howling alone

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:02 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:true, but for a scary flick, having a werewolf thats unable to control itself is pretty intensive.

Let me think on that: A slathering mindless beast who may have been a friend intent on killing me with tooth and fang

Or

A cold calculating killer Werewolf who have full control, but wants me dead, is fully capable of using not only his formiable natural weapons, speed and strength, but also his mind and the enviroment, and perhaps weapons.

The second one scares me more. The first can likely be redirected to any schmuck who gets in the way, and can be outwitted without being a genius.
The second one is physically strong, and mentally keen. His prey might as well dig their own grave.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:11 pm

Aki wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote:true, but for a scary flick, having a werewolf thats unable to control itself is pretty intensive.
Let me think on that: A slathering mindless beast who may have been a friend intent on killing me with tooth and fang

Or

A cold calculating killer Werewolf who have full control, but wants me dead, is fully capable of using not only his formiable natural weapons, speed and strength, but also his mind and the enviroment, and perhaps weapons.

The second one scares me more. The first can likely be redirected to any schmuck who gets in the way, and can be outwitted without being a genius.
The second one is physically strong, and mentally keen. His prey might as well dig their own grave.

But there is a certain emotional element to the idea of "loosing controll" that is inherantly unsettling.

Also...most humans are not skilled, trained killers. The average person is far more dangerous as a Berserker than they are as fumbling, inexperienced hunters. ...so the mindless one is the more immediate concern in most cases.

Of course...if the werewolf is a trained, conditioned soldier who knows how to hunt a human being, and that Werwolf soldier has tagged you for assasination, THEN the clear-minded, deliberate one is more dangerous and frightening.

It really depends on if the person who becomes a werewolf knows how to hunt or not.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:24 pm

Aki wrote: Let me think on that: A slathering mindless beast who may have been a friend intent on killing me with tooth and fang

Or

A cold calculating killer Werewolf who have full control, but wants me dead, is fully capable of using not only his formiable natural weapons, speed and strength, but also his mind and the enviroment, and perhaps weapons.

The second one scares me more. The first can likely be redirected to any schmuck who gets in the way, and can be outwitted without being a genius.
The second one is physically strong, and mentally keen. His prey might as well dig their own grave.

I really really really don't want to watch a movie, or read a book about a werewolf who, despite having the ability to turn into a giant, shaggy killing machine, kills with boobytraps and or a gun.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:20 pm

I love killing with intelligence. Not necessarily with weapons, but at least some brains behind the action. I also kinda like it when killers toy with their victims before killing them. A mindless beast couldn't do that. But a cold killer could.

Perhaps the lupine part of the werewolf comes with some good hunting instincts, which could be used in the hunting of human prey. Real wolves (as far as I know) don't just mindlessly charge their victims, they plan their attacks. The alpha gives the subordinates commands as to which way to go, etc. I don't think it's that big of a stretch to endow a werewolf in gestalt form with instincts of this nature. Combine those instincts with human intellect and you've got a very dangerous thing.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:25 pm

Oh, I'd also like to add that I'd be cool with having both a slathering beast and a methodical killer in the same movie. A lot of it depends on the individual werewolf. For example, a new werewolf, or perhaps a mentally unstable one, could be the mindless slashing monster while an experienced werewolf could be a thinking, planning killer. They don't all have to be the same way, though I must admit I do prefer the modernized werewolf.

versipellis · Post by **versipellis** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:49 am

I'm really...howling alone, I see. Anyway I'm glad for all of your replies.
In my personal opinion, licanthropy is a curse, not a gift or supernatural power to use in case of necessity. For this reason I don't see a lot of difference between what most of you called "modernized wewrewolf" and, for example, the X-man Wolwerine (except for the skill to talk, probably).
I love animals, but I prefer to imagine a man turned into an half-beast losing his mind and snarling around, following predator instinct and basic strategy just to feed himself...
Long live Lon Chaney Jr. !!!

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:08 am

versipellis wrote:I'm really...howling alone, I see. Anyway I'm glad for all of your replies.
In my personal opinion, licanthropy is a curse, not a gift or supernatural power to use in case of necessity. For this reason I don't see a lot of difference between what most of you called "modernized wewrewolf" and, for example, the X-man Wolwerine (except for the skill to talk, probably).
I love animals, but I prefer to imagine a man turned into an half-beast losing his mind and snarling around, following predator instinct and basic strategy just to feed himself...
Long live Lon Chaney Jr. !!!

Everyone is entitled to thier own views of what a werewolf should be.

But I don't think Freeborn will have werewolves that loses thier minds and start a killing spree feeding on human flesh. Its already been decided that its not going to happen.

Just letting you know.

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:36 pm

versipellis wrote:I'm really...howling alone, I see. Anyway I'm glad for all of your replies.
In my personal opinion, licanthropy is a curse, not a gift or supernatural power to use in case of necessity. For this reason I don't see a lot of difference between what most of you called "modernized wewrewolf" and, for example, the X-man Wolwerine (except for the skill to talk, probably).
I love animals, but I prefer to imagine a man turned into an half-beast losing his mind and snarling around, following predator instinct and basic strategy just to feed himself...
Long live Lon Chaney Jr. !!!

I love the legends that are like that, and I don't want my werewolf too "modernised". Once they become like Wolverine, the whole lycanthropy starts losing it's effect.

I've thought about it for a while now, and what Excelsia said strikes me and I'll agree with it: Wolves in the wild aren't mindless so I don't think werewolves would be either. I'd rather they stalked their prey and in the story I was working on, the werewolf works on instinct. The ones in my story only kill people if A) the person's trying to kill them or B) they're hungry and that's what they find. I've always thought of lycanthropy as something that sorta took over somebody, making them operate on instinct. I think that's part of what's scary about the traditional werewolf- they don't really realise what they're doing and they can't stop themselves.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:07 pm

Vuldari wrote:
Also...most humans are not skilled, trained killers. The average person is far more dangerous as a Berserker than they are as fumbling, inexperienced hunters. ...so the mindless one is the more immediate concern in most cases.

Who's to say it couldn't gift the thinking killer with the hunting instincts. You've played Morrowind right, and the bloodmoon expansion? The Ristaag (hunt of a big 'ol bear for its needed heart), from the human side of the mainquest as part way through it, one of the hunters who had gone off to your right cries out, followed by a snarl. The guy your with stops and tells you to check it out.

The hunter is found, face down in the snow, dead.

You return to you buddy, inform him, and the hunt continues, as they can't afford to not complete it. Another scream and growl, the hunter to your left, deader than a doornail.

You and your buddy continue on, until the killers appear out of seemingly no where, and you have to fight off the two Werewolves.

Point is: They hunted you down. The guy you're with and the two others had silver weapons. Had they gone in head long, they'd have been slaughtered, as all BM's WWs have going for them is extreme speed and power. ANYTHING can kill them, silver just does it exceptionally well.

Despite being the murderous kind of werewolf, they cut down your numbers carefully. Of course, MW's Werewolf isn't fully-aware, but its aware enough to have strategical abilities. And that wasn't even so detailed a strategy.

Anyone could have thought of that, but the fact is, it worked. It cut the four hunters down to 2, possibly killed the third depending on how well you fought.

Anyone could have made that strategy though. And a killer is going to improve over time.

In the begining, the berkserer is scarier but static, the killer however, will improve.

To think of this like a game: The Berkserker is the NPC with a high level, but never improves, the Killer is a low level PC who's gaining levels. Soon enough he'll be better than the berkserker. And continue on....

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:47 pm

With all the Morrowind refferences one might think this was you.....

Methinks werewolves would fare poorly against proffesional gunslingers.

NarnianWolfen · Post by **NarnianWolfen** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:34 pm

Depends on the intelligence and thinking capacity of the shapeshifter. In the Anita Blake books, some shapeshifters are killed by bounty hunters, and some survive because they're intelligent. It's perhaps interesting to note I think I've only seen one shapeshifter in the books that was actually proficient with something unnatural (IE not tooth and claw). But they can also move at speeds normal humans can't see, which gives them an upper claw, so to speak...I know during the full moon they generally lose themselves to the beast, and only alphas can really control their beast. It's why they're alphas.

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:40 pm

I heard of those books before but I don't have any, and let me correct myself; I ment a werewolf would probably perform poorly against multiple proffesional gunslingers. I think they would have a good advantage out in the open as a werewolf could have no cover and can't fire back with a gun.

Gaunt's Ghosts better polish their silver bayonet blades.....

mielikkishunt · Post by **mielikkishunt** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:11 am

Shadow Wulf wrote:
Figarou wrote:
Akela wrote:Hollywood always makes stuff up and overblemishes the facts. Many Europeans I know refer to inferior quality films as "Americanized"
That goes with food items as well.
yeah, alot of people think that american chocalyte like hershies is the best, but hands down german chocalyte is the best there is.

In actuallity, Swiss is the best(Toblerone), then German(Ritter Sports), but True German Gummi Bears are da bomb. . .

Damn, i wanna go back LOL

mielikkishunt · Post by **mielikkishunt** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:15 am

yes, having an animal who can think like a human, but can kill like a monster is scarier than one who thinks like a beast. A beast would give up if you hid in a house, but if you have human thinking, you'd think of how to get into the house.

My were is in constant battle with her 'beast soul' for control. If she does not give in now and then and shift, it gets stronger, extreme emotions(Fear, grief, anber) will cause her to shift, and when the beast side is out of control, she is almost an uncontrollable killer depending on the situation.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:22 pm

Akela wrote:With all the Morrowind refferences one might think this was you.....

Methinks werewolves would fare poorly against proffesional gunslingers.

*grin*

It is actually.

And of course a WW would fare poorly. Anyone with a melee weapon, like claws and teeth, willl get cut down by a gunslinger. At range that is.

The only way a WW could salvage that one is by having plenty of cover to get to the gunslinger or go full-wolf and rush him, which is a bit iffy.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:26 am

Or apparate to the area right behind him BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!

(I'm shameless I know....*runs to corner*)

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:36 am

Although I don't personally identify lycanthropy with the horrific curse, I won't say that there shouldn't be werewolf movies about raw, vicious monsters. Heck, I've got my own DVD stockpile of them.

I'm instead going to say that that shouldn't be the only kind of werewolf movie out there. There should be representations of both perspectives.

versipellis · Post by **versipellis** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:34 am

Probably the..."essential werewolf" we've in mind is the Hollywood one which created all the stereotypes we are used to, despite the different legends in each country.
Anyway,I really don't remember a single movie respecting the whole tradition made by full moon, silver bullets and curse. For example in "the Wolf Wan" played by Lon chaney jr. the moon didn't appear at all, and the "american werewolf" was killed in London by simple iron bullets.
At the end, it's a matter of personal feelings...

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:22 am

most living things won't like bullets. I think it would be allergic to the same things if it where in human form e.g if it had a nut allergy it would still have it as a werewolf.

In Dog Soilders they shot one of the werwolves in the chest with a shot gun at close range and it just got back up, i don't think that would happen other than in the movies.

23Jarden · Post by **23Jarden** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:30 pm

Have you seen what a shotgun does at that range?! That's completely Hollywood! I don't care if you've got magical healing power flyin' out your wazzoo. a shotgun to chest will do you in.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:39 pm

unless, your within 5 ft of the shotgun blast from hitting you, a shotgun wont send you flying, thats just all hollywood bogus.

Xodiac · Post by **Xodiac** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:54 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:unless, your within 5 ft of the shotgun blast from hitting you, a shotgun wont send you flying, thats just all hollywood bogus.

Who needs physics when it looks so cool?

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:56 pm

yeah it is and I prefer Hollywood stuff sometimes rather than real life.
Like in tha movie "The Big Hit' where the hero starts poping some guys with a 9mm and they go off flying towards the wall

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:02 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:unless, your within 5 ft of the shotgun blast from hitting you, a shotgun wont send you flying, thats just all hollywood bogus.

It will however, knock you back or on your a**. Not to mention give your chest some new...ventilation.

A shotgun may be fairly short range, but it still sends out high-speed miniuature projectiles like any other gun, and thus is deadly or damaging for a decent distance.

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:15 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:yeah it is and I prefer Hollywood stuff sometimes rather than real life.
Like in tha movie "The Big Hit' where the hero starts poping some guys with a 9mm and they go off flying towards the wall

Yeah, that's like Kill Bill! People gush blood from a paper cut

It's a great way to entertain yourself during those long, boring times