Immunity

[Vuldari]

I voted yes...but not neccesarily in the way I think many of you are thinking.


I beleive that a person could have an existing physical abnormality that interferes with the werewolf "contagion"s ability to fully take hold, or carry out its function.

Homone imbalances...glandular irregularities...muscular or nerve malformities...

Basically, if bodily functions that are needed for Lycanthropy to do what it does are not functioning properly, then it could not ever fully set in, and thus someone could get it into thier system without ever being truely effected by it.

...and the "Virus" can not Correct such errors if it is never able to activate in the first place.


Also, YES...I could see an extremely rare case of an apparantly normal, healthy person having mutant biology that is capable of resisting and rejecting the Lycanthropy Virus. (Though, in the same vein, I could also see cases of people unusually vunerable to it, who would die upon contact with it as well.)



If it is supernatural in nature, vs biological, then I still think there could be other supernatural powers or attrubutes that could allready exist within some humans that override, resist, or simply TRUMP the Lycanthropy...though again, it would likely be quite rare.

[Fenrir]

I voted yes...but not neccesarily in the way I think many of you are thinking.


I beleive that a person could have an existing physical abnormality that interferes with the werewolf "contagion"s ability to fully take hold, or carry out its function.

Homone imbalances...glandular irregularities...muscular or nerve malformities...

Basically, if bodily functions that are needed for Lycanthropy to do what it does are not functioning properly, then it could not ever fully set in, and thus someone could get it into thier system without ever being truely effected by it.

...and the "Virus" can not Correct such errors if it is never able to activate in the first place.


Also, YES...I could see an extremely rare case of an apparantly normal, healthy person having mutant biology that is capable of resisting and rejecting the Lycanthropy Virus. (Though, in the same vein, I could also see cases of people unusually vunerable to it, who would die upon contact with it as well.)



If it is supernatural in nature, vs biological, then I still think there could be other supernatural powers or attrubutes that could allready exist within some humans that override, resist, or simply TRUMP the Lycanthropy...though again, it would likely be quite rare.

oh so like if they have that disease were blood can not clot then they would simply bleed the contageon out before it took hold?

[Vuldari]

Oh so like if they have that disease were blood can not clot then they would simply bleed the contageon out before it took hold?

Things like that, yeah.

It sounds like you understood what I meant.

[Jamie]

I voted 'no'. I'm not real sure on the science here, but immunity to lycanthropy just doesn't feel right to me.

Also, immunity to various different ailments is naturally selected for, becuase those who are immune live and those who aren't die. But, with lycanthropy, you don't die if you get it (well, not usually, anyway), so immunity to lycanthropy would not be selected for.

Regardless of whether something is selected for or not, you can pick just about any virus or bacteria and there are generally some people who are naturally immune. It is something that happens because of the different genetic make-up of people. Let's say that the virus uses a particular protein to dock with cells, and some people have a protein on the surface of their cells that interferes with the protein that the virus uses. Those people can't be infected because whatever viruses get inside their body can't increase in number or do anything to their cells. So, in theory, there is nothing wrong with the idea that some people would be naturally immune to a lycanthropy virus. You just wouldn't have large numbers of such immune people without a good reason. Furthermore, the few naturally immune people might be extremely rare, and it would be unusual for them to ever become aware of their condition.
However, if there were some way of testing for this immunity, then such people would be top choices as werewolf hunters in a universe where organizations hunted down werewolves. Otherwise, all your hunters would be likely to join the other side sooner or later.

I take it you missed my most recent post.

Ooops, sorry. I totally missed that one.

[Aki]

Remember my quip about the bullet you don't hear ?

We're not talking video games or hard to beat bosses.

We are talking about the kind of armor that IS available in the real world.

And remember, that the typical werewolf is nearly brain dead as shown in games. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

No

Let's talk about savy werewolves. With shotguns and 30.06 rifles of their own.

Oh, and smarts too.

Not to mention teeth and an infectious agent.

I was using the marines as a reference. A. Simple. Metal. Plate. Protecting the chest area, with another one two protecting other vitals.

Like the breastplate of a suit of armor. I would have used that as a references, but I was afraid you might draw the conclusion that WW hunters are armored like knights. This sort of armor turned away the strikes of longswords and such, it's useful in melee.

'Savy' Werewolves. You're going off track, I think. The point I was originally making is that the spreading the infectious agent isn't easy, as a hunter has a plethora of ways to stop the Were from even getting that close, so he doesn't have to 'roll the dice'. If the were fires back - so much the better! Theres no dice rolling now, its gunfight...

[garouda]

Remember my quip about the bullet you don't hear ?

We're not talking video games or hard to beat bosses.

We are talking about the kind of armor that IS available in the real world.

And remember, that the typical werewolf is nearly brain dead as shown in games. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

No

Let's talk about savy werewolves. With shotguns and 30.06 rifles of their own.

Oh, and smarts too.

Not to mention teeth and an infectious agent.

I was using the marines as a reference. A. Simple. Metal. Plate. Protecting the chest area, with another one two protecting other vitals.

Like the breastplate of a suit of armor. I would have used that as a references, but I was afraid you might draw the conclusion that WW hunters are armored like knights. This sort of armor turned away the strikes of longswords and such, it's useful in melee.

'Savy' Werewolves. You're going off track, I think. The point I was originally making is that the spreading the infectious agent isn't easy, as a hunter has a plethora of ways to stop the Were from even getting that close, so he doesn't have to 'roll the dice'. If the were fires back - so much the better! Theres no dice rolling now, its gunfight...

Werewolves can be stealthy if they choose to be.

You can only react to what you know is there.

The shotgun pointed before you, is little defense against the WW approaching from the rear and already so close that it is difficult to bring the shotgun to bear.

[Aki]

Remember my quip about the bullet you don't hear ?

We're not talking video games or hard to beat bosses.

We are talking about the kind of armor that IS available in the real world.

And remember, that the typical werewolf is nearly brain dead as shown in games. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

No

Let's talk about savy werewolves. With shotguns and 30.06 rifles of their own.

Oh, and smarts too.

Not to mention teeth and an infectious agent.

I was using the marines as a reference. A. Simple. Metal. Plate. Protecting the chest area, with another one two protecting other vitals.

Like the breastplate of a suit of armor. I would have used that as a references, but I was afraid you might draw the conclusion that WW hunters are armored like knights. This sort of armor turned away the strikes of longswords and such, it's useful in melee.

'Savy' Werewolves. You're going off track, I think. The point I was originally making is that the spreading the infectious agent isn't easy, as a hunter has a plethora of ways to stop the Were from even getting that close, so he doesn't have to 'roll the dice'. If the were fires back - so much the better! Theres no dice rolling now, its gunfight...

Werewolves can be stealthy if they choose to be.

You can only react to what you know is there.

The shotgun pointed before you, is little defense against the WW approaching from the rear and already so close that it is difficult to bring the shotgun to bear.

Yes. But that goes back to the armor; it will provide protection in such a instance. Do not underestimate a Werewolf hunter. He knows his prey.
If it becomes to close for even a shotgun, I bet many would carry a knife or other blade.

[Vuldari]

Remember my quip about the bullet you don't hear ?

We're not talking video games or hard to beat bosses.

We are talking about the kind of armor that IS available in the real world.

And remember, that the typical werewolf is nearly brain dead as shown in games. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

No

Let's talk about savy werewolves. With shotguns and 30.06 rifles of their own.

Oh, and smarts too.

Not to mention teeth and an infectious agent.

I was using the marines as a reference. A. Simple. Metal. Plate. Protecting the chest area, with another one two protecting other vitals.

Like the breastplate of a suit of armor. I would have used that as a references, but I was afraid you might draw the conclusion that WW hunters are armored like knights. This sort of armor turned away the strikes of longswords and such, it's useful in melee.

'Savy' Werewolves. You're going off track, I think. The point I was originally making is that the spreading the infectious agent isn't easy, as a hunter has a plethora of ways to stop the Were from even getting that close, so he doesn't have to 'roll the dice'. If the were fires back - so much the better! Theres no dice rolling now, its gunfight...

Werewolves can be stealthy if they choose to be.

You can only react to what you know is there.

The shotgun pointed before you, is little defense against the WW approaching from the rear and already so close that it is difficult to bring the shotgun to bear.

Yes. But that goes back to the armor; it will provide protection in such a instance. Do not underestimate a Werewolf hunter. He knows his prey.
If it becomes to close for even a shotgun, I bet many would carry a knife or other blade.

Indeed...though I'm not sure why I'm helping this conversation stay off topic, I agree that someone who goes toe to toe with a werewolf (such as a so-called "Werewolf Hunter"), would surely have some idea of what to expect, and would be familiar with wolf hunting strategies and pack hunting behavior. They would not go in blind and stupid...INSANE perhaps, but not so oblivious as to not even watch thier back, or be prepared for close-range combat.


How is this on-topic again?

Werewolf hunters would not get infected because they would not let themselves be bitten?


Any inteligent werewolf would make sure NOT to bite someone like that.

...a paranoid, eccentric like that is the LAST kind of person you would want to give the powers, and likewise the psycological troubles that go along with being a werewolf. Can you imagine the chaos and mayhem that could result from that?


Werewolf hunters would be unlikely to ever contract Lycanthropy becasue no werewolf in their right mind would risk giving it to them.

...IMHO...

[garouda]

Remember my quip about the bullet you don't hear ?

We're not talking video games or hard to beat bosses.

We are talking about the kind of armor that IS available in the real world.

And remember, that the typical werewolf is nearly brain dead as shown in games. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

No

Let's talk about savy werewolves. With shotguns and 30.06 rifles of their own.

Oh, and smarts too.

Not to mention teeth and an infectious agent.

I was using the marines as a reference. A. Simple. Metal. Plate. Protecting the chest area, with another one two protecting other vitals.

Like the breastplate of a suit of armor. I would have used that as a references, but I was afraid you might draw the conclusion that WW hunters are armored like knights. This sort of armor turned away the strikes of longswords and such, it's useful in melee.

'Savy' Werewolves. You're going off track, I think. The point I was originally making is that the spreading the infectious agent isn't easy, as a hunter has a plethora of ways to stop the Were from even getting that close, so he doesn't have to 'roll the dice'. If the were fires back - so much the better! Theres no dice rolling now, its gunfight...

Werewolves can be stealthy if they choose to be.

You can only react to what you know is there.

The shotgun pointed before you, is little defense against the WW approaching from the rear and already so close that it is difficult to bring the shotgun to bear.

Yes. But that goes back to the armor; it will provide protection in such a instance. Do not underestimate a Werewolf hunter. He knows his prey.
If it becomes to close for even a shotgun, I bet many would carry a knife or other blade.

Indeed...though I'm not sure why I'm helping this conversation stay off topic, I agree that someone who goes toe to toe with a werewolf (such as a so-called "Werewolf Hunter"), would surely have some idea of what to expect, and would be familiar with wolf hunting strategies and pack hunting behavior. They would not go in blind and stupid...INSANE perhaps, but not so oblivious as to not even watch thier back, or be prepared for close-range combat.


How is this on-topic again?

Werewolf hunters would not get infected because they would not let themselves be bitten?


Any inteligent werewolf would make sure NOT to bite someone like that.

...a paranoid, eccentric like that is the LAST kind of person you would want to give the powers, and likewise the psycological troubles that go along with being a werewolf. Can you imagine the chaos and mayhem that could result from that?


Werewolf hunters would be unlikely to ever contract Lycanthropy becasue no werewolf in their right mind would risk giving it to them.



...IMHO...

And THERE is the GOOD argument.

Imagine what a nightmare it would be, to have a werewolf hunter become a werewolf himself and REMAIN a werewolf hunter.

[Renorei]

I imagine that the overwhelming majority of werewolf hunters would be unsuccessful. Sure, if you practice at something long enough, you can get somewhat good at it, but what werewolf is going to allow a hunter to practice on him?

Furthermore, although it's possible that training could be given to inexperienced hunters by old timers, the odds of there actually being old-timers are pretty darn slim. I'd say that choosing 'werewolf hunter' as a career is pretty much a death wish. Sure, you might get lucky on a handful of idiot werewolves, but sooner or later (most likely sooner) an experienced werewolf will quickly and easily pick you off.

[garouda]

I imagine that the overwhelming majority of werewolf hunters would be unsuccessful. Sure, if you practice at something long enough, you can get somewhat good at it, but what werewolf is going to allow a hunter to practice on him?

Furthermore, although it's possible that training could be given to inexperienced hunters by old timers, the odds of there actually being old-timers are pretty darn slim. I'd say that choosing 'werewolf hunter' as a career is pretty much a death wish. Sure, you might get lucky on a handful of idiot werewolves, but sooner or later (most likely sooner) an experienced werewolf will quickly and easily pick you off.

Indeed, for all the weapons that a WW hunter can bring to bear, so also can a WW itself bring to bear against the WW hunter. PLUS, the extra talents of being a WW AND the cooperation of The Pack, whatever mix of forms and capabilities an organized pack might choose to bring to the fight.

[Vuldari]

I imagine that the overwhelming majority of werewolf hunters would be unsuccessful. Sure, if you practice at something long enough, you can get somewhat good at it, but what werewolf is going to allow a hunter to practice on him?

Furthermore, although it's possible that training could be given to inexperienced hunters by old timers, the odds of there actually being old-timers are pretty darn slim. I'd say that choosing 'werewolf hunter' as a career is pretty much a death wish. Sure, you might get lucky on a handful of idiot werewolves, but sooner or later (most likely sooner) an experienced werewolf will quickly and easily pick you off.

Indeed, for all the weapons that a WW hunter can bring to bear, so also can a WW itself bring to bear against the WW hunter. PLUS, the extra talents of being a WW AND the cooperation of The Pack, whatever mix of forms and capabilities an organized pack might choose to bring to the fight.

Though werewolves would potentially be equally as inteligent as any human opponent they may face, but with greater strength and senses, I don't think the two sides would really be that unequally matched.

If the Human Hunter happens to be just a little bit smarter, or more combat experienced than the werewolf (a human hunter would likely seek militaryand/or martial arts training before engaging thier opponent...though not all werewolves would be ex-marines, leaving a great many at a distinct disadvantage, despite being stronger) then the werewolf may simply be too naive to know how to counter advanced combat strategy. ...and knowing how to defend oneself from an attack from behind is part of basic defense training.

In a face off between an urban born werewolf that has been forced to live a low-key life and a trained soldier, fully armed with both firearms and short range weapons like bayonetts, as well as extensive combat training... having five times the soldiers strength, better senses, and hunting instincts patterned after the hunting of DEER, not Humans may not really be of much help.

I think "Werwolf Hunters" could actually be quite succesful in that regard.

...unless, of course, they come across an ex-marine, genious combat strategist Werewolf who has trained his/herself to fight such a foe...

...in which case the Werewolf Hunter would likely be that nights dinner.

[garouda]

I imagine that the overwhelming majority of werewolf hunters would be unsuccessful. Sure, if you practice at something long enough, you can get somewhat good at it, but what werewolf is going to allow a hunter to practice on him?

Furthermore, although it's possible that training could be given to inexperienced hunters by old timers, the odds of there actually being old-timers are pretty darn slim. I'd say that choosing 'werewolf hunter' as a career is pretty much a death wish. Sure, you might get lucky on a handful of idiot werewolves, but sooner or later (most likely sooner) an experienced werewolf will quickly and easily pick you off.

Indeed, for all the weapons that a WW hunter can bring to bear, so also can a WW itself bring to bear against the WW hunter. PLUS, the extra talents of being a WW AND the cooperation of The Pack, whatever mix of forms and capabilities an organized pack might choose to bring to the fight.

Though werewolves would potentially be equally as inteligent as any human opponent they may face, but with greater strength and senses, I don't think the two sides would really be that unequally matched.

If the Human Hunter happens to be just a little bit smarter, or more combat experienced than the werewolf (a human hunter would likely seek militaryand/or martial arts training before engaging thier opponent...though not all werewolves would be ex-marines, leaving a great many at a distinct disadvantage, despite being stronger) then the werewolf may simply be too naive to know how to counter advanced combat strategy. ...and knowing how to defend oneself from an attack from behind is part of basic defense training.

In a face off between an urban born werewolf that has been forced to live a low-key life and a trained soldier, fully armed with both firearms and short range weapons like bayonetts, as well as extensive combat training... having five times the soldiers strength, better senses, and hunting instincts patterned after the hunting of DEER, not Humans may not really be of much help.

I think "Werwolf Hunters" could actually be quite succesful in that regard.

...unless, of course, they come across an ex-marine, genious combat strategist Werewolf who has trained his/herself to fight such a foe...

...in which case the Werewolf Hunter would likely be that nights dinner.

There are a lot more veterans out there than folks realize. Thus the odds of WWs having some among their ranks are real. And if life includes risk and danger, for WWs whether they desire it or not, I would not be surprised if they would teach one another how to be more effective at survival. Meaning the trained folks among them might well also become teachers.

Also, there are more well trained folks than just Marines. There are also the folks who drop in behind enemy lines, days, weeks and even months ahead of 'actions' to perform recon, surveillance and other myriad duties.. Those folks tend to become civilians eventually too. They tend to have a lot of extra training and skills. I could see WWs wanting such folks among their ranks.

[Kzinistzerg]

I voted 'it's not a disease' as my version would ahve it being mroe magical in orgin than physical.

[bloodwolf_345]

Even though I voted "no" I dont think that it is a disease. It is an evolutionary enhancement. When the Wolfen DNA mixes with the human DNA, the Wolfen DNA takes over and enhances the human "host"

[Vuldari]

There are a lot more veterans out there than folks realize. Thus the odds of WWs having some among their ranks are real. And if life includes risk and danger, for WWs whether they desire it or not, I would not be surprised if they would teach one another how to be more effective at survival. Meaning the trained folks among them might well also become teachers.

Also, there are more well trained folks than just Marines. There are also the folks who drop in behind enemy lines, days, weeks and even months ahead of 'actions' to perform recon, surveillance and other myriad duties.. Those folks tend to become civilians eventually too. They tend to have a lot of extra training and skills. I could see WWs wanting such folks among their ranks.

Perhaps...but I think there is a bit too much of a comic-book/Anime mentatlity behind this.

Do you really think that ALL werewolves would want to be bad@** warriors? ...that all would be willing, or have any desire at all to undergo combat training, even if there was someone in their ranks willing to train them?

It's not like they would be under attack from werewolf hunters every week. I'd think, (if they are as successful at staying unkown as they would need to be), that many would not ever see such a foe, or if they did, would not see the point in fighting, as doing so would draw alot of unwanted attention and bring the whole paranoid human world crashing down around them, smiting them and the rest of thier pack in the process.

Even if a werewolf would have the capacity to be a much more formidable warrior than most ordinary humans, I doubt many would be, either for lack of desire, or for being wise enough to realise it is better to run and dissapear.

Therefore, if a werewolf pack happened to be set upon by a perticularly skilled and dangerous "hunter", I think more than a few would become victims before the stronger ones decide to fight back...and by then it could be too late.
-----------------------------------

But this is getting off topic.

I prefer to think that Lycathropy would be a very persistant thing, and seemingly everyone would be helpless against resisting it once it gets into them...but I also say, "never say never"...and so I leave the possibility open that there could be rare exeptions. ...because 'Definates' just are not as logical or exiting as 'uncertainties'...IMHO.

[Silver]

I voted that there can be an immunity. I would think it extremely rare. Extremely, extremely extremely extremely rare. But yes.

Here's why.

There was actually a documentary about the HIV virus. Seems that there are people, more than a couple, that are immune to HIV. They are extremely extremely (see above) but they do exist. There is research that connects it with a funky piece of DNA (abnormal 32nd chromosone, I think). So my memory's not the best and I can't spell. You get my drift.

As I remember, another group was doing research on the Irish, because they seemed to have such a low incidence of the Black Plague - in all its waves even up to the late 1800s. Especially in one area of Ireland. Like it never ever happened. They've studied the ancestors of those folk, and in some rare cases, actually got DNA evidence from the graves. Guess what? Extremely high incidence of the abnormal 32nd chromosone.

There's still not enough evidence to link the two immunities - but it's a crazy coincidence.

My conclusion - there will always be an immunity somewhere in the gene pool. It's the evolutionary ace in the hole. Much as I dislike it, there would be immunity.

Now lets go back to that idea about latent WWism. Triggered by some incident, you say? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm been mulling that one over for years. Even had the opening scene to a movie wrapped around it.

[Scott Gardener]

<nitpicking>
Humans don't have a 32nd chromosome. We've got 22 pairs plus XX or XY. (Not counting those rare people with a chromosomal anomoly such as Turner's or Klinefelter's syndrome)
</nitpicking>

[Renorei]

Klinefelter's syndrome

Ugh.

[garouda]

<nitpicking>
Humans don't have a 32nd chromosome. We've got 22 pairs plus XX or XY. (Not counting those rare people with a chromosomal anomoly such as Turner's or Klinefelter's syndrome)
</nitpicking>

*offers you a jar brim full of nits so that you might feel extra successful about picking nits today*

[Chibiabos]

I'd say it might exist, but would be rare. It'd make a real fun story element.
Especially if the immune person wants to be a Werewolf. And it'd make a useful tool for hunters or hunter wannabes, so they could hunt werewolves without managing to keep uninfected by luck or something. Make a sort of Lycanthropy immunization shot or something...

Though, the immune guy wanting to be a WW is a more interesting story-hook...

That's my thought exactly ... or, in the context of Freeborn, what if Jack bit her to become a ww, only it turns out she is one in a billion who are immune, and winds up not being able to? Would he have to kill her? Would she kill herself to protect them and their sanctity?

Of course that's not a realy suggestion ... the script is written ... but still, it'd be dramatic.

[Shadow Wulf]

Now that would just mess up the whole plot.

[Scott Gardener]

You know, it would completely suck if one were a therian who happened to have that one in a billion immunity.

(Yes, it's actually me phrasing it that way. Someone didn't hack into my account.)

More likely statistically, the one person alive on Earth who is immune will live, grow up, grow old, and die never knowing that he or she is immune to the bite of creatures he or she assumes don't even really exist.

[whereismydemon]

in my view on this, it would be like the situation of a video game i have played, but it involves vampires, my character caught the vampiric disease which took 3 days to manifest itself within him, then when he slept and awoke he would have become a vampire, i then got a cure for my character whilst he was a vampire (i could have cured it during it's manifestation period before the transformation) and he was then immune to the disease entirely. he could still catch the disease, but it could not manifest within him, so i was able to cure it commonly. i think an immunity like this could be passed down through the family line, but it wouldn't appear in every single member, only about every 3 out of 10. If a family was hit with the curse of a werewolf and then cured it and had an immunity that was passed down through the years, then there would be some who would be completely unaffected by the disease, this would make a nice twist within the movie. This is only my opinion of course, i would be glad if this idea format would be used, but i am not the only one with ideas and solutions.


without living organisms the world would have no problems, but also no purpose.

[Night Rain]

I've always thought of it as a mythological thing rather than a disease. Long story made short is that if it were viruses (and it would have to be more than one) you would either die or it wouldn't work.

Of course one is about as possible as the other, so I guess really it doesn't matter.

I'm inclined to vote yes, because I doubt it would be absolute either way.