Could a Werecreature survive with only a Gestalt form?

[Morkulv]

Im not sure the wolf would be bullied. Who the hell would pick on a razor sharp toothed tall creature? The guy would probably grow up to be an assassin or something. Or a well paid mercenary or thief or something. He or she was never accepted before, and will choose a job that is unacceptable too.

I agree.

[vrikasatma]

Humans are interesting, psychologically-speaking. If we get enough of us together, we can be incredibly courageous. Witness, war.

Also, bullies tend to have an interesting profile. There are people who have a mentality that makes the connection: "I am small, you are big. If I knock you down, by some mechanic of metaphysics, I will be that much bigger." In said bully, that's the survival mechanism gone awry and applied to evil ends.

It never starts with overt violence. If a single bully attacked a gestalt werewolf, punching and blood, yeah, he steps up to receive the Darwin Award. But bullies never act alone, they always have a support cadre or at least tacit compliance.

It starts with simple refusal to see the target as another human being and if a bully and his cadre get a gestalt werewolf kid target in their sights, they'd have incontrovertible proof of that assumption. Non-human status accorded then translates to contemptuous social interaction ("Hey, freak!"). Abusive language is shocking at first but if the hecklers survive the first round, then they pick up the habit and the werewolf kid hears "Hey, freak!" on a regular basis and gradually, day in and day out without cessation, in perpetuum, it gets worse.

After shunning and shaming comes scapegoating where the hecklers lay every sin, real or imagined, at the feet of the target. This can get extremely demoralizing very quickly and certainly the target's self-esteem will be eroded. Those who don't believe in themselves tend to submit. Under attack from a bully and his cadre, submission will be read as carte blanche to open up and let 'em have it. Those who don't have a lot of self-esteem to begin with fall quickly, but anyone can fall under a barrage like that, even if they have the will of the gods. It's only a matter of time and since the bullies know in their heart of hearts that they're playing a dangerous game, they won't back down. They'll keep at it until they achieve their objective of turning their target into a cringing varlet. Once that's accomplished, verbal abuse turns to physical abuse: pinching, tripping, fisticuffs, and in extreme cases even lethal force is involved: vandalizing the target's locker, setting fire to their hair/clothes, bone-breakage, knife attack.

That's an extreme case. There's a new word in sociology, it's called "Bullycide." Basically a kid is so bullied that he commits suicide, possibly attempting to take his tormentor along for the ride. That's what Columbine was.

[bloodwolf_345]

Humans are interesting, psychologically-speaking. If we get enough of us together, we can be incredibly courageous. Witness, war.

Also, bullies tend to have an interesting profile. There are people who have a mentality that makes the connection: "I am small, you are big. If I knock you down, by some mechanic of metaphysics, I will be that much bigger." In said bully, that's the survival mechanism gone awry and applied to evil ends.

It never starts with overt violence. If a single bully attacked a gestalt werewolf, punching and blood, yeah, he steps up to receive the Darwin Award. But bullies never act alone, they always have a support cadre or at least tacit compliance.

It starts with simple refusal to see the target as another human being and if a bully and his cadre get a gestalt werewolf kid target in their sights, they'd have incontrovertible proof of that assumption. Non-human status accorded then translates to contemptuous social interaction ("Hey, freak!"). Abusive language is shocking at first but if the hecklers survive the first round, then they pick up the habit and the werewolf kid hears "Hey, freak!" on a regular basis and gradually, day in and day out without cessation, in perpetuum, it gets worse.

After shunning and shaming comes scapegoating where the hecklers lay every sin, real or imagined, at the feet of the target. This can get extremely demoralizing very quickly and certainly the target's self-esteem will be eroded. Those who don't believe in themselves tend to submit. Under attack from a bully and his cadre, submission will be read as carte blanche to open up and let 'em have it. Those who don't have a lot of self-esteem to begin with fall quickly, but anyone can fall under a barrage like that, even if they have the will of the gods. It's only a matter of time and since the bullies know in their heart of hearts that they're playing a dangerous game, they won't back down. They'll keep at it until they achieve their objective of turning their target into a cringing varlet. Once that's accomplished, verbal abuse turns to physical abuse: pinching, tripping, fisticuffs, and in extreme cases even lethal force is involved: vandalizing the target's locker, setting fire to their hair/clothes, bone-breakage, knife attack.

That's an extreme case. There's a new word in sociology, it's called "Bullycide." Basically a kid is so bullied that he commits suicide, possibly attempting to take his tormentor along for the ride. That's what Columbine was.

Good point of view. It seems that you looked at it through the eyes of a psychologist. This is one of those topics that goes deeper than just the social effect on others, but the psychological. There are people out there who would be stupid enough to do something like that. I speak from being a victim of bullying myself(which continued well into middle school, where after getting my head slammed in a locker I chased down and tackled the offender). After retalliation, the bullies will not be to eager to try anything like that again.

The term "FREAK" has one meaning today, one who is not like someone else. These bullies see faults in themselves and vent their inadiquacies and fears on others. This world would be much better off if those who bully would stop and take a good hard look at themselves. The inability to face their inner demons is why they are the way they are. If the victims fight back from the start, the bullies lose the stronghold of control they wish to gain.

good job
I would love to know what other kind of views you have for a positive side to this query

[Morkulv]

Humans are interesting, psychologically-speaking. If we get enough of us together, we can be incredibly courageous. Witness, war.

Humans can be a lot stronger then you might think. I think I saw this once on Discovery, were a man was put in a room with a steel door. Outside that room was a kind of drug he 'needed'. A few days later, the door was rammed out of the walls.

I think most people just have a low self-esteem, even without noticing it.

[bloodwolf_345]

Two words.
"Throw rug"

Considering his parents are werewolves, and the whole silver thing is a load of pigsh*t, there is not much you could do to turn the Gestalt into a throw rug, without you becoming his/hers.[/quote]

[Apokryltaros]

Don't underestimate the destructive abilities of a bunch of drunken rednecks who also happen to be armed with hunting rifles and shotguns.

[Timber-WoIf]

Considering his parents are werewolves, and the whole silver thing is a load of pigsh*t, there is not much you could do to turn the Gestalt into a throw rug, without you becoming his/hers.

this assumes the werewolf is like a super-hero and immune to normal bullets. (which is lame)

[bloodwolf_345]

Don't underestimate the destructive abilities of a bunch of drunken rednecks who also happen to be armed with hunting rifles and shotguns.

How quickly we forget that Werewolves cannot be killed by mere bullets. Injured yes, killed no. The Gestalt only person has all the abilities of a Werewolf with none of the weaknesses. But you do make a good point here, drunkeness leads to rash actions

[Apokryltaros]

Don't underestimate the destructive abilities of a bunch of drunken rednecks who also happen to be armed with hunting rifles and shotguns.

How quickly we forget that Werewolves cannot be killed by mere bullets. Injured yes, killed no. The Gestalt only person has all the abilities of a Werewolf with none of the weaknesses. But you do make a good point here, drunkeness leads to rash actions

How quickly we also forget that the knowledge of werewolves being vulnerable to silver is almost as well-known as the knowledge that water is wet. Underestimating humans is a great way to get killed. If a bunch of drunken hunters were out shooting deer, but came across a werewolf, yes, chances are good that they'll be slaughtered to the last slob. If a bunch of drunken hunters are out to lynch that guy who outted himself as being a werewolf, dinars to donuts says that they're going to melt down their silverware to make ammunition, or, even, at the very least, stuff a couple of heirloom forks and knives down their shotguns. The idea of someone in this day and age setting out to hunt a werewolf without arming him or herself with silver is like setting out to bake a cake without bothering to get flour or water.

[bloodwolf_345]

Don't underestimate the destructive abilities of a bunch of drunken rednecks who also happen to be armed with hunting rifles and shotguns.

How quickly we forget that Werewolves cannot be killed by mere bullets. Injured yes, killed no. The Gestalt only person has all the abilities of a Werewolf with none of the weaknesses. But you do make a good point here, drunkeness leads to rash actions

How quickly we also forget that the knowledge of werewolves being vulnerable to silver is almost as well-known as the knowledge that water is wet. Underestimating humans is a great way to get killed. If a bunch of drunken hunters were out shooting deer, but came across a werewolf, yes, chances are good that they'll be slaughtered to the last slob. If a bunch of drunken hunters are out to lynch that guy who outted himself as being a werewolf, dinars to donuts says that they're going to melt down their silverware to make ammunition, or, even, at the very least, stuff a couple of heirloom forks and knives down their shotguns. The idea of someone in this day and age setting out to hunt a werewolf without arming him or herself with silver is like setting out to bake a cake without bothering to get flour or water.

Would you not consider a silver ALLERGY a weakness?

[Apokryltaros]

I don't understand what you're getting at.
What do you mean by silver allergy not being a weakness?
Are you saying that werewolves are unstoppable killing machines that can not be opposed by the pathetic insects that are humans?

If so, then why bother with hiding? Why not just have the werewolf just lord it over the weak and pathetically helpless humans, then?

Or are you saying that people aren't allowed to hunt werewolves with silver? In that, giving humans an edge so that they can stand a chance of surviving is unfair to the werewolf?

[Shadow Wulf]

Your going a little to far Apokryltaros, you really should stop being (please excuse me for saying this, its the only word that pops in mind) Bitchy. Thats hes idea of a werewolf, dont conflict with it too much.

[bloodwolf_345]

Your going a little to far Apokryltaros, you really should stop being (please excuse me for saying this, its the only word that pops in mind) Bitchy. Thats hes idea of a werewolf, dont conflict with it too much.

Exactly! The point of this topic is mans basic prejudism. Man has come to partly accept Werewolves as being here, and they can't do much about it. It is like how African-Americans were treated back in the 50's and 60's and to some extent, still are today. It is also like how the Native Americans are being treated. What would they have to face then. The basic strengths of Werwolves(and any other kind of Werecreature) still apply, but the weaknesses are voided by the human part of him/her. I.E. Silver being lethal, controlled by the moon(though many werewolves overcome that), and so on. This is all about the prejudices that they would face, and what trouble might they run into in an everyday situation.

I hope this has cleared things up for you Apokryltaros. Let's see what you can take the ball and run with from this extended explanation.

[Shadow Wulf]

Well, I kinda like the idea of silver being vulnrable to werewolves and at the same time I hate it, its good for movies. I like my werewolves to lean a little more on the scientific side than fantasy. On the magical note I like my werewolves to regenerate certain limbs, I dont mind the wall climbing, and I like them to gain lots of muscle mass. On the more scientific note, I think that you should be able to kill a werewolves even without the use of silver, like in Underworld werewolves, you can kill them with silver cause its more effective but a regular machine gun can finish them off but excesivly damaging the vital organs. My idea of a werewolf can be killed by a regular bullet you got to shoot in the head, hear, lung and any other thing that can kill a person instantly. Everyone knows that full moon goes with the werewolf one way or another so I think we can all agree that a newly bitten will change on the first full moon.

[Apokryltaros]

What is there to back off of?
He's saying that people aren't allowed to use silver to fight werewolves.

[bloodwolf_345]

What is there to back off of?
He's saying that people aren't allowed to use silver to fight werewolves.

I'm just saying people have accepted it, but aren't willng to allow them into society, as I said, like prejudism.

[Apokryltaros]

Well, whenever I make a joke about lycanthropes and upholstery, I intend it to be just a joke, not a racial slur, nor a declaration of genocide. Don't make me out to be the spokesvampire of the Klu Klux Klan just because I like making jokes about lycanthropes and upholstery, please.

[CanisLupus]

My suggestion of a future timeline, based on our history:

2007: people discovers that werewolves exist. Total chaos, fear and rage. People will not even remember that the WWs are still human.

2031: After researches, the science will reveal that the lycanthropy is caused by a virus. Obviously, the government will maintain this as a secret, instiganting a huge technological development for controlling the werewolves. Silver surpass dollar and gold as world's economic base.

2069- The first werewolf control collar is finally created, and used for slavery. Fugitive slaves runs for the forests and creates "packs", groups of free werewolves and werewolves that escapes from their owners. The worst time ever, when werewolves are treatened as objects, their sons are sold and all human cruelty is exerced. Due to the lack of silver, people uses no more guns. Now the primal weapon are silver blades and other weapons that requires no ammunition.

2115- After constant werewolves revolutions claiming for freedom, the first countries start to banish the werewolves slavery. The silver commerce colapses.

2235- the last countries banish the slavery. Science start mass study of the werewolves. The Nobel prize of science goes to the first man who manages to isolate the lycantropy virus.

2250- huge lycantropy scientific study. Sociologists start to study the Werewolf culture and society. Racism starts to reduce. First werewolf wins a Prime Minister election, on Australia.

2400- Society on his way of getting back from normal, now with more acceptance of werewolves. Werewolf KKK is considered illegeal.

2600- The humanity goes back to what we know today. The racism is high, but still reducing. Werewolves are accepted by society. Huge number of WW reality shows.

-----

It needs some fixings, but the essence is there.

[Shadow Wulf]

What is there to back off of?
He's saying that people aren't allowed to use silver to fight werewolves.

Huh? well thats just hog wash.

[Scott Gardener]

My own timeline speeds along a bit faster. Granted, there's some wrenches thrown in the works.

Over the next few years- Werewolf sightings increase in number. The therianthropy movement gains ground, and an independent film gains an enormous cult following. Werewolves become a quitch pop-culture icon, and rumors circulate about several in captivity and more on the run from various government agencies.

December 10, 2012 ("Twelve-ten-twelve," "December Tenth")- Two werewolves, Scott Gardener and Elodea Taylor, come forward and appear on a live broadcast from Seattle. They shift form and prove their existance, and then reveal that they have escaped from a secret lab, prisoners there, where an organization known as "Blue Sentinel" keeps away from society various paranormal phenomena, including proof of alien life, ESP, and the like. Over the next few days, the world is thrown into chaos.

2013-2015- Radicals and fanatics dominate the news, from religious groups convinced that the "Beast of Revelations" has revealed itself and the end of the world is at hand, to those who see werewolves as the next step in human evolution, and who go out of their way to infect people willy-nilly. The same werewolves who came forward in Seattle form the Lycanthrope Global Freedom Federation, an organization intended to protect lycanthropic civil rights, while encouraging werewolves to work with instead of against human society. They concentrate their efforts in the United States, challenging the particular government organization that held him prisoner for five years. A Congressional investigation breaks down Blue Sentinel and its sponsors, both international corporations and various government sub-groups domestic and abroad.

2016-2020- The world, having not ended, remains tense. Werewolf cultures start to emerge, a spin-off of pre-December Twelfth therianthropy and a larger "Awakening" movement that includes psychics and metaphysically inclined people. Meanwhile, radicals lose it. Fundamentalist churches organize hunts, and the Middle East becomes even more unstable than it already is. A radical faction from there sets off a nuclear "dirty bomb" in Beijing, and the Chinese government retaliates with three thermonuclear bombs in Pakistan and Iran, followed by an occupation. The United States and Russia lodge formal complaints, and the European Union gives them a funny look. Meanwhile, the scientific community gains ground in studying the lycanthrope "virus," as previously secret research is made public. By 2020, a museum of the paranormal is opened in Groom Lake, Nevada.

2021-2035- The chaos starts to settle down, and werewolves become a growing "minority" group, complete with their own slang, music, clothing--or lack thereof, and so forth.

Werewolf hate groups gradually lose ground after this, as the total number of people infected levels off around 5% of the world population. There's still some racism equivalent for awhile. But all seems to be pretty good until 2065, when the extraterrestrial creators of lycanthropy show up in a moon-sized dreadnaut and lay seige to Earth for about four months. The invasion is ultimately repelled, but the damage done changes the power structure of Earth government, and creates a lot of hard feelings about lycanthropes.

[CanisLupus]

hey, I think I would make a topic with the timelines. In fact, I will make one tight now.

[23Jarden]

but because of some fluke with the genes, the child was born stuck in Gestalt form.

I feel sorry for his Mom.

OT: Now: MASS HYSTERIA
Then: "Can you try not being a werewolf"
Far from now: "Well that sucks."

I think the doctor would be eliminated and the family would move to a rural location.

[Kirk Hammett]

2250- huge lycantropy scientific study. Sociologists start to study the Werewolf culture and society. Racism starts to reduce. First werewolf wins a president election, on Australia.

We have a Prime Minister here (A jackass...well he tries but he fails badly at his job, in most areas) not a President. But I must say...YES! Australia first to accept werewolf prime minister! Or I guess if in that year it's president or King or Queen

Haha. Australia is just as racist as America no matter what they say. Im not racist, but Im appauled at my country personally.

[vrikasatma]

My bet would be on either Germany electing a Chancellor, Sweden electing a Prime Minister, or a high-up official in the U.N.

We would know Satan is hitching up the team and sleighing to work if a werewolf (Vel Vrika!) gets elected Prime Minister of India! They hate wolves more than anyone else (keep that in mind next time you read <i>The Jungle Books</i>)!

[Fenrir]

Wait a minute here if it only had one form it's not a werecreature it's something new....