Therian Interview

[Darkmoon]

[Set]

Oh for Ra's sake...not another one. Look, I'm sick of people asking me questions for their damn books and papers. I'd much rather the communities not be known at all except to those who actively seek them out. You're not the first person to ask and from the way things have been going you're not going to be the last. You just plain picked the wrong group.

http://community.livejournal.com/0therkin/36936.html

This person tried too. You'll see my reply in the comments. Will you people -please- leave us be? You're doing alot more damage than you realize.

[Darkmoon]

*nods and sighs in agreement* I guess you're right and I see your point. I don't mean to cause trouble...but..in truth *grins evilly* your reply actually helped me.. I can now say that there are people out there that don't care, which is great, because if you don't care, then why should anyone else? Thanks Set, and I'll take your words as advice to not bother the world further.
The mods may commence the deleting and I shall commence with the running away, as I have embarrassed myself enough. *yawns and walks away sadly*

Ps: I'm sure you you don't care but I'm not asking you questions....you don't need to answer them *headdesksmack* I must give you props for telling it like it is though.
No hard feelings?

[Set]

No hard feelings?

Eh, don't worry about it. It just annoys me to no end is all.

There's another thing I didn't mention. Another reason it's not good to expose groups like therians and whatnot to people who would've never heard of them otherwise. People don't like different. It ruins careers, relationships, even entire lives.

I live in an area where people are extremely fanatical about things. There are still KKK members and the like in the south. People who will kill you over something completely and utterly stupid. When you introduce the idea of a belief that someone is an animal it will sometimes end up with people getting institutionalized and, yes, even killed. It can and has happened over far less.

[vrikasatma]

Set, that was harsh. If you don't like answering questions about a subject, then just ignore the question! He has a project to do, you didn't have to slap him down like that.

Darkmoon, go for it. Don't let anyone scare you and don't apologize for wanting to expand yours or anyone else's knowledge. Ever!

[Set]

I'm not trying to scare anyone. I'm telling the truth. I really don't give a damn whether you like it or not.

You're not the one who has to live with paranoid people. You're not the one who has to live with religious nuts who's favorite pastime is telling you you're going to hell. You're not the one who's own mother would disown you if she ever knew the truth. You're not the one who's been through the stress. You're not the one who lives in a place where people would hurt you over something like this. I am. So next time you feel like chiding me do some f*** research. I know what I'm talking about because I have to deal with it every day. And, until you have to put up with the same you have absolutely no right to b**** at me.

[outwarddoodles]

*ahem* Well, I'm not one to choose whether or not it's okay to interview and talk about topics such as therianthropy -- if it's done correctly, I doubt a lot of people would really mind. But, I do want to stress for today that this is not a therianthropy board, and I do wish for it to be kept seperate.

Two forums I know of are Therianthropy.org and Werelist. I reccomend going there, explaining your case, and seeing if they'll help you.

[vrikasatma]

You're not the one who has to live with paranoid people...

[melodramatic teenager crap snipped]

THE HELL I DON'T.
I've been living alongside fundies since before your mother got her first period. Do some f*** research yourself, punk.

Fact: Darkmoon didn't address you specifically, he doesn't go to school with you, so what he's doing for his school project DOESN'T AFFECT YOU.

Fact: None of the people in your neighbourhood who'd <i>supposedly</i> hurt you for reading this board know anything about Darkmoon's project.

Fact: Taking shots at people whose actions have no bearing on your personal day-to-day existence IS UNCALLED FOR.

I believe in scholastic endeavour and research. God knows we need it nowadays, with half the population floundering at the second-grade reading level and one in ten not being able to read at all. I am not about to stand by and let some angst-raddled twerp poison creative work with their own bullshit. If you want to wallow in self-pity, do everyone a favour and go up to your room, turn off the lights, dive under the covers and knock yourself out. Or if you're really worried about religious whackjobs gunning for your hide, go out and neutralize them.

Bottom line: if you don't want to answer questions about research that don't affect you, then shut your piehole and DON'T ANSWER. But you've no business attacking people like that.

Damn, I wish this list had a plonk button...

[Set]

I've been living alongside fundies since before your mother got her first period.

I highly doubt that. My mother's 52.

Fact: Darkmoon didn't address you specifically, he doesn't go to school with you, so what he's doing for his school project DOESN'T AFFECT YOU.

Fact: if you'd been paying attention you'd know Darkmoon is a girl.

Fact: None of the people in your neighbourhood who'd <i>supposedly</i> hurt you for reading this board know anything about Darkmoon's project.

I never said they did. But I'm not the only one who lives near people like that. Even if it doesn't effect my life it could very well have a bad one on that of others.

Fact: Taking shots at people whose actions have no bearing on your personal day-to-day existence IS UNCALLED FOR.

Taking shots? Did I insult Darkmoon in any way? Did I call the project stupid, or say it has no value? No. I don't know where you're getting that from.

Or if you're really worried about religious whackjobs gunning for your hide, go out and neutralize them.

Right. And I'm supposed to do that how? Kill them?

But you've no business attacking people like that.

Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? I merely shared my view on the matter. The only one who "attacked" anyone here is you.

Your maturity level is astonishing. I'm sure the "angsty teenager" defense wins you lots of friends. Age has absolutely no bearing on experience or intelligence. To use that in an attempt to undermine my credibility shows just how childish you can really be.

[Darkmoon]

*squeaks and hides under her tail*

Gah! Nooooooo no fight!

Set is right on some things...it's true that there are people out there that will be prejudiced for no reason at all (do you think I'm telling my family I'm a therian? I'm doing a da** project on it and I still can't get up the guts to say anything to them...I'm also from Tennessee, though not a particularly deep south kind of state, it does have its southern tendencies, so I feel ya there too)...it is also true that I am female...buuut it was a tad bit harsh, I was only asking. If you felt so strongly you could have perhaps been a little kinder.

Just for future reference most of my research for this is personal, so no worries that I'm doing some huge LOOKATTHIS sort of thing involving multiple sources, in fact I only need one question answered to prove I interviewed someone... and it only has to be one typed page and a few pictures....also I'm not an internet person... you can't trust the internet.

Outwarddoodles! *hug*

But, I do want to stress for today that this is not a therianthropy board, and I do wish for it to be kept seperate.

Thanks, I think that that is the most worthwhile thing that has been said. It is true and I should have thought of it, as I said before, I'm not an internet person...technology hates me! This is the only board I belong to, and probably will ever belong to so it is hard for me to think of doing it anywhere else.... Heh..yah...

So stop this silliness, I'm not offended, so ya'll shouldn’t be either

[Timber-WoIf]

c'mon people... the interview was for a SCHOOL REPORT. its not like anything written is going to be published for a magazine. I mean, heck, if all i needed was a single "interview" with a therian, i woulda asked here too. At least until you guys all overreacted.

so, someone better help her out by answering her few questions. This community's better than this...

(i'd do it myself, but, not one...)

[Renorei]

But, I do want to stress for today that this is not a therianthropy board, and I do wish for it to be kept seperate.

True, this is a good point. But, if indeed this is out of place in this forum because it is not a therianthropy board, then that means that all of our other discussions and threads that involved therianthropy are inappropriate for this forum as well. Just because this particular therianthropy thread managed to stir up controversy, doesn't mean it should be singled out as being wrong for this message board, when all our other therian discussions have not been.

[Kirk Hammett]

Aww she asked a few questions and got bashed. Leave her be. Im sure she didn't know. And this is in the non were related section.

I have no right to be telling anyone what to do on here though -tail between legs and crawls away-

[Hearth]

Consider this post harmless spam, instead of flaming/trolling/teasing that it could've been (all those can be seen on this thread, not becouse of Darkmoon though), and delete it.

[Renorei]

@ Darkmoon

If this thread does get deleted (and I personally don't think it should, we have many threads that are even more 'spammy' than this, and furthermore it's not really spam because we do have a lot of therians), perhaps you should just go check out some of the different threads we have on therianthropy, and pm some of the individuals who claim to be therians.

[Set]

Are there social reasons for this invisibility? What prevents you from being seen?

In a very roundabout kind of way I did answer this question. Please feel free to use anything I've said if you would like to do so. That, at least, is one thing I would actually like people to know. That it can sometimes be dangerous for people to reveal too much about themselves simply because of the society we live in.

[wolfbound]

Are there social reasons for this invisibility? What prevents you from being seen?

to stear clear of stu[id people

[Darkmoon]

to stear clear of stu[id people

no kidding

[Figarou]

This is not the 1st time that things got out of hand when it comes to therians.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewtopic.php?t=631


There is no need to start another flame war. I don't care who started it. All I want is for it to end.

This thread won't be deleted. But it may get locked if the madness continues.


Now, lets all be friends and enjoy each others company, okay?

[outwarddoodles]

But, I do want to stress for today that this is not a therianthropy board, and I do wish for it to be kept seperate.

True, this is a good point. But, if indeed this is out of place in this forum because it is not a therianthropy board, then that means that all of our other discussions and threads that involved therianthropy are inappropriate for this forum as well. Just because this particular therianthropy thread managed to stir up controversy, doesn't mean it should be singled out as being wrong for this message board, when all our other therian discussions have not been.

No, I didn't say that just because this particular thread 'managed to stir up controversy', because I think don't think therianthropy really should be discussed at all here. Yes, on the topic of werewolves, and the fact that a lot of us here are one, therianthropy has become rather unavoidable. Yet I don't think therianthropy needs to be discussed or reflected upon in dept on a werewolf forum. If someone wants a serious discussion about therianthropy, they should visit a therianthropy forum.

Now, lets all be friends and enjoy each others company, okay?

Oh yes indeed, shall we?

[Scott Gardener]

First, a brief blurb about the in-fighting. OH, STOP IT! Now that that's out of the way, I'm going to proceed to my interview.

How do you, as a therianthrope, define therianthropy?

I doubt this will come as much of a surprise to you at this point, but the first thing I have to observe about the therianthropy movement is that it's a very controversial one. Simply trying to define it generates conflict within its community.

(Yes, I know that's not what the above fighting was about, but, it does still drive home my point.)

Therianthropy is most simply a modern Internet movement that follows an age-old, indeed ancient premise, that some of us as humans have the souls of other animals. The statement sounds simple enough, but it raises questions deeply routed in religion and personal beliefs: What is a soul? Do other animals have souls? Do souls even exist? Not all people agree, and many therians may prefer I phrase it a different way--perhaps using the word "spirit" instead of "soul," or defining it less as transmigration and more as purely from an identity perspective.

How do you feel about being a therian?

Therianthropy is a useful label to describe something I have already felt to be true prior to finding out that others felt the same way. It is strangely reassuring to learn that others have the same fascination with shape-shifting, the same identification with other animals, and the same quirks that I have grown up to assume as unique to me.

Do you feel invisible in society?

Less so than the following questions would appear to assume. But, rather than using therianthropy as a means of divorcing myself from humanity, as most of us therians tend to do, I see it as a way of relating to humans.

I am a wolf therian. Conveniently, wolves and humans have a lot in common, and the two evolved side-by-side. In the last few thousand years, this partnership may have degenerated in many places, but even then, the domestic dog descended from this alliance. And, humans are starting to repair the damage done to wild wolves, even as they continue to cause more. It's a strange paradox.

Interacting with humans not only as a human myself but also as a wolf in human form allows me to objectify certain social elements. In most social situations, humans subconsciously follow the same pack harmonics as wolves. By becoming consciously aware of these dynamics, I am better able to work with them, to resolve and prevent conflicts. As a physician working in an emergency department, this diplomacy skill comes very much in handy.

Wolves organize themselves into an alpha male, an alpha female, and a heirarchal rank in descending positions. People tend to do the same. Watch the next time you attend a convention, get summoned to jury duty, or get into any situation where you meet new people. One person will tend to assume a leadership position, and others will follow. Most conflicts tend to center around two people competing for the same rank, usually alpha or beta.

In short, most conflicts are emotional ones, not neccessarily ideological ones. People with diametrically opposed beliefs can be civil around each other. I know, because I've done it. Some of my best associates think I'm ultimately destined to go to Hell, but they're kind and civil, and we exchange gifts. Human social interaction, like wolves, is about knowing when to be an alpha and when to let someone else have the spot.

Are there social reasons for this invisibility? What prevents you from being seen?

Most of my invisibility is conscious and planned. I do not openly advertise my therianthropy in direct social situations. I acknowledge the irony, since I am admitting it openly here, on a forum accessable by people around the world. But, here, it is an accepted and understood norm. In society at large today, it is an unorthodox concept that would require explaining above and beyond, and I feel it is best left for those who have already gotten to know me.

What difficulties (if any) do you face by being invisible?

I face very few difficulties, because it's an easy secret to keep, with comparatively little risk involved--quite different from, hypothetically speaking of course, being an actual biological werewolf. Being a wolf therian will tend to make me quirky, but most physicians are already eccentric. Being self-employed, I'm allowed a lot more leeway than an employee who has to look busy when the boss walks by, just as long as I don't scare the patients--and they're not generally there with me to talk about me or my issues, anyway, so it has yet to come up. The nurses know that I have strange interests and that I've written an unpublished werewolf novel. I've shown them the Freeborn teaser and talked about meeting the people working on the movie. Therianthropy is an added detail they don't need to know at this time.

What do you think makes someone a therian?

Ultimately, it is a matter of identity. A therianthrope is a person who identifies with one or more particular animal forms, and who mentally assumes certain aspects of that form, be it through lucid dreaming (or unintentionally in regular dreams), through meditations, or even just through simple visualization during regular day-to-day activities. I spend most of the time mentally in part-wolf form. I have conditioned myself to notice scents more. Some of us claim to have enhanced senses or other unusual abilities; I will refrain from doing so, as I have no means of proving it.

Most people, when I tell them I’m doing a project on therians, tend to look at me funny... but they are all very curious about the topic. What would you tell them about your therianthropy? (aka: what would you want people to know about you/what would people see if they could see you?)

Although it's a reinvention of something that probably dates back long before the dawn of history, therianthropy is a contemporary Internet movement. Most therians have made a shared decision to recommend to a newcomer or inquirer to review the information about us on the Internet. Granted, conflicting sources will make a review of the subject initially even more confusing. I would recommend Wikipedia's entry for "therianthropy" as a comparatively neutral starting point.

Anything else you want to tell me that you think might help me "reveal" therians to society?

The therianthropy movement is one of many closely related movements. The "otherkin" movement is similar but more generalized--it consists of people who identify with being non-human in essence, and may in part represent a reaction against the direction mainstream society appears to be taking the course of human evolution. We parallel the Wiccan religion and other forms of Paganism--a religion that is peaceful and focused on nature worship and elaborate forms of creative visualization, but unorthodox and intimidating to the lay public because of propaganda by its adversaries, erroneously associating it with cults and Satanism. (A disproportionate number of us, myself included, are in fact Wiccans.) Therianthropy also parallels other movements such as "vampyres"--people who identify with the mythical immortal race, or "furries," what could arguably be described as an art and lifestyle movement that centers around anthropomorphic animal character personas.

Any other important things that you think I should include in my project?

Buy my book? No, I'll resist such a shameless plug.

Rather, I'll point out that there is strong evidence that early nomadic hunters practiced mental shape-shifting techniques that may have been virtually identical to what we do today as therians, and it seems to have worked, as humans are still around today.

Note also in that I am resisting the common therian temptation to deny being human. My humanity is an inescapable biological fact. Rather, therianthropy is a way of reconnecting as a human with the rest of the animal kingdom. We exist as a reminder that humans are animals, and that the sense of seperation is an illusion. Some day, evolution, genetic engineering, and other technologies may make our descendants into something else, but humans are animals, and some of us still take pride in our heritage.

[Leighlia]

Well, finally now that all the pointless arguing is over, someone has something intelligent to say. Well spoken Scott!

[Kirk Hammett]

Well Scott, the similarity of your answers to mine (I sent Darkmoon a private message) is astounding! It is an internet movement and I said so, and Im interested to see you agree!

I did not know therianthope was a touchy subject. I'm not really talkative about it on this board, I guess. Sometimes mention it, but I did feel people probably wouldn't like it, and I am looking through that flame war now...I'm afraid of mentioning it again.

I guess topic closed eh

[Scott Gardener]

It's amazing how much people resist the idea of labels for themselves, even though we readily label everyone and everything else. I, for one, find labels useful for helping to define my own elements and aspects.

I guess a lot of the controversy has to do with conflicts among our own personal dictionaries. What's a nasty word to one person is a high compliment to the next. That, and we quibble about philosophical differences as well, with things like the Crusades or terrorist Jyhads.

[Set]

I did not know therianthope was a touchy subject.

Therianthropy is a belief. When you're dealing with people's beliefs, it's always a touchy subject.