Werewolf looks

[RedEye]

A Sad Fact (I know, what has all this to do with facts?) but do y'all realise that the Lon Chaney Werewolf (Ol' Brillo-Face) can be cleaned up rather well, and actually IS within the realm of Possibility as a form for a Werewolf? A Real Werewolf, that is.

I know...I've just messed up everyone's fantasy Were'.

So, throw the Duckies...

[Apokryltaros]

Yes, we're aware of the "werewolf syndrome" of Hypertrichosis.
I'm not terribly fond of the Lon Chaney look, if only because A) I don't find it aesthetically pleasing, and B) I find that people who use that look have a very limited imagination.

[Morkulv]

Oh, also, Morkulv needs to deffinantly take a huge chill pill. If a human and a wolf were combined and it looked like an ape-bear.... well.... I guess that would make it more discribed as a wereBEAR. The massive majority of pictures of werewolves of oldentimes have been pretty plainly as furred men with wolf heads. Besides, you cannot genetically mix human and wolf DNA yet or maybe never will.
Everything here is best discribed as hypothetical, a theorized world, 'What if' is the basis... SO STOP BEING SO PIG HEADED BY THROWING IN YOUR 'THAT COULDN'T WORK', EVERYTHING IS 'WHAT IF' WITH A LITTLE BIT OF SCIENCE, AS MUCH AS CAN BE PLACED IN BEFORE VERIFYING IT IMPOSSIBLE. Welcome to the Improbable, the Twighlight Zone if you will. A place where wolf and man are brothers rather then enimies, an either physical or mental bond however it percieved as long as it is percieved. Though you do bring up good debates it becomes idiotic prattle once you refuse to leave room for a possibility that is far from your perspective of the werewolf!
Here, have an Enima!

First: Please, go back to school and learn some grammar for christ's sake. You obviously don't write as good as you draw.

And furthermore you didn't gave any reason why a combination of human and wolf-genes would end up looking like a furred person with a wolf-head. So go read my post again, and please don't give a reply untill you can answer that, because you're not making a point at all, other then that you like anthro-wolves.

[Morkulv]

Here, have an Enema!

The ancient Mayan nobility used enemas as a form of relaxation and recreation, in that, it was finally realized that these rattle-like "wands" depicted in painted vases (being held by the servants of noblepeople) were actually "injectors" for sacred hallucinogenic suppositories.

Bravo Bravo I am glad to find that some people still have a imagination.

I agree: It seems quite selfish, if not downright discouraging to be told that something (in this case, the appearance of werewolves) shouldn't, couldn't won't, can't look right simply because only one person's peculiar sense of aesthetics won't allow it.

I didn't say anything like that. You can think and imagine whatever you like (and I accept that), but I think that people should understand (especially people like you, who claim to stand behind science for 100%), that sertain aspects are not possible. I'm not saying that it is possible to blend genes from different species, but if they could, they just wouldn't look like that. Thats a fact. It would leave too many questions when a head is 100% transformed, and the rest for, should we say, 30%, including digitigrade feet. But like I said 50 times before, my view of a werewolf should be as realistic as possible.

Furthermore, I find it quite funny to see this post coming from you, who always stated that science is the answer to everything.

[Fang]

The Lon Chaney Werewolf was done in a time without the same costume technology. Don't forget that, it was the best they had.

[Morkulv]

Picture?

[Night Rain]

And furthermore you didn't gave any reason why a combination of human and wolf-genes would end up looking like a furred person with a wolf-head. So go read my post again, and please don't give a reply untill you can answer that, because you're not making a point at all, other then that you like anthro-wolves.

And you explained why "combining" them would end up with your version? This should be interesting. Tell us how you combined the DNA, what happened and why.

Personally, I don't think just throwing two kinds of DNA together would do anything, but maybe that's just me.

[Apokryltaros]

Furthermore, I find it quite funny to see this post coming from you, who always stated that science is the answer to everything.

We're dealing with werewolves, legendary creatures that fall outside the realms of Science.

Can you explain to me exactly how combining human and wolf features would create an "ape-bear," rather than a man-wolf?

And last I remember, you said you distrust science and scientists because scientists don't have evidence to prove that werewolves actually exist.

[In Wolf's Clothing]

Hey guys. I'm new here. Found this while trying to research what were-fans want in a costume/movie (and subsequently found out about "Freeborn" ... cool!) I just have to say one thing that I think is funny ...

First: Please, go back to school and learn some grammar for christ's sake. You obviously don't write as good as you draw.

And furthermore you didn't gave any reason why a combination of human and wolf-genes would end up looking like a furred person with a wolf-head. So go read my post again, and please don't give a reply untill you can answer that, because you're not making a point at all, other then that you like anthro-wolves.

Hmm ... does anybody see a few points of irony in this statement? I'll give you a hint: one of them rhymes with "You obviously don't write as good as you draw." Among others ...

I'm excited about the Pack! REAL posts to come ...[/quote]

[Morkulv]

And furthermore you didn't gave any reason why a combination of human and wolf-genes would end up looking like a furred person with a wolf-head. So go read my post again, and please don't give a reply untill you can answer that, because you're not making a point at all, other then that you like anthro-wolves.

And you explained why "combining" them would end up with your version? This should be interesting. Tell us how you combined the DNA, what happened and why.

Personally, I don't think just throwing two kinds of DNA together would do anything, but maybe that's just me.

Furthermore, I find it quite funny to see this post coming from you, who always stated that science is the answer to everything.

We're dealing with werewolves, legendary creatures that fall outside the realms of Science.

Can you explain to me exactly how combining human and wolf features would create an "ape-bear," rather than a man-wolf?

And last I remember, you said you distrust science and scientists because scientists don't have evidence to prove that werewolves actually exist.

You answerred eachother's questions.

And from what I know, this discussion is meant for IF werewolves excist, so it doensn't fall outside the "realms (?)" of science.

If you believe everything related to the possibility of werewolves is just pure crap, then why bother posting here? You don't make any sence at all.

And furthermore you remembered wrong. I don't distrust science because they don't have the proof that werewolves actually exist, but I detrust science because science produces theory's (or so called 'possibillity's'), not facts.

[Apokryltaros]

For one thing, scientific theories describe scientific facts: people who insist on saying that theories aren't facts couldn't tell a scientific theory from a scientific fact, from a scientific hypothesis if their miserable little lives depended on it.

Another thing, this thread is about how a werewolf would/should look, not whether or not a werewolf could exist.

And last I checked, you never explained how combining human and wolf features create an "ape-bear," rather than a "man-wolf," nor did you explain why werewolves shouldn't look wolf-like, aside from your rant about how awful it is for people to like furry-looking werewolves, rather than ugly creatures that kill just because.

I mean, I know it will break your heart do so, but, can you explain why, in detail, you insist that werewolves should look like rabid psychopaths, rather than wolf-like monsters without insulting everyone who disagrees with you?

[Night Rain]

You answerred eachother's questions.

Helps you get away from doing it, doesn't it? So I guess I won't be expecting any of the evidence you hypocritically ask of other people.

If you believe everything related to the possibility of werewolves is just pure crap, then why bother posting here? You don't make any sence at all.

I hope you don't watch these movies assuming them to be real.

And furthermore you remembered wrong. I don't distrust science because they don't have the proof that werewolves actually exist, but I detrust science because science produces theory's (or so called 'possibillity's'), not facts.

And you produce what? Divine knowledge of what a werewolf should and should not be?

[Shadow Wulf]

This is really a pointless arguement you two are having and it will lead you to nowhere. Everyone knows that theres not enough proof for werewolf to exist besides some sightings which still isnt enough.



Also altough I like scientists but alot of them just really want people to be a nervous wreck instead of living out their life with few worries. Honestly, what doesnt give you cancer these days? but thats just my 2 cents.

[Vuldari]

If one were to find a way to compensate for the genetic incompatabilities between wolves and humans, the creature that would result from forming an embryo from naturally fused human and wolf genes would almost surely still be a stunted, malformed, and sickly creature that would not have the capacity to live, eat and move under it's own power, assuming it even survived birth.

...obviously...this Scientifically Likely interpretation is not one we want to use...


If one were to re-write the genetic coding of a humans body to be 50% wolf (by random-natural blending) after the body has allready fully matured as a human, then any physical changes would have to occur as extensions of the existing physical body...which likely would not allow much more than a "WolfMan"/"TeenWolf" looking person...which again would likely end up encountering mis-matched, malfunctioning biological proccesses which would leave the person/creature bedridden untill they die of natural causes, due to physical defects.

...also not a desireable option...


Therefore...I think it would be assumed that the way the Wolf blends with the Human side would not be so evenly distributed and naturally mixed as it normally would occur in nature.



For the combo to end in a compatable mix, it would need to be very selective on what features would be changed and what would not...

...and if the end result is going to be something physically impressive, then clearly the most distinctive changes would need to be exagerated in order for the 'enhancements' to be significant enough to be noticed, and matter.


If the creature is mainly going to move about in "Gestalt" configuration, then the creatures torso, limbs and general build would need to be mostly humanoid for bipedal locomotion to be the most fluid and efficient.

On the other hand...human hands and feet are not built to withstand the stresses of slashing and clawing, so they would need to be made sturdier like a wolves paws for the claws to be of any real use.

Likewise, the size and shape of a Wolves nasal cavity within it's muzzle, which allows for a great deal more air to be held withthin the scent-sensitive aria while sniffing, has alot to do with thier greater sense of smell, besides just the difference in the qualities and density of the nerves there. ...and the shape of a wolves ears is not just for show either...not to mention that a human jaw simply isn't built to output, support and withstand the same kind of biting power as that of a Real Carnivore.

Given that the transformation is quite likely to be a defense mechanism against hostile forces, the natural offensive features of a wolf would be far more useful to a werwolf in that form than the more balanced, speach friendly, omnivorous jawshape of a human. ...as would sturdier, battle ready appendages.


Therefore, by the logic of this scenario...the most efficient blend of a bi-pedal werewolf would leave it with a torso and main body that remains mostly human-like, with its extremeties (Head, hands, Feet) inversely favoring the wolf instead, as the most effective offensive, defensive tools available from the combined human/wolf gene-pool.


Natural evolution tends to cause the features in a creature that are the most crucial and significant to thier survival to becoming bigger, stronger and more potent.



I'm not saying that you are wrong in thinking that a more natural, equal blend would look very different from what most Werewolf fans favor...

...I'm just helping to point out that there are actually some real good reasons why such a creature might come to be re-balanced in such a fashion, possibly due to natural evolution, or just strategicly selective distribution...

...Which could give it a Human body, and a Wolfish Head and Paws...
Potentially.


[Edit:](Whoah...I did it again. When I have something to say, I can really get exessively verbose sometimes...)

[Shadow Wulf]

Tell me about it.

You know, you really need to control what your saying cause you write alot more than necessary, too many examples and repeating the same thing is a couple of your problems.

[Apokryltaros]

Tell me about it.

You know, you really need to control what your saying cause you write alot more than necessary, too many examples and repeating the same thing is a couple of your problems.

I can translate, as I've taken classes in both Embryology and Vuldarian.

TRANSLATION:
It is possible to fuse together a human egg with a wolf egg, in order to create an embryonic chimera. However, such interspecies chimeras never survive beyond the morula stage (solid ball of cells).

It is also possible to splice in wolf genes into a human egg/embryo, however, and have it survive gestation and birth. Then again, human anatomy wasn't (originally) meant to withstand the wear, tear and trauma of wolf anatomy.

[Shadow Wulf]

Well I can usually understand what hes trying to say but he just doesnt organize what hes saying, he just list countless examples and repeating the same statement in another form and it gets kind of repetitive. I dont mean to be mean Vuldari...your still my friend.

[Vuldari]

Well I can usually understand what hes trying to say but he just doesnt organize what hes saying, he just list countless examples and repeating the same statement in another form and it gets kind of repetitive. I dont mean to be mean Vuldari...your still my friend.

That's funny...I thought I had assembled that in a very organised , "If...Then..." format which would be easy to understand.

Apokryltaros understood me anyway...



Here is a, paraphrased version.

Human-DNA + Wolf-DNA = Nothing (Creatrue doesn't survive birth)


Adult-Human + Infused-Wolf-Genes = Sick, hairy human, likely not long to live.


:Conclusion:
-Realistic interpretation of the result of fusing Man with Wolf not applicable to creature "Werewolf". No desirable results occur.

*Alternative Suggestion*
-Rather than blend all features evenly and naturally (which would likely result in life threatening internal malfunctions), distribute balance of Human and Wolf features Strategicly, for maximum compatability and potency of combined Homo-Sapien and Canis-Lupus strengths.

{Observation}
-Accounting for the physical conditions neccesary for the natural strengths of a Wolf (those of which are greater than a humans) and a Human (those of which are greater than a wolf) to be of thier highest capacity, there may be good reason for some Wolf features to be considerably more developed on a werewolf form, (such as the Muzzle/Jaw/Nose, Ears and Paws), and some Human features to remain distinctly prominent, (such as the Cranium, Torso, and Limb-Structure above the Wrists and Ankles).

The result being an Upright walking, Human bodied, Wolfish headed, Pawed and Clawed Creature...much like the creature as it is allready commonly represented in Popular art, and traditional folklore.

[Closeing Statement]
-It is my conclusion that it is reasonable and understandable how and why the transformed state of a Werewolf might have certain parts more developed and exagerated than others, not only because it is more aesthetically appealing to many werewolf fans, but because there would be distinct advantages, from an evolutionary standpoint, for the body to develop that way.


In Context, under the assumption that the physical transformation out of Purely Human shape into the Beastly Wolf form is for the purposes of enhancing the hosts offensive and defensive capabilities in a hostile situation, the previously-defined distribution of physical qualities would likely be exeptionally potent.

So...now are you even MORE confused Shadow Wulf?

...that's okay...

Even though we are all communicating in English here (Which is harder for some than others), it often feels like we are speaking different languages durring some discussions.

[Shadow Wulf]

I understood what you were saying from the beggining. All Im trying to say is make your statement sweet and to the point.

[Vuldari]

I understood what you were saying from the beggining. All Im trying to say is make your statement sweet and to the point.

Well...

If I had just said;

"Werewolves with evenly blended bodies wouldn't work very well. Naturally blended Wolf and Human combinations would just die.

WolfHead Werewolves would be better. They bite and fight harder."

...the credibility of and reasons for my opinion would have seemed questionable at best.


I prefer to try to explain myself as thouroughly as possible, and attempt to answer most related questions before they are even asked.
(Which, of course, is impossible...but it doesn't stop me from trying.)

[Morkulv]

You answerred eachother's questions.

Helps you get away from doing it, doesn't it? So I guess I won't be expecting any of the evidence you hypocritically ask of other people.

If you believe everything related to the possibility of werewolves is just pure crap, then why bother posting here? You don't make any sence at all.

I hope you don't watch these movies assuming them to be real.

And furthermore you remembered wrong. I don't distrust science because they don't have the proof that werewolves actually exist, but I detrust science because science produces theory's (or so called 'possibillity's'), not facts.

And you produce what? Divine knowledge of what a werewolf should and should not be?

*screams and bonks head several times on desk*

[Fang]

So smart, Vuldari and I think that adding the facts is a good habit.
Morkulv, stop telling us that werewolves can't exist. We know that, everyting here deals with fantasy. We know werewolves aren't real. We can still dream can't we?

[lunarwolf]

It seems like everyone has different opinions (obivisly) so this is never going to end.

[Alteron]

Seems like I've missed quite a bit while I was moving up north. *glances through everything again* Hurrrrrrrrr, seems discussions got interesting on occasion.
Hmmm, I hope this will not offend anyone/everyone, but while I was moving I found myself rather bored with nothing to do when we stopped for the night, so I dragged out my anatomy books a paper and pencil and tried to find some basic skeletal structure that would work for the gestalt mode
...
Yes, when bored I either draw anatomical structures of animals I see around me or come up with anatomical sketches/designs of non-existant creatures. I never said I was NORMAL.

The first thing that I was forced to admit was that in order to be in a bipedal position for any period of time; the rib, pelvis, shoulders and spine had to be almost identical to human design for balance and supporting the internal organs.
To allow for detrigrade legs I altered the pelvis sligthly, adding an arch of bone above the hip joint to allow better distribution of weight while changing the angle of the ball and socket joint to allow the leg, at rest, to be at about 45 degrees from the main, as opposed to the humans 90 degree to the main. The shin tends to be held at a 135 degree angle from the main while the foot tends to be held at about 20 to 30 degrees, and instead of the legs facing directly forward as they do in humans, the feet tend to point out slightly as yo balance on the ball of your foot.
I legthened the spine slgihtly, while keeping it in the supple S of the bipedal design. On a male WW the shoulders would be about average width, though in females the shoulders would appear slightly 'wide' to allow quadripedal motion. To allow for Quad. motion the arms were legthened, the elbow joint dropping from midwaist to level with the bottom of the pelvis. The hands as a result drop from mid thigh to (with the legthened palms) knee height.
Due to the 'long palm' that Silver's Corner mentions the thumb would actually have to remain it's original length, though the other fingers could shorten about 1/3rd their initial length and still allow function. The fingers would have to be 'double-jointed' however, unless you want the WW to either
A: knuckle walk like a gorilla, or
B: sprain/snap it's wrist when it tries to walk/run by using the whole hand flat to the ground.
By Allowing the fingers to flex easily towards the back of the hand, and adding on calloced padding tot he ball of the hand, a WW can stand on it's 'toes' (simular to the Pack emblem of the partially shifted hand) with the opposable thumb held up and out of the way... rather like a very large dewclaw
the primary reason to keep your wrist straight when 'walking' (either wolf-like or knuckle walking) is that the wrist, like the ankle, can not take much weight when it is bent. The tendons strain or tear easily when the wrist is bent, the joints can not allow the stress to the transmitted along the arm, and the joints can pop out of place or even fracture, and shockingly easily, if you try to put even a fourth of your body weight on it bent. With the wrist straight, stress and shocks travel up the whole arm, lessening the effect.

By having the arms legthened as above mentioned, the torso is held level to the ground, relieving much of the stress the body endures. It also allows the hind legs to remain in an almost natural position, although they are far more flexed than in a true wolf.

Here's an experiment I did when we stopped off in Jacksonville on our way North. One of my cousins (Jane) has scoliosis, and has been using forarm crutches since she was five. Now, as her parents... okay, THEY'RE actually my cousins, but... well anyone that isn't a generation above or two below is called COUSIN in our clan. In any case, her parents were worried thattheir son (mike) might also develop scoliosis, so they kept Jane's old forarm cruthes, ones that are ajustable. With Jane's permission, I borrowed those old crutches and used them to simulate my therorised arm length for WWs and it's effects on bipedal locomotion... and to see if quadripedial locomotion was even truly feasible.
Some interesting things I discovered.
A: testing something like this is a good way to entertain younger family members. Apparently it's almsot as good as clowns.
B: Testing how to run with long arms on asphalt hurts. Alot
C: Stairs. Are. EVIL.
D: SAND. IS. WORSE.
E: Apparently even non family members will watch, laugh and (in some cases) even attempt/join in the experiment either cause it looks fun or to prove that their suggestions will work.

Things that I ended up inadvertanly proving
A: Keep the wrist STRAIGHT and if you HAVE to bend one make sure it's the NON-DOMINATE wrist for Pete's sake.
B: Running on your toes in human fashion with long arms (especially on beach sand/soft ground) means that you're likely to either smack yourself in the shins or catch your 'arm' under the knee. And falling on sand hurts more then you'd expect.
C: Stairs are evil
D: It's impossible to run more then three strides in a quadripedal manner. Even if I were to posses the margionally longer spine of a gestalt, it's just too hard to balance with the knees coming up as high as they do on the rib cage
E: There IS a way to run, it just takes experimentation.
To run in 'gestalt' form start out like a sprinter; 'hands' and arms vertical to the main, shoulders and neck slightly hunched, back marginally arched, legs drawn up under the body, flexed and tensed, toes digging into dround slightly for increased traction.
Once you start to run do so by 'pushing off' as a sprinter does. Keep your body canted forward (more then you usually do in a run). Your momentum will give you 3(on soft ground) to 8(on hard, even ground) strides before you start to loose your balance. Once you feel your self starting to loose your balance, lean forward slightly as you begin the next stride and 'catch' yourself on your 'hands'. Draw both legs up so that they land at close the the same point and the same time. This will result in you being, more or less, in the sprinters starting position again. Simply repeat this as you go. You'll be surprised how fast you go.
For going up stairs the only way that really worked was in quad-manner, though without fingers/claws I couldn't get good purchase, but WITH fingers/claws it would actually be easier then trying to lug ones mass up the stairs while keeping the body both vertical AND keeping the legs detrigrade. Down stairs I didn't even attempt but one would assume that quad. would provide better balance.
OH! Thing of important note is that canine ankles are simple hinge joints having only two directions of movement, as opposed to the human pivot joint. All the detrigrades I can think of are the same (hinge joints) This means that they can't turn as tightly as we can, as the only joint that would allow rotation of the leg is the hip joint. It also means that it is a far more durable joint and much less likely to twist or sprain.

Hurrrrrr, also, a point of note about the skull. If you shorten the muzzle by about 1/3rd to 1/4th it's initial length and give the gesalt 'thick' lips with the massive number of muscles controlling them that humans have, you would only have to margionally alter the tounge to allow rough speech.

That's all I can write down now... I have to go get dinner started, get prepped for tomorrow's work day.

*bows* MAy the road rise up to meet you and the wind be always at your back.

-Alteron

[redwolfmoon]

... Wow.... YyAWSOME!!
Here, just thought this picture was nifty and wanted to share it

Sorry it's huge, I tried to size it down, but I'm not good at that kind of stuff. As a note, I think that this werewolf is a bit too fluffy and not enough human.... wow, coming from me that sounds retarded... anyway, I just thought that it earned just a bit of merrit.