They are at it again *sigh*

Short Tail · Post by **Short Tail** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:06 pm

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... -headlines
I for one think this case should be thrown out because no matter which way the ruling goes, it will have very serious and very bad repercussions.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:07 pm

I just want to vent on this, it's some fusteration that's been building up in side of me.

IT"S NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!! Why do we need to put some much energy on is it right for guy to like guys? It's their business not ours!! they just need to shove it up their up tight asses and shut up! If they like some one of the same sex it their dicision, and we have no right to say that their sexual preferances should be. And those Homophobes that say it's wrong amd its against nature and blah blah BLAH! need to be shot! WHY CAN WE JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Set · Post by **Set** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:35 pm

... *hugs Anubis* Dude, you just said everything I wanted to say without tearing down the entire religion, pointing out its flaws, contradictions, and the fact that people like that are bigoted assholes which would ultimately make someone cry like I would have.

Sheesh. They don't have to like it, but they really need to find something else to obsess over. Like God. (Instead of Jesus, whom they treat like God, but who isn't. Weird people.) If they put half the effort they put into bashing gays toward helping people the world would be a much nicer place. And I wouldn't have as much to b**** about.

Short Tail · Post by **Short Tail** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:43 pm

One person responded on the LJ I found this on saying: "I miss the days when we [christians] were fed to lions and actualy had something valid to b**** about."

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:25 am

Where to begin? I shall now continue "preaching to the choir."

1. Homosexuality and what's "natural": The facts are, we've found it in every mammalian species in which we've looked for it. It would be more unnatural for humans not to do it. And, since when did nature ever get in the way of fundamentalism? I thought nature to them was something to be dominated over anyway.

2. Am I the only one who sees disturbing similarities between Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam? Am I the only one who notices that both the leaders of the Republican regime in America are saying and doing things that parallel the Taliban? Ashcroft covering the statue of justice's exposed breast... Bush's describing his narrow election as a "divine providence"... and the 1984ish use of "double-think" and revisions of the recent past?

3. When you put 1 and 2 together, can't one see a bit of a hypocracy in the persecution of homosexuals, based purely on a stance supported only by a religious doctorine? How is that any different than the fanatic violence of the Palestinians against Israel or the Al Qaeda terrorists against the civilized world in general? Where's the difference?

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:39 am

Scott:

1. Complete agreement, no further comment.

2. You're not the only one who noticed that. I was thinking "Taliban" while I read the article. The only thing that did surprise me was they didn't invoke the Puritans who "founded this country" (snork, snicker, Republik of Vinland). Or maybe they did and that article didn't cite it.

3. There is no difference.

Bottom line: they can be Christian, and I'll continue to be Pagan. Guys kissing each other doesn't stop them from being Christian or heterosexual, it does not have a severe impact on their individual lives. I know this because it doesn't impact my life adversely and I know of no-one whose day-to-day livelihood is detrimentally affected by the existence of homosexuality.

And yes, they have to keep their beliefs to themselves when they're out in the world because there is a thing called "tolerance!" Which is what Jesus preached! And yes, they're being called "intolerant" because they ARE being intolerant!

Right...I have to be up with the birds to go to Market tomorrow. Goodnight, all.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:59 am

Meh...I think a much better course of action would be to contribute funding to researchers who are studying the cause of homosexuality. It would be far better to prevent people from being born gay or from becoming gay than to attack them once they already are.

But, those people have a point. There is such a thing in this country called free speech...and I don't think the government has a right to favor one group over the other.

An inaccurate comparison would be that the Ku Klux Klan is still allowed to have parades and rallies to this day. (The reason it's inaccurate is because the Klan operates out of pure hate, not in conformity to their religious beliefs).

Set wrote:Sheesh. They don't have to like it, but they really need to find something else to obsess over. Like God. (Instead of Jesus, whom they treat like God, but who isn't. Weird people.) If they put half the effort they put into bashing gays toward helping people the world would be a much nicer place. And I wouldn't have as much to b**** about.

This, I do agree with.

Personally, I don't question their legal (though not necessarily logical) right to verbally bash gays, but I do question their time management skills...their time could definitely be much better spent.

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:13 am

OMG it's just like the whole racist thing, fifty years ago people said that it was in the bible that black people were lesser, well i guess those people needed something new to complain about!

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:54 pm

I think the passage was about it being alright to take slaves from other nations. That's classic tribalistic mindset, actually: Our Group are The People, the only Humans. Everyone else — well, they're not animals, but they're not human, because they're not Us.

When I think of my ancestor Reverend Wilhelm Reidenhaus, signing the Germantown Compact that decries slavery as an abomination and never owning slaves, what a statement that was. Back in the early 1700s, for the most part, if you didn't own slaves you were a slave yourself. And for a man of the cloth to stand up and deliver a condemnation of something that was in the Bible, publicly — oooh, yeah. That old guy had cojones for himself and fourteen others...

Set · Post by **Set** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:34 am

Renorei wrote:Meh...I think a much better course of action would be to contribute funding to researchers who are studying the cause of homosexuality. It would be far better to prevent people from being born gay or from becoming gay than to attack them once they already are.

According to my mother being gay is a choice, not something you're born as. If that's the case then what's the point in wasting the money?

Why do that anyway? That's like trying to find a "cure" for being black. There's nothing wrong with it, it's not hurting anyone, it's a part of nature, so why try and change it? What you're proposing is not only playing god, it's insulting and a violation of personal rights.

The "conform or else" mindset reminds me too much of the Necromongers from The Cronicles Of Riddick.

23Jarden · Post by **23Jarden** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:19 pm

Anubis wrote:I just want to vent on this, it's some fusteration that's been building up in side of me.

IT"S NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!! Why do we need to put some much energy on is it right for guy to like guys? It's their business not ours!! they just need to shove it up their up tight asses and shut up! If they like some one of the same sex it their dicision, and we have no right to say that their sexual preferances should be. And those Homophobes that say it's wrong amd its against nature and blah blah BLAH! need to be shot! WHY CAN WE JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll raise my glass to that! Harrasing G/L's is like harrasing minorities and women! I always thought it was funny that black people are called minorities. Aren't their more colored people in the world then anyone else? Harrasing gays... Frog swallop! While we're at let's hold stonings and public executions!

These people make me sick.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:58 pm

I didn't bother reading the article.

I have only one problem with scott's post:

it's not 'republicans'.

ANY end is bad. ANy end comes out to no freedom. the liberal end is 'we tell you what to do becuase we know best." the conservative end is "we tell you what to do because god tells us what to do". neither end is any better than the other. Frankly, i don't think either the democratic or republican party is 'evil'. i'm half-and-half, myself. it's just that the fanatics always yell loudest- AND the normal people tend to only know the normal people on their side and ignore the fanatics on their side.

Just my observation.

Other than that, though, total agreement. fundamental Christianity is just as dysfunctional as Fundamental Islam. I havent read the koran but the bible is full of... well, i won't get into it. but the wider applications make more sense than the strict 'word of god' as stated in the bible.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:58 am

What happen to the expression, "dont ask, dont tell"? Serously they are all just a bunch of hypocrypts.

Lyco · Post by **Lyco** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:48 am

ugg... religion. Does humanity really need more ways of deviding it's self?

23Jarden · Post by **23Jarden** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:18 pm

Humanity has always been divided. Humanity has also always been afriad of change.

Set · Post by **Set** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:14 pm

23Jarden wrote:Humanity has also always been afriad of change.

Indeed. They act like it's the worst thing in the world even if it's what they need. Christians, for whatever reason, seem especially bad about that.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:12 pm

Set wrote:
Renorei wrote:Meh...I think a much better course of action would be to contribute funding to researchers who are studying the cause of homosexuality. It would be far better to prevent people from being born gay or from becoming gay than to attack them once they already are.
According to my mother being gay is a choice, not something you're born as. If that's the case then what's the point in wasting the money?

Why do that anyway? That's like trying to find a "cure" for being black. There's nothing wrong with it, it's not hurting anyone, it's a part of nature, so why try and change it? What you're proposing is not only playing god, it's insulting and a violation of personal rights.

The "conform or else" mindset reminds me too much of the Necromongers from The Cronicles Of Riddick.

It's actually the subject of debate as to wether homosexuality can be attributed as a genetic trait, but considering all the negativity associated with homosexuality, those that are homosexual usually claim to have gone through an identity crisis of some sort before accepting that they are gay. It makes sense -- with all the negative thought circulating towards homosexuality in the world, why would anyone choose to?

I'm going to be a hypocrite though and say that it's not a matter of wether or not we are born heterosexual or homosexual, but wether we are born masculine or feminine. America as a society has categorized virtually everything into being for guys or being for girls, so if, at an early age, a boy shows any interest in something feminine or a girl shows any interest in anything masculine, we are conditioned to refer to that as a homosexual activity.

I remember in junior high, one girl told all of her friends that I was gay, and her proof was that I had curly hair, which I've had for as long as I can remember (if I had a scanner, I'd have uploaded a baby picture to support this). Later in my freshman year of highschool, a group of four or five guys somehow succeeded in convincing the entire Freshman class (of roughly 300) that I was gay, and their only proof in that case was that I'd failed to give a definitive answer to the question "which Spice girl do you want to *wink-wink* the most?" In this case, I was labled gay, not because I did anything overly feminine, but because I wasn't enough of a male chauvenist pig for their liking.

It's probably only because I've been a schizoid since I was three years old that I didn't take all that talk seriously. Others went, are going through and will go through their school years getting accused of being gay just as much as, if not more than I was, and more often than not their going to listen to those accusations and give it some serious thought.

America doesn't need a pill to cure homosexuality. Instead America needs to accept that just because a guy likes poetry does not mean he likes it in the back.

But back on topic, this definitely shouldn't be a political issue, though I will state that if she wants oh so badly to lash out against homosexuals, I think she should at least wait until two guys make a point of making out right in front of her. That's the deal as far as I understand: we won't kiss in public if you stay the hell out of our bedrooms.

Short Tail · Post by **Short Tail** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:17 pm

Set wrote:According to my mother being gay is a choice, not something you're born as.

I would disagree with that whole heartedly. What person would make the choice to put themselves into the situation of the closet homosexual, afraid of how their very parents might react? No disrespect twards your mother intended, but how can one choose what they are attracted to. As a final word on this, those whom I know that are gay when asked said it was not their choice.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:49 pm

i know how you feel a couple of guys started a roomer that i was gay, but i politely asked him to stop with my fist.

I don't know how is some becomes gay, all i know it's some thing to do with our senteit mind, because do you know any gay animals!? any way being gay is a choice IS NOT realistic who would purpusly choose to be that way?

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:55 pm

Homosexuality IS NOT a question of choice.

It has been scientifically <b>proven</b> to be an inborn tendency. It has been found in every animate, chordate life form we've observed. It is a natural and very gentle form of population control. The animal kingdom figured out millions of years ago that if they had a hardwired means of preventing conception, then their populations were less likely to starve to death or get hammered by rampant disease.

Homosexuality is a survival strategy.

[walks off muttering about star-bellied Sneetches]

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:57 pm

-people who have had bad expiriences with opposite gender (think women who have been raped, here, or any otehr situation that fits)

there are others. I'm not sure if it would be considered approptiate.

Also, there are definite conencton between scent and attractiveness. There are also physical differences in the brain between females and males.

Anotehr thing is that it seems to me that more people are insulted by the idea of two men than two women. Women seem to be easier on this topic...

Or maybe women have read the dictionary and undertsand that not all 'love' is romantic and pertaining to reproduction!

Ink · Post by **Ink** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:15 pm

As much as I don't want to hear Christians breaking down doors anymore, I sure as hell don't want to listen to the gays preach about themselves.

Yes, it's wonderful, you like the same sex.
Yes, it's wonderful, you like to listen to yourselves talk.
Yes, it's all wonderful, isn't it now?

I would, in fact, like not to hear anyone preach about how wrong or right or perfect or imperfect or whatever it is that they want to preach about.

As free speech would have it, here we all are. I'm not going to condemn leaders or misalign radicals and politics or mis-label the rights and wrongs in this case because it's simply six to one, half a dozen to another.

Nobody's making novel statements here. Best if we let the courts settle it because, honestly, I will merely tolerate the existance of others, accepting it is another factor that is decided PERSONALLY before it is culturally.

Be they christians, gays, asexualists, activists, radicals, annoyances, friday night teenyboppers & prosti-tots - Who the f*** cares?

They're all out for some attention nibbling. I mean, it honestly got all of us to take a look.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:19 am

Mneh edit!

Set · Post by **Set** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:17 am

Anubis wrote:I don't know how is some becomes gay, all i know it's some thing to do with our senteit mind, because do you know any gay animals!?

Plenty, actually. In everything from cockatoos to squid. Male lions in particular seem especially inclined towards it. (which makes Narnia bloody hilarious for me...and we all know who Aslan is supposed to represent...)

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:50 pm

vrikasatma wrote:Homosexuality IS NOT a question of choice.

It has been scientifically <b>proven</b> to be an inborn tendency. It has been found in every animate, chordate life form we've observed. It is a natural and very gentle form of population control. The animal kingdom figured out millions of years ago that if they had a hardwired means of preventing conception, then their populations were less likely to starve to death or get hammered by rampant disease.

Homosexuality is a survival strategy.

Can you post a link to some kind of scientific article that discusses this? I have long *suspected* that this (overpopulation) was a cause of homosexuality, but I've never heard anyone else mention this.

In regards to whether homosexuality is a choice or an inborn trait:

My brother is gay, and we once had a very long talk about homosexuality. He pretty much assured me that, if he had any choice in the matter, he would not have been gay. Certainly, he doesn't speak for all gays, but the general impression that I get from the gay community is that it isn't something you can choose...perhaps some of them choose it, but I'm pretty confident most of them don't. This doesn't necessarily mean that it's genetic, it could be something that is a result of environment. Either way, I don't think it's something you choose.

In regards to prevention of homosexuality:

As I see it, whether one is born homosexual or heterosexual doesn't really make a difference as to who you are. If I was a lesbian, I would still probably be (more or less) the same kind of person I am now. So, as I see it, causing someone to be born straight rather than gay isn't compromising them as a person...and it would certainly make things a heckuva lot simpler (in the good kind of way, not the boring, dull, conformity-solely-for-the-sake-of-conformity kind of way).

That being said, I view homosexuality (though not necessarily homosexuals) as a mistake, a disease, an error, something that should be corrected. I don't see it as something as simple as being black or white. I see it as being more like a cancer, as compared to good health. But of course, this opens up a whole new can of worms...that I'd rather not debate about. We all have different views as to whether homosexuality is a good thing or a bad thing, or something that is neither good or bad. So, I'd rather not debate the morality of lack thereof of homosexuality. The only reason I've chosen to mention my view that it is a bad thing, is to make it clear why I think it should be prevented.

Anyway, back the question at hand...if gays can have totally free speech, then as I see it, Christians should be entitled to total free speech as well. Though really, I think it would be a lot better if everyone would simply respect other people's ears. Gays should realize that the majority of people don't want to have to walk through a gay rally to get to class, and Christians should realize that gays don't want to be told they're going to hell...if everyone was a little bit more respectful of what others do and do not want to hear, I think we'd all be a lot better off.

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