Limits

[Vuldari]

Gestalt: On average, I would say that the gestalt form should be about as strong as one of those guys in the strong man competitions.

I think that's pushing it. I find it hard to believe a skinny little dude who could barely lift 30 pounds would just magically be able to bench press 200+ pounds all because he got a little wolfy-er. Hell...I'm pretty damn strong myself, and I still can't see a change like that, even for someone like me.

The American Indians could keep up with a trotting horse all day long. All day. Long. That's a cruising speed of, I think, 5-10mph? I had a group of friends who's fathers taught martial arts. They'd grown up in it. One of them got locked out of his third story apartment. No problem, they ALL shinnied up the side of the building and onto his balcony in less than 20 seconds. Really. No big.

Jackie Chan can do some super-human things. Because he trained to. If you know how to use your body, you can do amazing stuff without a cape or snazzy spandex. Expand that to Gestalt form.

There's a serious flaw in your logic here. Those examples you gave all have one thing in common: the people doing those things were TRAINED to do so. It didn't come naturally. They had to go through years of it to be able to pull off these feats. I don't know if you've noticed, but most people aren't Jackie Chan. And those are the people most likely to get bitten.

I would like to add my support to these counter-points.

I think a really weak, small, skinny human would NOT enhance to strength and speed levels above human standards in gestalt form. Thier strengths would increase considerably from what they were before...but not quite to "superhuman" levels, if they were of below-average physical condition normally. People of Average or slightly Above Average physical condition (who regularly excersise and are not anorexic or overly obese) would gain a much more significant boost, elevating them to world class "incredible" strength and ability in gestalt form. At the other end of the spectrum, people who are exeptionally well trained, physically, and are allready near the peak of human physical capacity would gain a slightly lesser boost than "average" people, (because their bodies are allready nearly maxed out and so the transformation has limited further "enhancements" yet to make to the muscle structure), but still significant enough to give these super-athletes abilities well above the capacity of ANY normal Human or Wolf in existance.

So...Weak Humans --> Fast, strong and impressive (by human standards)

Olymic Athletes/ Master Martial Artists --> OMGWTFWOOTBBQ!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Ronkonkoma]

hmmmm, how long you think a werewolf can stay in Gestalt form? and do you think if a ww stayed in gestalt form for too long might there be some adverse side effects when trying to shift back?

like a ww might have trouble shifting the tail away for a while once back in human form, eyes might hold onto that eyeshine a bit longer, pointed ears, sharp looking teeth, taller than normal, extra body hair ect ect

[Renorei]

So...Weak Humans --> Fast, strong and impressive (by human standards)

Olymic Athletes/ Master Martial Artists --> OMGWTFWOOTBBQ!?!?!?!?!?!?

I still stand by my original post completely and totally, but I just wanted to let you know that this particular part of your post here made me laugh really hard.

[Silverclaw]

I think when in gestalt form, their hearing and sense of smell are as good as a regular wolf's.
They would defintily be more stronger, but nothing too crazy. Like already stated, depends on what they are like in human form. Superman powers=no-no.
Eye sight would remain the same, but colors would be more faded. Better night vision.
I think they would be able to jump higher/longer distances. Not like Van Hellsing or anything that dramatic.
Run up to speeds of about 30mph. Faster and more agile when in full wolf form though. And can run for a longer amount of time at a steady pace like rl wolves.
I think climbing things like trees would be pretty easy in gestalt form. Claws could get a good grip on it and all. No wall climbing/dancing on the celing abilitys though

I really would like for the gestalt wws to be powerful/impressive, without coming off as super powered beings. More like a natural, could-be-real, abilitys for the species

[MLhowler]

Not that I think any of you will listen(seeing has I'm the new guy), anything that goes one way, goes the other, therefore, any WW would consume lots of energy just for one transformation, and in gestalt, they would consume more than a wolf or a human...

And about those abilities, well, I think a human would be enhanced a bit, but would show some clear wolf signs (sharper teeth, bigger appetite, a little bit stronger and agile and more territorial, etc...).

In gestalt, they would be faster than a human, stronger than a wolf or a human, and more agile than a wolf (with the hand/paw thing going on), although they would have to compensate for the extra weight in their legs, so basically there would a lot of energy to back up that kind of transformation, so I'm thinking a regular person would probably only transform after a good meal and wouldn't stay transformed more than a few hours, and would return to his/hers regular "state" tired and hungry.

As a wolf, they would be bigger, stronger and smarter, but, a wolf had his whole life to know how to be a wolf, so I'm gueesing that werewolf in wolf form would probably become less "homo" and more "lupus" the more time it stayed transformed.

[celtwolf]

i agree with you somewhat on the human part. i mean, there wouldn't be any physical manifestations of the werewolfishness that would be obvious. i think the more obvious differences would be in their mental states and behaviors, which would be more like a wolf's.
and naturally, there would be strengths and advantages to each of the forms. but i don't think that the energy consumption would be al that much more in a werewolf in gestalt form than in their humnan form. this being because we have pretty much come thi the consensus that the gestalt form isn't all that much larger than their human form and takes up a negligable amount more or less space. i DO agree with you that the change would use up a lot of energy, but it isn't like in a videogame where you only have so much energy you can expend before you have none left. it's more like a realy hard day at the gym or something, where you'd expend a lot of energy.
and about the wolf form, i totally agree. the human mind is a fragile thing and can be amnipulated by many factors. sure, changing into a wolf would be kinda cool for most of us here, but if we couldn't figure out how to change bach, most of us would freak out. eventually, we would get used to our new bodies and probably pick up more wolflike behaviors and start losing our sense of who we 'are' as humans. at least that's what //I\\ think.

and don't worry about the 'new guy' thing. i was the new guy a few months ago, and now look at me! i'm still not really respected all that much, but it's no less respect than anyone else gets around here, save for the mods. welcome to the pack!
~Celtwolf

[MLhowler]

What I meant was that, unlike a videogame, you wouldn't expend a certain amount of energy, but some energy(which is something that would be according to your age, size, "experience", and physical/mental state), cause you have to grow fur, teeth, etc... and maintain them (which is unnatural to a human).

[Grayheart]

What I meant was that, unlike a videogame, you wouldn't expend a certain amount of energy, but some energy(which is something that would be according to your age, size, "experience", and physical/mental state), cause you have to grow fur, teeth, etc... and maintain them (which is unnatural to a human).

Yeah, it's unnatural to a human, but we're talking about werewolves, aren't we?

[MLhowler]

Yeah, it's unnatural to a human, but we're talking about werewolves, aren't we? Wink

Wha-? But I'm talking about werewolves...I'm just saying that a person whose... Nevermind. You win.

[Grayheart]

Yeah, it's unnatural to a human, but we're talking about werewolves, aren't we? Wink

Wha-? But I'm talking about werewolves...I'm just saying that a person whose... Nevermind. You win.

Hopefully I got you right, but you wanted to say that a human is unused to maintain to whole fur, fangs and the like stuff, aren't you? If this is right only a new werewolf would be unused to this stuff - and it would be completely natural to a born werewolf.

Besides this MLhowler!

If you have another opinion about this just state it. No one will rip out your throat for that

[celtwolf]

What I meant was that, unlike a videogame, you wouldn't expend a certain amount of energy, but some energy(which is something that would be according to your age, size, "experience", and physical/mental state), cause you have to grow fur, teeth, etc... and maintain them (which is unnatural to a human).

um,how much energy do you exspend maintaining your hair and teeth NOW? i don'tthink you exspend any energy on that. so why should a werewolf have to expend any energy to keep fur and teeth and the like once they have already grown in? it really doesn't make much sense, does it?

[MLhowler]

Actually, what I meant is that you are growing only the fur and stuff for a limited time only (since you don't actually "own" them). Think like this...
A person transforms. He/She grows bigger, furrier, with a tail, etc. This transformation requires energy, cause the all the muscles, hair/fur and stuff don't come out of nowhere, right? And about the expending energy, well you already spent energy growing them( where do you think went all those rubber duckies a l'orange )

[Grayheart]

Actually, what I meant is that you are growing only the fur and stuff for a limited time only (since you don't actually "own" them).

But a werewolf 'owns' them, since it is a naturally state of being to him/her, isn't it?

[Renorei]

Actually, what I meant is that you are growing only the fur and stuff for a limited time only (since you don't actually "own" them).

But a werewolf 'owns' them, since it is a naturally state of being to him/her, isn't it?

I agree. The werewolf might have to expend energy to grow its extra parts in the first place, but, IMO, once it has already shifted, it doesn't keep expending energy to maintain its body. I agree that the werewolf does 'own' its new parts once it has shifted.

[MLhowler]

But a werewolf 'owns' them, since it is a naturally state of being to him/her, isn't it?

Well, he doesn't exactly keep the fur in his pocket, right? Assuming that you're not combining the regenerating abilitie with the transformation one...

Note: The regeneration abilitie of the werewolf would include the creation of new cells, therefore, I will assume that that abilitie extends to the use of creating the fur, claws, etc.

[Grayheart]

But a werewolf 'owns' them, since it is a naturally state of being to him/her, isn't it?

Well, he doesn't exactly keep the fur in his pocket, right? Assuming that you're not combining the regenerating abilitie with the transformation one...

Note: The regeneration abilitie of the werewolf would include the creation of new cells, therefore, I will assume that that abilitie extends to the use of creating the fur, claws, etc.

But once it is grown the werewolf doesn't have to maintain it - it's already there. And the thing with combining the regeneration-ability with this topic you'll have to explain me a little bit more detailed, cause I couldn't catch your point

Note: Please try to use easy english, as you can see, I'm from germany - maybe it's just a language-barrier

[dnl]

a mental change would probly take up the most energy

[Renorei]

a mental change would probly take up the most energy

Why? I can't think of any reason why a mental change would consume energy.

[Apokryltaros]

a mental change would probly take up the most energy

Why? I can't think of any reason why a mental change would consume energy.

Well, wouldn't it be taxing on your pretty head if you just found out that fleas were sentient, and were deliberately manipulating the events of the world to promote a population boom of their hosts in order to provide more blood to feed on?

[Shadow Wulf]

MY HEAD!!!

[MLhowler]

But once it is grown the werewolf doesn't have to maintain it - it's already there. And the thing with combining the regeneration-ability with this topic you'll have to explain me a little bit more detailed, cause I couldn't catch your point

Note: Please try to use easy english, as you can see, I'm from germany - maybe it's just a language-barrier

What I meant was that to heal wounds, a living being creates new cells to replace the lost ones, therefore I'm assuming the werewolf gene would allow you to use that capacity ( to some extent) to transform.

And don't worry, my barrier is way bigger than yours

[Grayheart]

What I meant was that to heal wounds, a living being creates new cells to replace the lost ones, therefore I'm assuming the werewolf gene would allow you to use that capacity ( to some extent) to transform.

I agree with that. But still I cannot understand how this is related to the maintaining of fur/teeth etc. - Or is that a totally new point you aroused? You wrote:

Well, he doesn't exactly keep the fur in his pocket, right? Assuming that you're not combining the regenerating abilitie with the transformation one...

So, how is this exactly related in your opinion?

[mielikkishunt]

What I meant was that, unlike a videogame, you wouldn't expend a certain amount of energy, but some energy(which is something that would be according to your age, size, "experience", and physical/mental state), cause you have to grow fur, teeth, etc... and maintain them (which is unnatural to a human).

I don't see you needinug to maintain them, maintain the shape? Maybe. . .my personal weres expand the energy shifting back and forth.

[MLhowler]

Ohh, I see... Then I made a small mistake in my posts. Anyway, the regenerating matter is kind of related but needs a bit of developing. It's related cause to regenerate you create new cells, and to transform you create new cells, therefore I see the connection between the two.

[Vuldari]

Okay...hold on...there is clearly a minunderstanding happening here.


Here is what is being debated:

When a Werewolf transforms from a human into a Gestalt Werewolf form, Does it or does it Not need to continue to expend Energy to remain in that form?


This debate began when MLhowler stated that a werewolves shifted form needs to not only be created but "Maintained". (Link to original post)

What I meant was that, unlike a videogame, you wouldn't expend a certain amount of energy, but some energy(which is something that would be according to your age, size, "experience", and physical/mental state), cause you have to grow fur, teeth, etc... and maintain them (which is unnatural to a human).

So far, the general consensus (which I agree with, allthough it is still just an opinion) is that, a werewolf DOES expend a great deal of energy in the creation and manipulation of living cells when transforming into the "Gestalt" (or ferral Wolf) form...HOWEVER...once this transformation has completed, the werewolves body is solid and complete, and thus does not require any further expense of energy to remain in that shape.

Energy is spent growing new hair on the body...but once the hair is grown, it's THERE. Relaxing or running out of energy will not make it shrink or dissapear, any more than relaxing in human form will cause one to revert to thier childhood state. Once a change is done...it's DONE.

In this respect, the reverse-shift (IMHO) back to human form would ALSO be an instance of considerable energy enxpense, and would likely be just as much of a physical strain as changing into a Wolf. ...and once again, once the body has been changed into that of a human again, the change is solid and complete. No more extra expense of energy is required to remain in human shape than is required to move, breathe and pump blood through your veins.


I hope that helps to clear up some of the misunderstandings.