Stanton's Big Checklist For Werewolf Movies

Kirk Hammett · Post by **Kirk Hammett** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:37 am

-tail between legs- eh well I think I missed half this board because theres some annoyance in here

-creeps off-

But they need tails in movies! Tails! Tails!

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:29 pm

To recap, it's not that I loath "short" transformations.
I like dramatic transformations. That most of the short transformations I've seen have been, shall we say, not dramatic, is a sad fact. But, to come to the conclusion that I dismiss short transformations because they're short is akin to trying to forcefeed an agitated snapping turtle with your barehands.

I dislike some "long" transformations, as I find them to be too drawn out, and thus, tedious.
And I find tedium to be a very poor substitute for drama.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:03 pm

I've noticed that, throughout a lot of this thread, many of you have recommended that an average werewolf's TF should be about 10 seconds. I couldn't disagree more.

An average TF should be at least 30 seconds. 10 seconds is far too short.

And yes, I know a lot can happen in 10 seconds, and that if I stop and count to 10, I'll realize it's a 'long time' (except not really). But it's still far too short.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:11 pm

Renorei wrote:I've noticed that, throughout a lot of this thread, many of you have recommended that an average werewolf's TF should be about 10 seconds. I couldn't disagree more.

An average TF should be at least 30 seconds. 10 seconds is far too short.

And yes, I know a lot can happen in 10 seconds, and that if I stop and count to 10, I'll realize it's a 'long time' (except not really). But it's still far too short.

On the other hand, I don't like a transformation that's long for the sake of being long.
It's like, as the guy is squirming as his arm is growing out, I'm sitting there, rotating my wrist, saying, "Well? Get on with it!"
...
So many shall die for our quest to find that perfect transformation, and so many more lives shall be broken, too, until it is found.
In the mean time, I say we buy stock in Nair.

Herpscott · Post by **Herpscott** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:00 pm

I have to say that I like a lengthy transformation. Even 30 seconds seems too fast. I don't want it to last the whole movie either a la "The Fly." (Not a WW I know but everytime you see Jeff Goldblum's character, he is a little more transmogrified. NO!

Than again, even the Howling was too long - I think because the changes were too slow. What I mean is that the scene shows the muzzle growing for 30-50% of the whole time. The filmakers were trying diligently to make you fear this process. Instead, they made Eddy's face pulse and roll and they left alot out. Never did they show his feet, back nor his abdomen.

For the ideal transformation - I agree that first shifts will be slower than those that are experienced. I also like the idea of pain for those 1st timers and a tolerated discomfort bordering on pleasure for the experienced. I think Eddy's TF would have been better if he was shown in some discomfort, instead he looked like he was trying to be frightening - which worked with his character in the movie I suppose. He wanted Karen to view every part of his rage.

The whole *poof* is irritating to me too - and I believe some one mentioned Howling VII where the CGI was terrible - yeah I have to go change a post I left elsewhere regarding worst werewolf in a movie!

Many TF's in Freeborn ----I am getting so excited to see this...HURRY!!

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:02 pm

herpscott wrote: The whole *poof* is irritating to me too - and I believe some one mentioned Howling VII where the CGI was terrible - yeah I have to go change a post I left elsewhere regarding worst werewolf in a movie!

Many TF's in Freeborn ----I am getting so excited to see this...HURRY!!

Howling 7? As in, "Howling: New Moon Rising"?
The actual transformation, as opposed to the transformations they showed in all of those clips/flashbacks to Howlings 4,5, and Freaks, has got to be the most cheapest, uninspired morph ever.
Even worse than the transformation in Dark Wolf.

Herpscott · Post by **Herpscott** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:03 pm

Apokryltaros wrote:Howling 7? As in, "Howling: New Moon Rising"?
The actual transformation, as opposed to the transformations they showed in all of those clips/flashbacks to Howlings 4,5, and Freaks, has got to be the most cheapest, uninspired morph ever.
Even worse than the transformation in Dark Wolf.

Yeah! Sorry. Howling VII = Howling: New Moon Rising = CRAP

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:21 pm

herpscott wrote: Yeah! Sorry. Howling VII = Howling: New Moon Rising = CRAP

Amen.
I mean, who in their right mind props up a werewolf movie with chili and fart jokes, then finishes it off with a happy heehaw ending?

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:57 am

Damn you guys for reminding me that movie, I got to burn that thing.

Anyway, as I mentioned a while back a transformation should be about a 1:00 to 1:30 seconds long. Eddy's TF in The howling was about 2:30 long, so thats too long, but 30 seconds is very unstatisfying, look at Van Helsing, its a cool TF but it was way too short, 10 seconds and thats it.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:12 am

Now, in the Howling, if Eddie was staggering, convulsing, and otherwise injecting a little melodrama into himself, instead of just standing there twitching and grinning, we wouldn't have felt that his TF was just, well, you know.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:58 am

True it wouldnt have felt that long but it would still feel too long. A transformation shouldnt be over 2, minutes unless its like in Ginger Snaps where the Ginger goes through a whole bunch of phase and slowly trasnform little by little untill the full moon.

Herpscott · Post by **Herpscott** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:26 pm

Ya know, I really didn't care much for Ginger Snaps nor the other two sequels or prequels or whatever the hell you call 'em. BLASPHEMY!! I think I'm the only one on here that was dissappointed. The first one had its moments, but the humor was just too unforgiveable.

Flame ON!

mexwerewolf · Post by **mexwerewolf** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:31 pm

This are my preferences for a TF scene:

* The TF should take between one minute and two minutes. Less than one minute could be very unrealistic, as for the amount of changes the body must endure to go from human to Gestalt or wolf. More than two minutes would be too slow to me. I think experienced WW could do it in one minute and a newbie WW would take as long as two minutes.

* No computer morph TF scenes. For me, they really suck and will look totally fake. All the effort made in detailing the process of shifting would be wasted.

* I would expect to see the WW in full body shot while he experienced the shift. And some close ups to his head, paws (feet and hands), back, chest and legs while they shift.

* As for ripping clothes, that must be dependant on the plot. If some "emergency" shifting is required when the character needs to shift real fast, then it would be ok. But I guess WW would prefer to undress before a shift if they have already planned to do it and, besides, clothes are expensive.

* Even experienced WW should feel some degree of noticeable pain. And of course, newbies, would feel a lot of pain with the added fear of realizing they are changing into something unkown to them.

* I would expect the WW while they shift to also move. I hate those scenes where the WW seems to be freezed as they shift. The hands/paws should move a little while the changes occured. They could also try to walk as their feet and legs readjust trying to avoid falling to the ground.

* I don't want to see a WW like the one in that TV Show "Werewolf" where the WW could not shut their muzzles.

I think that's all I can think of today.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:10 am

I dunno...
While it's true that an experienced werewolf would try not to destroy his or her clothing by transforming, I can't help but be reminded of the way the werewolf in Darkwolf just went around in the buff.

garouda · Post by **garouda** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:56 am

I have an interesting visualization. If it has been done before I have not seen it. But first I would like to point out that robes of the appropriate tailoring, might be able to survive the transition without disrobing.

Now for the visualization:

A priest, having been bitten, is in his priestly clothing. bowed before the alter, praying, even while he is changing. And to have the prayer continue through the transition to the gestalt form.

Something about the image of a devout werewolf ...

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:00 pm

garouda wrote:I have an interesting visualization. If it has been done before I have not seen it. But first I would like to point out that robes of the appropriate tailoring, might be able to survive the transition without disrobing.

Now for the visualization:

A priest, having been bitten, is in his priestly clothing. bowed before the alter, praying, even while he is changing. And to have the prayer continue through the transition to the gestalt form.

Something about the image of a devout werewolf ...

You've been watching Silver Bullet, again?

garouda · Post by **garouda** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:58 pm

Apokryltaros wrote:
garouda wrote:I have an interesting visualization. If it has been done before I have not seen it. But first I would like to point out that robes of the appropriate tailoring, might be able to survive the transition without disrobing.

Now for the visualization:

A priest, having been bitten, is in his priestly clothing. bowed before the alter, praying, even while he is changing. And to have the prayer continue through the transition to the gestalt form.

Something about the image of a devout werewolf ...
You've been watching Silver Bullet, again?

I've never seen "Silver Bullet" should I ?

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:22 pm

It's worth at least one rental. It's superior to a lot of the recent werewolf movies, at least.

mexwerewolf · Post by **mexwerewolf** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:40 pm

garouda wrote:I have an interesting visualization. If it has been done before I have not seen it. But first I would like to point out that robes of the appropriate tailoring, might be able to survive the transition without disrobing.

Now for the visualization:

A priest, having been bitten, is in his priestly clothing. bowed before the alter, praying, even while he is changing. And to have the prayer continue through the transition to the gestalt form.

Something about the image of a devout werewolf ...

In silver bullet, there is a scene just like that. He is trying to give his speech about the beast. and He just starts to shift along with the entire congregation. Pretty good movie too. The book is quite good too.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:46 pm

mexwerewolf wrote: In silver bullet, there is a scene just like that. He is trying to give his speech about the beast. and He just starts to shift along with the entire congregation. Pretty good movie too. The book is quite good too.

Not to spoil too much, but, the movie places a little more emphasis on the werewolf, rather than the town, and makes him just a little less sympathetic.

bloodwolf_345 · Post by **bloodwolf_345** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:45 pm

How about no STONEWALL climbing. With those claws, and lots of luck, a Werewolf could climb a wall. It doesn't take much puncture drywall.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:03 pm

bloodwolf_345 wrote:How about no STONEWALL climbing. With those claws, and lots of luck, a Werewolf could climb a wall. It doesn't take much puncture drywall.

Though, I would think that, if a werewolf could easily puncture drywall, I doubt that he could keep his claws from being pulled out by the weight of his own body.
Wall-climbing doesn't bother me too much, just so long as they don't make a song and dance out of it like they did in Cursed.
We want to watch werewolves, not wolfspiders.

alphanubilus · Post by **alphanubilus** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:22 am

Honestly, as a screenwriter, the whole transformation aspect of the werewolf, is directly linked to the context of the story. On average you have 120 to 125 pages to tell a story on screen. That seems like a lot, but when you start plotting everything out, it doesn't take long before you run out of time and space, and a long extended transformation sequence during a scene that needs to be shorter, will most likely get cut, if not by the director, or producer, but by the editor as well. If it is slowing down the pace of the film, it will be cut.
In AWL, the TF worked wonders because Landis as well as Baker wanted the audience to see the transformation of a boyish college frat into a four legged wolf, and do it all in camera. They wanted you to feel his pain and agony, so that you can still have sympathy for the wolf, even though it is killing people.
In the original The Howling, it was to represent the horror of the werewolf, however, if I was that young lady, I would have left him while he was transforming, and probably gotten to a cafe, had a coke, a cheese burger w/ french fries, watched a few movies, and then left town completely before that transformation sequence was ended.

While the lenghty transformations worked in those two films, could you imagine that happening in Underworld? Would you honestly believe that a vampire Death Dealer, would just stand there for 40 seconds, doing nothing, while the werewolf is helplessly transforming. Nah... The wolf would have been dead even before the final stages of the metamorphysis was completed. The TF's had to be fast and furious.

So it all comes down to the context of the situation.

In my latest project Hour of Darkness, some of the transformation sequences are extremely fast (at least written that way) because it needs to be. I have a few places in the story where it is a bit slower, thus allowing more detail, but every one of them is directly linked to the pacing of the script and the over all movement of the film.

In "H.O.D." (For more info, you can search it at Werewolf.com) I view transformation with two different aspects. One is the literal transformation of the characters and their relative canines, and the other is the transformation of the character from a lower to higher equilibrium within themselves. A good example is the main character. His transformation takes the entire film, because he has to change from the inside first, going from a passive child-like character, into an active moving participating adult character, all the while he is building up to become a bad-a** werewolf warrior, but that final and ultimate transformation happens at the end of the story, creating a very dramatic feeling.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:33 am

mexwerewolf wrote: * As for ripping clothes, that must be dependant on the plot. If some "emergency" shifting is required when the character needs to shift real fast, then it would be ok. But I guess WW would prefer to undress before a shift if they have already planned to do it and, besides, clothes are expensive.

I gotta see at least one cloth-ripping!

If not, I'm gonna freak out!