting people kill wolves from planes! and it's just wrong to kill wolves period!! I am also very passionate about how people kill wolves.

I agree and that's why I started this post on wolves because I love the

Se-gi of the wolves · Post by **Se-gi of the wolves** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:03 pm

I'm glad that you started this post SabreWolf I just shows how many people love wolves.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:06 pm

This is great I finaly got the goldenwolf shirt I ordered, its the white wolf spirit shirt.

Se-gi of the wolves · Post by **Se-gi of the wolves** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:11 pm

Good for you Shadow Wulf!

I want to buy some of those shirts. I just finally joined here, but I've looking at these posts for a very long time. I hope people will like me here.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:12 pm

Se-gi of the wolves wrote:Good for you Shadow Wulf! I want to buy some of those shirts. I just finally joined here, but I've looking at these posts for a very long time. I hope people will like me here.

sure...we like you. Have a duckie.

and

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:15 pm

It is sad that people will kill animals for no good reason, especially wolves. Where I live(Michigan) is a natural habitat for wolves but none live in the lower peninsula because they were all killed.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:18 pm

Se-gi of the wolves wrote:Good for you Shadow Wulf! I want to buy some of those shirts. I just finally joined here, but I've looking at these posts for a very long time. I hope people will like me here.

We like everybody here

Se-gi of the wolves · Post by **Se-gi of the wolves** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:21 pm

Thanks you guys! I already feel at home

. and thanks Figarou for the duckie.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:21 pm

We are one big happy family