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There is no way the heart and muscles can strecth out, if we dont gain muscle mass we would actually become weaker than our former humans self, you be able to break bones easier, your muscles will be so thin and youll get bruised easier. So yeah gaining muscle mass would be necesity.

only if you're going to make the person 2 ft taller than his normal size.

My were is not much bigger than she is in humanoid form. She is deadlier with the claws, has some of the wolf reflex, but is not as swift as she is in wolf form, because the bipedal form is awkward IMHO. . .

mielikkishunt wrote:

Anubis wrote:

mielikkishunt wrote:
thinkig of humans!!! we're talkilg about a completely difernt creature! what could be fat for us could be heathly or under wieght for them

And where the heck is that extra muscle coming from?

I dont think you like the idea of werewolfs having muscles mielikkishunt cause you keep asking where it comes from yet you havent ask about other question. the question you should also ask yourself is wehre does all the extra bone mass come from.

mielikkishunt wrote:

There is no way the heart and muscles can strecth out, if we dont gain muscle mass we would actually become weaker than our former humans self, you be able to break bones easier, your muscles will be so thin and youll get bruised easier. So yeah gaining muscle mass would be necesity.

only if you're going to make the person 2 ft taller than his normal size.

My were is not much bigger than she is in humanoid form. She is deadlier with the claws, has some of the wolf reflex, but is not as swift as she is in wolf form, because the bipedal form is awkward IMHO. . .

Agien ask yourself this, how does the nails grow sharp and thick, and how do the bones stretch out to form the digirated legs and the skull.

Well, it's been voted on, and it appears that they most certainly will grow in height.

I know velkacis, but some people wants to make a big deal about muscles and hight just cause they dont agree with it, yet they dont bother asking where the extra bone mass comes from.

Some of you have asked where does all the extra mass come from and I've heard this question before. I will use the Incredible Hulk as a reference: As we all know the Bruce banner or David Banner is a weakling and pretty pathtic, but When the hulk emerges he grows greatly in mass,size,power and height. No I hear a lot of you say or metion the laws of physics and all that scientific info that I can't quite understand how physics can fit into the equation of Werewolves at all, but back to my subject at hand, If Bruce can grow so much muscle mass why couldn't a WereWolf do the same. Ok I think that in the Hulk's case the mass disergrates or reshapes itself somehow, but I'm not sure as I am not a scientist as in which maybe scientific talk coulsd play a key factor in the Werewolves, but I guess I wouldn't really know as I was terrible in Science class

but then another thing I was thinking of an animal that can gain mass then go back to it's usually state is a blowfish, but I guess I'd better do some web searching on that animal before I go into it or maybe somebody else can help me on this one...

Shadow Wulf wrote:I know velkacis, but some people wants to make a big deal about muscles and hight just cause they dont agree with it, yet they dont bother asking where the extra bone mass comes from.

Magic, of course.
In my opinion, given as how being able to change one's species while one is still alive violates laws of both physics AND biology, it seems silly to continue arguing about how one shouldn't be able to gain or lose mass when one changes to or from species.
As such, I opt for magic as an explaination.

SabreWereWolfQueen_84 wrote: but then another thing I was thinking of an animal that can gain mass then go back to it's usually state is a blowfish, but I guess I'd better do some web searching on that animal before I go into it or maybe somebody else can help me on this one...

Blowfish do not gain mass: They can change their dimensions because they swallow water, or, if they have the misfortune to be held out of the water, air, and thus, force their expandable stomach to stretch out, thus preventing themselves from being swallowed by some predator.

Well....I didn't think about that fact

Why would bones lengthen and muscle grow larger?


Well, I don't have an answer to this question, but rather more questions. If a human's jaw is going to grow larger and reshape into a wolf's muzzle, or if a tail is going to grow where there was not tail before (this will involve the lengthening of bones, or maybe the growing of new vertebrae), then how is that terribly different from a werewolf's leg muscles lengthening, allowing him or her to grow in height? Also, the muscles in the face, and the muscles in the tail, and the muscles in the feet are going to have to change shape and grow to accomodate the new body. How is that much different from a werewolf gaining muscle mass? We're not giving the werewolf a new body part that wasn't there before, we're just expanding the size of a part that was already there, which is what must also happen with the growing of the tail, muzzle, feet, and ears. Also, if fur can somehow materialize, why couldn't additional muscle?

I'm not saying that werewolves necessarily should grow in height and musculature, I'm saying that they could. If all of the other processes that allow a werewolf to transform can occur, so could growing taller and muscles growing. It isn't really much more unbelievable.

Shadow Wulf wrote:

mielikkishunt wrote:

Anubis wrote:

mielikkishunt wrote:
thinkig of humans!!! we're talkilg about a completely difernt creature! what could be fat for us could be heathly or under wieght for them

And where the heck is that extra muscle coming from?

I dont think you like the idea of werewolfs having muscles mielikkishunt cause you keep asking where it comes from yet you havent ask about other question. the question you should also ask yourself is wehre does all the extra bone mass come from.

So, care to give an attempt?

I'm sorry, but a were pulling two-three hundred lbs out of their butt just is unrealistic,(well, even more unrealistic than being a were anyway)

But, as has been discussed her on this board, mass has got to come from somewhere. And if you want to make your weres weigh 300 lbs, t hey 're not going to be fast. I prefer my weres to have the same body mass as they had as a humanoid. But then, I also like my weres to be graceful, and lithe, and I just don't see something with the body mass of an NFL football player as any of the above.

I also don't understand the need to jack the height of the creature up 2 ft. Size doesn't matter.. One of the nastiest creatures to deal with is a badger, and they don't get very big, but they sure can doa deal on ya or a dog.

Oh, BTW, just cuz it was 'voted' on at any one time, doesn't mean the tone/views of a board or person can't change.

Excelsia wrote:Why would bones lengthen and muscle grow larger?


Well, I don't have an answer to this question, but rather more questions. If a human's jaw is going to grow larger and reshape into a wolf's muzzle, or if a tail is going to grow where there was not tail before (this will involve the lengthening of bones, or maybe the growing of new vertebrae), then how is that terribly different from a werewolf's leg muscles lengthening, allowing him or her to grow in height? Also, the muscles in the face, and the muscles in the tail, and the muscles in the feet are going to have to change shape and grow to accomodate the new body. How is that much different from a werewolf gaining muscle mass? We're not giving the werewolf a new body part that wasn't there before, we're just expanding the size of a part that was already there, which is what must also happen with the growing of the tail, muzzle, feet, and ears. Also, if fur can somehow materialize, why couldn't additional muscle?

I'm not saying that werewolves necessarily should grow in height and musculature, I'm saying that they could. If all of the other processes that allow a werewolf to transform can occur, so could growing taller and muscles growing. It isn't really much more unbelievable.

When all of those are answered, I'd like to see what happens in reverse. The tail comes from someplace, correct? Mass has to be gained. Then where does it go when it reverts back? Where does all that mass go when reverting from gestalt to human?

Try and explain that.


Yes, I know....magic.


You know, I'm suprised you guys are bringing back stuff that was discussed in other threads.

Maybe it's like Animorphs You know, when you become a werewolf a blob of You is set up in reserve in some alternate time-space dimension, and when you transform it's sucked out of that space for use, and when you deshift or whatever, a blob of Youmass returns to that other nothingness

NarnianWolfen wrote:Maybe it's like Animorphs You know, when you become a werewolf a blob of You is set up in reserve in some alternate time-space dimension, and when you transform it's sucked out of that space for use, and when you deshift or whatever, a blob of Youmass returns to that other nothingness

Do you realize how odd that sounds?

A werewolf should be strong anyway, because he has to be able to walk on 4 legs. Thats why humans have to train a lot to walk on all fours. So if you'r able to run on all fours, you can certanly punch someone to the ground.

If anything, realistic werewolves would shrink in height, not grow taller. I always hated the 7 foot tall weres. There's just no way someone who's 5'7" and skinny is gonna grow to the height of an NBA player and have the muscles of an NFL quarterback.

A werewolf should be strong anyway, because he has to be able to walk on 4 legs. Thats why humans have to train a lot to walk on all fours.

Puppies have to "train" themselves to walk also. They're not running around as soon as they're out of mama's womb. It takes them months before they can walk.

So if you'r able to run on all fours, you can certanly punch someone to the ground.

When's the last time you got a beat down from a dog?

Humans are bipedal. running on all fours isn't in the design, and therefore should be harder. I would elaborate or make a longer post, but I've go to get back to class really quick

I don't see the problem with a bipedal or quadrapedal (think thats the posh word for "all 4's ) werewolf, It would depend on how animal-like your vision of one is.

You don't have to get bigger to get taller. Just shifting stance can do that. A werewolf can look larger just by sprouting fur.

Again, if you have to gain mass to get the form you want, then the DNA debate is trivial, as we're now squarely in the realm of astral phase, transdimensional physiology, or other weird phenomena that render pretty trivial things like where do the teeth go or how does the brain survive. If you pull your wolf form out of a fourth spatial dimension, your shapeshifting no longer has to hurt--it could tickle or feel rosy. You could disappear and have the wolf pop into place moments later. You could teleport, or even walk on walls. (I finally figured out Cursed and Underworld.)

Transdimensional pysiology? I'm not an uneducated person by any means, I'm actually studying to become a physician and I just love to expand my vocabulary. But how exactly would that work?

Having given this discussion more thought, I've been wondering something to myself. Why the hell did I get into this debate anyway? This is freakin' hollywood. Realism should by no means be thrown out the window, but I think the boundaries of reality can be stretched in the making of a movie.

I am not one of those types who is ok with movies that completely and totally ignore proper science. But, as long as they give it a reasonable nod, that's ok with me. I'm not gonna sit in the theater and debate with my neighbor about the ramifications of quantum physics, and how what is taking place on screen is impossible. Bleh. I've never been that type of person.

I'd rather watch a movie where the creatures look cool, rather than realistic, in which aesthetics is in the front seat. The majority of America seems to feel this way as well.

I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I'd like to mention it here as well. Movies are a form of escapism. Getting away from reality. If the werewolves are confined completely to the laws of nature, that would be boring. A handful of people would absolutely adore it, but I think most movie audiences (at least the type of people who go and see werewolf movies) would write it off.

Of course, I have no idea what the future holds. It is possible that the Freeborn werewolves could potentially conform to natural standards, and the audience will love it. I highly doubt it, however. I suppose we shall have to wait and see what TA and AB have in store for us.

Anyway, I'm not seeking a response to this post. I just felt as though I should say this. If you feel compelled to argue with me, that is your right. However, it would do little good, since neither of us will be wrong.

I think that throwing the limits of known physics and science out the window for the purposes of a good story is okay, IF the the world they take place in matches.

In other words...if you made a movie where the world appears to be completely normal, and exactly as it should be, but then throw in a character or object that seems to not conform to the same laws as everything else, then something just feels really wrong. It simply doesn't work.

However...if you show signs that these alternate laws of physics, science and nature exist everwhere in that world, for eveyone and everything, then it works out just fine.

Example: In the recent "Fantastic Four" movie, before anyone recieved super powers, you allready saw a world where a single man could own his own, personal Space Station, and equip it with as many SCI-FI gadgets as he wanted, plus, Scientists could have PHDs in Imaginary branches of Theoretical science, where they build machines that do not, nor could not ever exist. With this fantasy world set up...it felt completely natural to see that being exposed to cosmic radiation would give them super-powers.

So...if you have a werewolf movie where thier shifting abilities defy the known laws of physics and biological science, then the story and characters will be much easier to accept if you slip some indications into the background of the story that the rules of this world are a little different than reality.

(Like Headlines in the newspaper about progress in the militarys new genetically enhanced super soldier program, or references to recent scientific studies that suggest that telepathic communication is really possible, or even someone mentioning that they were cured of a dibilitating genetic disease by a BS gene therapy procedure that current science is at least a century away from even Imitating.)

An element within a world (be that a person, a thing, or whatever), MUST confrom to the rules of the world in which it inhabits. If you wish for something to Break these rules, the only way to accomplish this would be the change the very "Laws of the Universe" to allow it...and inevitably, those changes must effect everything that exists within that world and not just that one thing, or else it simply would not make sense, and no one would believe it.


...my $0.02
and a Haypenny

But the thing that is out of the norm could be considered a sign that it is not a normal world, it just depends on how you look at it.

IMHO just don't base everything off real facts or else the movie will be pretty lame.... even though it is painfully obvious the movie will not be based off fact.

Akela wrote:But the thing that is out of the norm could be considered a sign that it is not a normal world...

...well, yeah...that would be the point. Doing this would set up the audience to know that the world is NOT normal. Once that fact is realised and registered in their minds, then then they will no longer have any reason to wonder why this thing or that is not conforming to the laws of physics. Let the audience know that drawing physical mass out of thin air and having it dissapear just as mysteriously is perfectly normal in this world.

...perhaps by showing a documentary on TV (in the background) about a Rare breed of Tazmanian rat that can actulally increase it's physical mass when startled or endangered, and shrink again when they run to hide...then have the zoologists marvel at how incredible that ability is.

...Or something like that.

Make it obvioius to the viewers that , "hey...thats how it works in this world. Deal with it." Once that fact is out of the way, then it will be far easier to focus on the story and the characters instead...rather than dwelling upont the Psudo-Science behind it.


...all just a suggestion, of course.

Vuldari wrote:In other words...if you made a movie where the world appears to be completely normal, and exactly as it should be, but then throw in a character or object that seems to not conform to the same laws as everything else, then something just feels really wrong. It simply doesn't work.

I was kinda saying that the thing that makes the world seem "Unreal" is actually the sign that it is a Sci-Fi, so in other words, what you were saying.
I am not particularly interested in why it happens, saying "it just does" is good enough for me in a movie. You have some good points, keep at 'em.

Reilune wrote:If anything, realistic werewolves would shrink in height, not grow taller. I always hated the 7 foot tall weres. There's just no way someone who's 5'7" and skinny is gonna grow to the height of an NBA player and have the muscles of an NFL quarterback.

Bingo. . and a 150-200 lb wolf is scary a** enough. . .A wolf has plenty enough strength, no need to make them Uber Wolf.