Sunflower Debate

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:06 pm

Recently, my livejournal friends and I were having a debate about the character Sunflower from Fantasia. It concerns when and why film originals should be left intact, or changed, and whether Disney has the right to released Fantasia as the "original uncut theater edition" when in fact it isn't. If you don't know who Sunflower is, here are some links:

Disney and Censorship - A Match Made in Hell

The Character that Disney Cut From Fantasia

Animation Drawing of Zebra Centaurette from Fantasia

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:56 pm

Two things and then I'm out:

1) Don't call it uncut if it is cut.

2) What's more racist: depicting black people, or denying their existence completely?

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:41 pm

*shakes head* Completely ridiculous

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:48 am

I'm also a preservationist. That was the cultural climate of the time. It should be preserved. If you hate it today, then see it as a reminder of just how far we've come.

Will people a century from now insist on censoring movies like American Werewolf in London because the genetically engineered wolf anthropomorph community see it as racist?

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:26 pm

Scott Gardener wrote:I'm also a preservationist. That was the cultural climate of the time. It should be preserved. If you hate it today, then see it as a reminder of just how far we've come.

Will people a century from now insist on censoring movies like American Werewolf in London because the genetically engineered wolf anthropomorph community see it as racist?

Perhaps a century from now, people will want to delete all scenes that show Asians doing people's nails, or they'll want to delete all scenes of Apu from "Simpsons" because a convienience store owner from India is a total stereotype.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:10 pm

There were black centaurs in the film, but they were African, not the Step'n Fetchit stereotype that Sunflower was. Remember the zebra-centaurettes fanning Bacchus as he arrives on the scene?

Personally I'm glad she was cut because if she wasn't, Fantasia would be right down there in the Oubliyet with Song of the South: hasn't been released, never will be, according to the Disney board. It's been a good 35 years since I've seen SotS, but from what I remember it wasn't anymore racist than, say, Gerschwin's Porgy and Bess.

The inclusion of a "jigaboo" character wasn't a sign of the times. In 1940, slavery was long since outlawed, and alongside the free, proud and handsome zebra centaurettes would have looked ridiculous.

Fantasia was actually a pretty daring film. Take a look at "Night On Bald Mountain" sequence: it was rife with sensuality. The harpies were topless and hanging right out there! Flames exploding up from Chernabog's crotch! The flames in his hands of the three dancing women were nude figures and changed into three beasts that represent Lust in its various aspects. They didn't show it explicitly but it doesn't take a lot of between-the-lines-reading to know that the sequence was depicting an orgy.

That having been said...I'll have to look it up but I believe Greece practiced slavery and Rome certainly did, so in light of the scene's Graeco-Roman zeitgeist having a slave would have been topical (but if they did, good ol' Ludwig Van would have spun in his grave).