Does the moon REALLY have somthing to do with it??

geekboy1500 · Post by **geekboy1500** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:25 pm

just wondering what you think does the moon have any effect on a werewolf

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:47 pm

I think this was discussed already.

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:07 pm

Well, it doesn't matter fig. He didn't know and its a pain in the butt to have to find it in so many pages full of different topics.
This will continue to happen, new people will join and post topics that have already been discussed and its ok. The original topic for this is probably so old, that no one will post on it anymore, so then where is he going to get the answers he wants.
Its ok if its already been discussed.

I hope I didn't offend you by typing this. You've been on this forum for sometime so, it probably does get aggravating to see the same topics over and over again.

geekboy1500 · Post by **geekboy1500** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:33 pm

im sorry i couldnt find it on the forum topics

sorry for wasting your time

Voidmaw · Post by **Voidmaw** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:55 pm

Excerpt from article "Fooled by the Full Moon" in Discover Magazine, dated Sept. 2003

"A study of 4,190 suicides over 58 years in Sacramento County, California, uncovered no ties with the moon, full or otherwise. Several studies likewise revealed no link between lunar phases and psychiatric-hospital admissions, while one claiming to reveal such a connection showed that mental crises seem to be lowest during a full moon (?).
Crime is also commonly linked to the phases of the moon. Arnold Lieber, a psychologist at University of Miami, analyzed 14 years of homicides in Dade County, Florida, and reported evidence of a lunar pattern. The claim, published in 1972 and updated by Lieber in a popular book, is widely cited on the Internet. Subsequent analysis of the Dade County data, including one by the late astronomer George Abell of the University of California at Los Angeles, failed to support Lieber's conclusions. Crime rates increased during hot weather and on weekends, but they had no association with the moon.

Many physicians still agree with the folk wisdom that human births march to a lunar drumbeat. A 1959 study of 500,000 births in New York City, carried out by father-and-son doctors Walter and Abraham Menaker, seemed to show a 1 percent increase in births around the full moon. Once again, follow-up research could not duplicate the finding. Kelly, in collaboration with Belgian chemist Ronnie Martens and psychologist Donald H. Saklofske of the University of Saskatchewan, evaluated 21 moon/birth studies. More recently, astronomer Daniel Carton of Appalachian State University sorted through 70 million birth records from the National Center for Health Statistics. Both studies reached the same conclusion: No connection exists." - Bob Berman

Often sited is the fact of tides, and our own water-based existence. In my mind, this is comparing a rugged sea to a still glass of water. On another note, the gravitational pull of a full moon is no different when the phase is new. The only difference would be in the amount of light reflected, so why wouldn't there be a connection to the new moon in this scenario?

This is not to say that there aren't exceptionally sensitive individuals. Another interesting line of thought could be tracked through our own systems chemistry lab. Hormones such as melatonin that are released from the pineal gland when light is supressed. More light? Less melatonin. Are there other processes that are effected by light? What are their effects? If the light of a full moon plays a role in our behaviour, would it be weakening in these modern times of artificial luminance? Was it more of a rush in our primal days? What other bodily systems could play a role?

Around here, I often note people blaming the full moon when the phase is actually in gibbous, waxing or waning.

If you don't already, and would like to keep in tune with lunar phases - try Lunabar (updated link): http://infra-azure.org/lunabar/downloads.html It's a program that allows one to accurately chart lunar phases based on latitude and longitude, and roosts neatly in the taskmanager.

Obviously, even by light alone, the moon has some physical effect on us (melatonin production. etc?). I suppose my vote would be along both physical and spiritual lines.

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:00 pm

Hey, you didn't waste our time.
Its ok.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:14 pm

Voidmaw wrote:If you don't already, and would like to keep in tune with lunar phases - try Lunabar: http://clysmic.com/lunabar/try.html It's a program that allows one to accurately chart lunar phases based on latitude and longitude, and roosts neatly in the taskmanager.

The task manager?

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:39 pm

I have never seen that before.
I can see that some on you got your avatars from that website.

Voidmaw · Post by **Voidmaw** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:31 pm

Sorry, Lupin, and thanks for catching that.

I meant system tray. I sometimes stick magpies where buttons should be.

Edit , so as not to clutter and derail further: The system tray would accompany the taskbar on Windows machines. This is generally located at the bottom of your screen. The updated link to Lunabar - http://infra-azure.org/lunabar/downloads.html

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:37 pm

System tray?

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:13 am

The whole idea of the moon affecting change, to me, has always been s***, but on the bright side i wouldn't have some ideas tweaking it if it didn't exist at all.

Voidmaw · Post by **Voidmaw** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:55 am

As a link to physical transformation, I'd have to agree.

If someone wanted to use it in a plot, however, the lunar orbit spiralling further out into space as time moves forward could be another idea to flush out. This is of course a very slow process in terms of human and wolf lifespans, so I don't know if it would work. Maybe tales of mythical before times when the moon did hold a connection as an original catalyst for change. There are plenty of consensus world indigenous cultural tales that you could weave into this.

Not a theme I would personally look to, but ideas are fun to poke at with sticks and bones.

Syzygy · Post by **Syzygy** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:15 pm

Anook wrote:System tray?

The system tray is in the bottom right hand corner of your desktop, next to the clock.

I can't see the moon having any physical affect at all, but it could have a mental affect on the werewolf if they really believed in it.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:48 pm

Anook wrote:Well, it doesn't matter fig. He didn't know and its a pain in the butt to have to find it in so many pages full of different topics.
This will continue to happen, new people will join and post topics that have already been discussed and its ok. The original topic for this is probably so old, that no one will post on it anymore, so then where is he going to get the answers he wants.
Its ok if its already been discussed.

I hope I didn't offend you by typing this. You've been on this forum for sometime so, it probably does get aggravating to see the same topics over and over again.

Fig is right, Anook. It's forum etiquette to check and see if a thread about the topic you're about to post has already been posted. If indeed a topic like this has already been made, then this should be merged into the other thread.

If we didn't merge repeat topics or manage them in some other way, over time we'd have dozens of threads all addressing the same issue.

No offense meant to either you or geekboy.

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:42 am

Oh, ok I understand

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:03 am

Both. But then with good grammar.

Kaebora · Post by **Kaebora** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:44 pm

Seeing as how the gravity of the moon already affects the behavior of animals on this planet, I think the effects the moon have on a werewolf transformation are entirely physical. I have my doubts that it has anything to do with the moon though.

There is a tiny bit of magnetic material in every human brain. Some people have enough of it to become sensitive to EMF (electro magnetic feilds), and gravitational forces. Perhaps a werewolf may have a larger concentration of these magnetic materials in the brain. This could give the human the ability of hightened senses towards earthquakes, electronic devices/ power grids, solar flares, and the position of the moon.

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:16 pm

AHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING!!
HELLP ME FIX MY PICTURE

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:55 pm

Kaebora wrote: Some people have enough of it to become sensitive to EMF (electro magnetic feilds), and gravitational forces. Perhaps a werewolf may have a larger concentration of these magnetic materials in the brain. This could give the human the ability of hightened senses towards earthquakes, electronic devices/ power grids, solar flares, and the position of the moon.

Heh... imagine a werewolf near one of those hydroelectric generators at Hoover dam.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:14 pm

Figarou wrote:Heh... imagine a werewolf near one of those hydroelectric generators at Hoover dam.

Those are cool.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:37 pm

If it weren't for the American flag, I'd think that were a set for Dr. Who. Shouldn't a few Daleks be down there, scooting about? "Launch-the-in-vas-ion-in-ten-min-utes!"

Pariah's Boyfriend · Post by **Pariah's Boyfriend** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:01 pm

This is actually something Pariah Poet and I discussed on the way back from Akon. Here's my theory as to if the moon can cause a physical change.

For starters, the gravitational pull shouldn't make much of a difference if the moon if full or not. Just because the moon is not full does not mean that it is not still there. I'm sure you all know that moon is simply full because the earth is not between it and the sun, which means the sun's rays reflect off the entire front surface of the moon giving it the full round appearance. So if gravity was a catalyst, you would be able to change almost any night.

This does mean that with more of the sun's rays reflecting off of the moon, that it is much more likely that the light waves are in some way altered when they are reflected off of the moon, and when it's full they are at such high strength that these rays could be a catalyst for a physical change.

How is this even remotely possible?

Here's a small theory I concocted:

Let's say you are bitten by a werewolf, and all you know is you have a nasty bite mark. Let's say for instance that what you didn't realize was that the bite was a means for transference. You have now been infected with... let's just call it "The Werewolf Virus". Now, I'm sure many of you know that one thing that viruses can do is alter DNA. What if that was a capability of this virus, only it did things a little differently. Let's say this virus carries it's own strand of DNA that actually attaches itself to your own DNA. The end result is that you have a DNA strand that is like a Y. One branch of the Y is your own normal DNA, while the other is the wolf DNA. This theory could explain why you aren't automatically a werewolf whenever you are bitten, but instead it takes time before you are fully altered.

So, How does the physical change occur? Well, you have this new Y Strand of DNA, but imagine that it is like a set of a branching railroad tracks. A simple flip of a switch can force the train to go one way or the other. So simply put, whenever a catalyst is introduced into the equation, it simply acts as the switch which activates the wolf part of your DNA.

This catalyst can be strong light waves being reflected from the moon, it can be triggered by life or death situations (your new "Fight or Flight" response"), or whatever.

**This is simply a fun theory, and there has been NO research to backup ANY of it. It's just merely a fun "What If" scenario. If you think it's possible, then cool. If you strongly disagree, that's cool too. The only thing I ask is that you give your own theory or opinion as why this is not possible. I respect everyone's thoughts and opinions, but I don't take kindly to criticism without an explanation**

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:19 pm

In this one tv show I saw it wasn't a werewolf but another type of werecreature and they mention that the moons gravity triggered the shift which I thought was quite interesting..I'll see if i can find some more info on that

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:16 pm

Attempts at explaining the full moon by gravity models tend to run into science problems. Yes, the moon's gravity affects tides, and yes, we're 80% water, but, it doesn't work that way. The moon is always there, pulling, regardless of whether or not it's full. If you factor in the full moon paired with the sun, then new moons should also trigger a shift.

Light from the full moon also poses a problem, unless you're OK with being able to avoid the forced shift just by stepping indoors.

Science problems ultimately made me drop forced full moon shifts from my storylines about ten years ago. I have yet to find a non-magic model with which I'm happy, other than psychological expectation or leaving it intentionally unexplained.

Still, I welcome someone else coming up with one. Not that I'd rewrite again my own works, but it would be nice to see a way.

As for the "Y" DNA, good idea, though technically slightly glitchy. The core premise can work, but you don't have to stick branches on DNA to pull it off. With my own werewolves, I just add the extra information as additional chromosomes.

Human DNA consists of 46 chromosomes worth of information. Each chromosome is a straind of DNA double helix measuring tens of thousands of base pairs in length in a long and continuous chain, clustered with numerous proteins associated with keeping it organized, and activating or deactivating portions to be copied into RNA messages that carry out metabolism. Hacking and editing DNA is very complicated, and designing a virus that knows the right place to apply every patch would be almost as much work as designing things like shapeshifting. If you've already got your work cut out for you biologically, it's best to do it in the cheapest and easiest way possible.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:22 pm

The problem with the gravity explination is that if it were to work like that, werewolves would end up shifting every 12 hours and 24 minutes instead of every 27 days.

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