Evolution theory

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:16 pm

I think all animals should be treated nicely. They should be cared for on a great way. Primates too.

Now, if a monkey was smart enough to decide between whether apes should be treated the same as humans, I'd treat that guy like a human.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:57 pm

we didn't evolve from chimps we evolved from an animal thats simular to the chimpanzee

Set · Post by **Set** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:08 pm

Actually, our common ancestor closely resembled a rat. It was an arboreal mammal that came to evolve into many different forms after the dinosaur's extinction. Humans did not evolve from monkeys or apes. They're all just in the primate family. As far as genetic similarities, I hear we're quite close to pigs, gorillas, and dolphins. [/nerd moment]

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:12 pm

We evolved from common ancestors. I would add more, but there's not much else to say. CRO-MAGS > NEANDERTHALS!! Who hoo!

Oh, and by the way, we aren't Homo Sapiens like everyone thinks. We're actually Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Homo Sapiens Version 2.0

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:51 am

Evolution all the way.

Of all I've seen, it makes the most sense, and I am confident that Evolution is not only real, but a law of nature.

(BTW...I don't like the Poll options. They don't make sense to me, and are either suggestive of more than just the answer, appear to be redundant, or are clearly indecisive. There is no simple, clear YES or NO option even available. If you beleive that humans and chimps share a common ancestor, then you obviously believe that evolution exists to SOME extent. And the first option suggests that the person who votes that will believe anyting that a scientist tells them, rather than just being a yes or no answer.)

What has been said allready is true...according to the most widely accepted evolution theories (which I have great faith in the accuracy of), we did NOT evolve from apes. ...rather, we are like cousins to apes.

To simplify the concept;

There was great-great grandfather dog-rat. He had kids with another dog-rat, and those kids were all somewhat ape like, but still like their parents. Later, those offspring all had offspring of their own, and all of them were like thier parents, and a little bit like their garandparents, but all noticably different from each other. They were pre-gorrilas, pre-monkeys, and various other ape-like creatures, including pre-humans. Back then, they all looked very similar, but were definately not all the same. In time, all of those had offspring of their own, all like thier parents, but very different from each other. Some lived and some died. Some that lived were early Chips, early Gorrilas, early Lemurs, as well as two offspring of the pre humans. Neanderthal and Cro-magnon. Like the siblings they were, both early humans fought with each other, and sadly, neanderthal died. Cro-magnon lived and had offspring of it's own, and we are the decendants of those offspring.

Replace the individuals with entire colonys and groups of animals, extend the generational timetable by about a billion years (or ten) per generation, and you get the general idea.

None of us have chimps as our ancestors. They are our evolutionary cousins. We do not have chimp or gorrila blood in our veins, nor do any other apes have human blood...but all primates, from tiny lemurs, to humans to gorrilas, all have traces of the old dog-rat blood in us.

...at least...that's how the theory goes.

Also...supposedly, if you go back even further, we share the same Great Great Great Great Great... Grandfather as Wolves and Lions and Tigers and Bears (oh my), and pretty much every other creature on the face of the earth with hair/fur.

In fact...some theories even suggest that absolutely every living creature on the planet shares ancestry with a single form of bacteria-like organism, that spawned (either by freak chance or "Divine" intervention) in the proverbial "Primordial OOZE", hundreds of Billions of years ago.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:51 am

Excelsia wrote:Oh, and by the way, we aren't Homo Sapiens like everyone thinks. We're actually Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Homo Sapiens Version 2.0

That's more of a subspecies thing. Kinda like how dogs are now Canis lupus familiaris since they can interbreed with wolves and produce viable offspring.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:31 am

Lupin wrote:
Excelsia wrote:Oh, and by the way, we aren't Homo Sapiens like everyone thinks. We're actually Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Homo Sapiens Version 2.0
That's more of a subspecies thing. Kinda like how dogs are now Canis lupus familiaris since they can interbreed with wolves and produce viable offspring.

True, but all humans (to my knowledge) in existence at this particular time are Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Not Homo Sapiens. Though interbreeding would be possible, it might be difficult since they are all dead.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:44 am

When they say chimps and humans are "closely related," that's exactly what they mean: that they share a common ancestor. They are two completely different species, but in terms of the evolution of primates, the division of a common ancestor between humans and chimps was more recent than any other. That's why they are considered to be closely related.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:46 pm

your poll ooptions need to be taken out back and shot.

I agree with vuldari- really, evolution happened, is happening. wedidn't evolve from chimps, we had a common ancestor. Also, for the 'treating animals better', that should include chimps, dolphins, and parrots- all are i nthe grey area between sentience and non-centience.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:10 pm

I don't know if somethings should be treated as much as humans. You see, I do think all animals should be treated well, despite the fact that they don't have as much capabilities as us.

Yet what is human? What makes us us?
Truly, I think the thing that makes us unique is speech. As we learn to talk we also exchange ideas, forming religons and just passing on information. If my cat learns how to open the cup of catnip (which they can't, despite the fact its been punctured by all these bite marks.) he can't walk over to the others and tell them how he did it, they'll have to learn for themselves. We also gain a sense of ourselves. I can say 'I am Stephanie.', we say things such as I, me, my, mine, he, she, his, hers, etc.

Yet then, I don't know what makes a human. Yet if they can talk, exchange ideas, and use thought to tink through problems such as this (Rather than learning how to open things.), I'd consider them more. (as I stated with if a monkey can debate on this I'd treat them like a human.)

Just treat animals nice.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:37 pm

I think one of the things that makes us human is the ability to be better or worse than what we are. We can engage in senseless evil, or selfless good. When animals do something that could be considered good or evil, there's some purpose to it, or some logical reason behind it. Humans do evil things or good things for no reason at all.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:58 pm

HUmans do evil or good things for the same reasons animals do. we just rationalise it.

Set · Post by **Set** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:32 pm

Humans are humans because we can come up with absurd abstract concepts like good and evil. If a human kills another human it's evil, if a dog kills another dog it's survival. The other dogs won't say "GASP! He killed Rufus! Ebil! We must avoid/punish him now!" but a human will.

We have this ability to complicate our lives to such an unnessicary extent. We may be the most "advanced" animals on the planet in some ways, but we're also the most miserable.

WereDog · Post by **WereDog** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:44 pm

Reilune wrote:We may be the most "advanced" animals on the planet in some ways, but we're also the most miserable.

yeah everyone would be much happier if they were allowed to kill without risk of punishment.

besides, there are animals who punish theyre own kind when they have done something bad.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:48 pm

Shadowblaze wrote:HUmans do evil or good things for the same reasons animals do. we just rationalise it.

There are exceptions, such as serial killers and saints. An animal generally only kills to assert it's dominance, or to survive, to eliminate competitors, or to protect it's brood, etc. Animals do good things too, such as nursing a member of their group to health, giving them food, and protecting one another. But, it is all for some purpose. Helping members of their group helps the group as a whole, and thus the individual doing the helping is also benefited. There is always a reason why. With humans, there sometimes isn't. A human will kill or hurt another for no good reason. Some humans give to others or give their lives for strangers, knowing full well as they do that they won't be remembered for it.

IMO, animals do what is in their nature to do, for logical reasons. Humans frequently go completely and totally against our nature, for no good reason other than we have chosen to.

Anyway, those are my thoughts about humans and animals.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:35 am

Reilune wrote:Actually, our common ancestor closely resembled a rat. It was an arboreal mammal that came to evolve into many different forms after the dinosaur's extinction. Humans did not evolve from monkeys or apes. They're all just in the primate family. As far as genetic similarities, I hear we're quite close to pigs, gorillas, and dolphins. [/nerd moment]

I've read somewhere that there are people that believe that we are close related too kangaroos.

It sounds really weird, but I believe that we are not just 'another primate-species'. Thats too easy for me, and besides, we don't look like monkeys/primates at all except for the bone-structure etc.). And there are other animals that also have hand-shaped paws and knees, so its crazy to say that our only ancestors were primates.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:40 am

And if you want me too edit the poll-options, just say something that would make better sence.

Merrypaws · Post by **Merrypaws** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:23 am

Morkulv wrote:I've read somewhere that there are people that believe that we are close related too kangaroos. It sounds really weird, but I believe that we are not just 'another primate-species'. Thats too easy for me, and besides, we don't look like monkeys/primates at all except for the bone-structure etc.). And there are other animals that also have hand-shaped paws and knees, so its crazy to say that our only ancestors were primates.

Everything's relative. If we compared you to a chimp and a wolf, it would be clear which bears more similarity. And while many animals have hand-shaped paws, just about all of them lack an opposable thumb. Like dictionary.com says:

Primate
n.
A mammal of the order Primates, which includes the anthropoids and prosimians, characterized by refined development of the hands and feet, a shortened snout, and a large brain.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:47 am

Lol. I didn't say we evolved from wolves.

But not everyone with opposable thumbs are related to monkeys.

Merrypaws · Post by **Merrypaws** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:56 am

Morkulv wrote:Lol. I didn't say we evolved from wolves. But not everyone with opposable thumbs are related to monkeys.

I so know I'm gonna sound like a snobby b****...

Actually, yes they are. In fact, all animals on this planet are related to one another in the broad scale of things. Of course not in the same way as say, I'm related to my cousin, but if we go back far enough it's possible to find a common ancestor to just about any two species. We all came from the same pre-goo after all.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:56 am

Morkulv wrote:Lol. I didn't say we evolved from wolves. But not everyone with opposable thumbs are related to monkeys.

Everything's related if you go back far enough, but we share a lot of other things with primates, like fingernails, eye orbits, and the gene SRY which determines maleness (it's the Testis-determining factor.) SRY doesn't exist in most mammals, in those animals, UBE1 (which we don't have) ends up dertmining sex.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:05 am

Yay I'm related to a wolf!!

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:44 am

Morkulv wrote:Yay I'm related to a wolf!!

And my cat, yeast, dolphins, vancomycin-resistant Staphylococcus Aureus, that weird bug you sqaushed yesterday, sharks, the naked mole rat, owls, orangutans, and that really ugly dog in the VS thread.

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