Werewolves in reality

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:06 pm

Figarou wrote:Lets say there is a machine just like the one in "The Fly" and "The Fly 2" But in order for it to work, a real wolf has to be in one of the pods. After the fusion, you're a werewolf. But not a shifting one. You need the machine to change back to a normal human. But what about the wolf? Maybe he didn't want to fuse with you. It could try to fight its way out. Maybe take control at some point. Its not easy having 2 minds in one body. Would you go for that?

Hell, no.
As I remember, that result was a mistake and the outcome was painful and horrific for the subject. There was also a good deal of degeneration; body parts falling off, nervous system quirks, misfiring synapses, his voice changed, et alia. Not to mention that the end result was pretty disgusting. Heck, if I saw something like that, I'd have NO qualms with grabbing my 12-gauge and blowing it to Kingdom Come.

There was shapeshifting but it was progressive and irreversible: one-way trip, faster than the body could sustainably deal with. Imagine the muscle cramps and panic attacks. I think what we're thinking about here is recursive and supportable shapeshifting, similar to development and flexure of muscles. I always envisioned shapeshifting as being roughly on the pain equivalent of chiropractic deep adjustments: it hurts, but at the same time it feels good.

white · Post by **white** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:49 pm

Fur: Myself, I'd go the full route (as usual), and happily move to Canada or somewhere if necessary to remain comfortable. Otherwise, the body just wouldn't be complete.

First/lone transformation: I can't say I'm sure whether I'd make that leap myself, but I'd certainly jump at it if I was confident that I would survive the procedure with intended results. As to the lone side; I envision small, tight-knit communities (or should we call them packs?) of transformees forming in areas with the appropriate environment, much as Shadow mentioned.

@vrikasatma: I'm thinking of the regererative method (vs. nanotechnology which, now that I think about it, is just as likely to be the route taken) being used usually coupled with at least some genetic modification; for example, your disfunctional bits would return the way they were supposed to be from the start. Also, funny thing, I've been doing the same toe-walk thing myself; thought I was relatively alone. I find you can be much more agile, and possibly, with practice, faster/capable of higher jumping, due primarily to the fact that you're using a whole new set of muscles to assist. For the same reason just starting that's likely to be very tiring, but once the appropriate things have strengthened up, there can be advantages. I find it's best to keep it to a subtle level when I'm not actually manuevering, however, as when someone actually pays attention it can garner you some VERY strange looks. Anyway, I can say I do greatly envy those creatures born with a digitigrade foot structure.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:40 pm

Yeah, Ralith Lupus, it can get in the way. I'm getting back into equitation and sometimes it takes a bit of mental awareness on my part to keep the heel from creeping up the horse's side (you have to keep your heel down to ride — dressage assumes the rider is plantigrade).

I did have some trouble at first when I started toe-walking, mostly in the joints, but once my muscles developed they supported everything and it turned out fine. I find I trip a lot less and when I do trip, I almost always catch myself before I fall. The footfall in general is quieter. Everyone around me is going THUD THUD THUD and here I am, toe-walking and it's barely a whisper. Many of my Furry fandom friends toe-walk, also.

I keep it subtle, too. I allow my heels to sink with the step and thus absorb the shock. I also let the ball of my foot roll inside to outside and push off with the outer edge. Most people don't even notice except for exuding a kind of powerful grace that they can't quite pin down — until they watch my feet. It affects the entire stance: you naturally have to square your shoulders and have your head up to balance.

I would mention...fashion makes women toe-walk. Those damn heels! But if they just train themselves to do it naturally, with flat shoes, they get the same alluring muscle development and don't break their heels off or twist their ankles every other step. It helps if you wear light, formfitting shoes, like lace-up mocassins, or go barefoot. I have a harder time toe-walking in my Ugg boots.

white · Post by **white** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:43 pm

Hmm. On the topic of footware-- any suggestions for something that doesn't LOOK to unusual? Currently I'm passing with a pair of old (and thus heavily re-shaped for my feet) but loose 'slip-ons', but they're not exactly ideal. Also, as I'm still living with parents whom I freak out enough already (hehe) 'twould be nice to be something that could be found in a relatively normal shoestore. You prolly already realize this, but the near-silence is also due to the extra joint coming into play; more places for the impact to be absorbed. It makes me wonder why all of humanity wanders about the place plantigrade

Actually, I'm curious. Why DID humanity evolve to be plantigrade?

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:34 pm

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,68962,00.html

Looks like regeneration is a lot more plausible than I thought. I'm going to patch my own werewolves and make their regenerative abilities a little stronger!

white · Post by **white** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:52 pm

Exactly. Funny how the most disagreed-with concept about werewolf regenration (limb regeneration, correct?) is the first aspect to be duplicated in reality

Good luck, Ellen Heber-Katz!

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:02 am

Scott Gardener wrote:http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,68962,00.html

Looks like regeneration is a lot more plausible than I thought. I'm going to patch my own werewolves and make their regenerative abilities a little stronger!

Oh wow!! cool!!! Errr..umm.....havn't I seen that somewhere before? eh..I can't remember. Oh well.

Cool!! Mice that can regenerate!

*cuts mouse in half* *watches halves regenerate into 2 mice*

Neat!!

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:55 pm

I'm thinking about what that's going to do for the extermination business...

Xodiac · Post by **Xodiac** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:00 pm

I'd definitely take the opportunity, if I thought it was safe and that society would accept it. In other words, I might be a werewolf, but I still need a job in order to afford rent. If I thought being a werewolf would prevent that, then I'd not do it.

I've never been one to go out and do the latest thing just because it was nifty.

white · Post by **white** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:01 pm

Who says normal society has to accept us? Myself, I think that'd be half the fun, wandering around and eliciting such reactions. As I've mentioned earlier, things might work best if we formed small, seperate communities. Also, many things could be simplified; for example, when you're equipped to hunt your own food and eat it raw and fresh, if you're living in an acceptably undeveloped area you'd be quite well off, especially with a pack to work with. Given a good fur coat, heating prices go way down, as does the cost of building a home (single pane windows versus gas-filled double pane, uninsulated walls, etc).

However, one thing I think we could all agree on is that it would NOT be done just because it was nifty. It's far too major a change in both physical form and lifestyle. Myself, I'd do it because I feel such a form would both be much more fun to live in, and simply greatly advantageous over that of standard humanity.

@Figarou: Extensive brain damage==no regen, sorry

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:14 pm

this IS slightly off topic, but as far as toe-walking goes, can anyone actually point out the different muscles used? i presume you're talking about talking and running and jumping and such without heels touching the ground; i do that too. I find most shoes too restrictive for my tastes...

white · Post by **white** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:31 pm

What exactly do you mean by point out? I could say that they're the ones associated the raising of the heel, which I suppose is obvious enough, or someone with more knowledge in the area could give specific names/locations, which would probably mean nothing to any of us. And yes, that's what we're talking about

Continuing on the note of shoes: does anyone know of a style that works well with this movement method?

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:44 pm

I've noticed my calf muscles develop with toe-walking. There's some other muscles involved but I've since passed over noticing them years ago and lately, my leg muscles are starting to lose their tone. It's a side-effect of the cancer and the stress it's putting on my body as a whole.

Xodiac · Post by **Xodiac** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:03 pm

Ralith Lupus wrote:Who says normal society has to accept us? Myself, I think that'd be half the fun, wandering around and eliciting such reactions.

Oh, I don't mind people looking at me oddly, giving me second glances, holding their kids tighter to them as I pass. But as I said, if it affects your ability to actually live, meaning if nobody hires you or let you rent an apartment in their complex, then I'm sorry, I'll probably pass. It'd be fun, it'd be neat, but I don't need that kind of constant grief.

white · Post by **white** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:55 pm

I agree that life would be quite hard with such modifications, in a city. I keep referring to rural-area communities of transformees for a reason; noone's going to deny you a job for this if they're similar. Admittedly, some interaction with the mass of humanity will be necessary. One simply can't enjoy all the comforts of modern life without money, and there's not that much that a new body's going to do for you towards that. I suppose one could set up an organic butchery, but ye can only have so many of those in one small town. Work could be done remotely; things over the 'net would work wonderfully, for example, and the possibilities for that are only going to expand as time passes. Other possibilties such as were-operated companies would present themselves over time, until such bodily customization became common enough to no longer be of note enough to have a large effect. Significantly less money would be necessary, for the reasons I've already stated; I think things could work out quite well.

Just for fun; anyone else have some cool ideas for job positions for which a WW would be ideall?

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:49 pm

Probably anything where a good deal of strength and resilience and rapport with animals would be an asset. Professional sports, construction, and animal wrangling/husbandry, for example.

Alpha types would probably do well in charismatic positions like entertainers and politicians.

If the package included heightened/enhanced senses, psychiatry/counseling or even detective work would be a possibility.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:59 pm

Walking digitigrade puts greater pressure on the distal portion of the foot--the far end of the metatarsals. (The "ball of the foot.") The heels are especially evolved / designed to bear the weight of the entire body above it, whereas the more distal portion is not so much so. The heel bone, the calcaneus, is very solid and sturdy, whereas the metatarsals and phallanges--the bones that make up the toes and lower foot--are more varied, being more for distributing and directing weight.

Walking digitigrade perhaps is not so bad as standing digitigrade. That puts a lot of strain on the foot.

Of course, I'm just as guilty.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:12 pm

I don't make a habit of standing digitigrade, either. There's no way my joints could handle it. I do it if I'm alerted or put on the defensive, then I'll do it as a body language intimidation thing...but otherwise, I stand plantigrade, walk digitigrade in close quarters.

If I have a good distance to cover and lots of room, though, I revert to heel-thumping plantigrade.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:33 am

Ralith Lupus wrote:
@Figarou: Extensive brain damage==no regen, sorry

No regen? Then zombie you become!!!

Celestialwolf · Post by **Celestialwolf** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:52 am

Petard wrote:so basicaly you want this http://home.telepath.com/~wanderer/imagine_furnetics/ *sigh* too bad it's not real

Heh. I posted that link once way back when! Anyway...

This is pretty interesting! Who knew all mamals have the dormant ability to regenterate?

And if there was some way to re-write the regeneration to become a werewolf like you said, Ralith Lupus -oh man. I'd be extremely tempted to go for it.

Fig- a werewolf pill? Hmmm. Sounds good to me! When can I get some?

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:03 am

Figarou wrote:
Ralith Lupus wrote:
@Figarou: Extensive brain damage==no regen, sorry

No regen? Then zombie you become!!!

Theres no stopping you figarou!!! You just wont stop creating more emoticons!!!

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:29 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:
Figarou wrote:
Ralith Lupus wrote:
@Figarou: Extensive brain damage==no regen, sorry

No regen? Then zombie you become!!!

Theres no stopping you figarou!!! You just wont stop creating more emoticons!!!

Outwarddoodles made that one.

Veruth · Post by **Veruth** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 pm

Scott Gardener wrote:Walking digitigrade puts greater pressure on the distal portion of the foot--the far end of the metatarsals. (The "ball of the foot.") The heels are especially evolved / designed to bear the weight of the entire body above it, whereas the more distal portion is not so much so. The heel bone, the calcaneus, is very solid and sturdy, whereas the metatarsals and phallanges--the bones that make up the toes and lower foot--are more varied, being more for distributing and directing weight.

Walking digitigrade perhaps is not so bad as standing digitigrade. That puts a lot of strain on the foot.

Of course, I'm just as guilty.

I figured I'd ask the medical type

. Is walking digitigrade bad for you? I know it builds muscle, but does it put a lot of wear on joints or anything like that?

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:13 pm

Figarou wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote:
Figarou wrote:
Ralith Lupus wrote:
@Figarou: Extensive brain damage==no regen, sorry

No regen? Then zombie you become!!!

Theres no stopping you figarou!!! You just wont stop creating more emoticons!!!
Outwarddoodles made that one.

Your like a virus thats infecting everyone!! Now I want to make one!!

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:58 pm

If you walk digitigrade all the time, it can strain muscle groups that are not really ment to support the weight. Look at the feet of women who wore high heels all their lives. The toes are crushed inward and funny-looking, and the feet have large bunions. Then again, a lot of that is from the shoe itself rather than the posture. (Chinese foot-binding comes to mind.) But, it does strain some leg muscles, and you can expect to cramp up from time to time.

But, it won't kill you, so have at it. It's better than smoking.