THE PACK Message Boards

Reilune wrote:If anything, realistic werewolves would shrink in height, not grow taller. I always hated the 7 foot tall weres. There's just no way someone who's 5'7" and skinny is gonna grow to the height of an NBA player and have the muscles of an NFL quarterback.

There is no way to prove that.


It'll be nice if werewolves really existed. Then we will know the truth.

Figarou wrote:

Reilune wrote:If anything, realistic werewolves would shrink in height, not grow taller. I always hated the 7 foot tall weres. There's just no way someone who's 5'7" and skinny is gonna grow to the height of an NBA player and have the muscles of an NFL quarterback.

There is no way to prove that.


It'll be nice if werewolves really existed. Then we will know the truth.

Fig's right, there is no way to prove that. A 5'0' werewolf would be pretty lame. I'd be far more intimidated by one that was a foot or two taller than myself.

Reilune wrote:If anything, realistic werewolves would shrink in height, not grow taller. I always hated the 7 foot tall weres. There's just no way someone who's 5'7" and skinny is gonna grow to the height of an NBA player and have the muscles of an NFL quarterback.

A werewolf should be strong anyway, because he has to be able to walk on 4 legs. Thats why humans have to train a lot to walk on all fours.

Puppies have to "train" themselves to walk also. They're not running around as soon as they're out of mama's womb. It takes them months before they can walk.

So if you'r able to run on all fours, you can certanly punch someone to the ground.

When's the last time you got a beat down from a dog?

Lol. What I meant was, that if humans walked on all 4, we were a bit stronger.

Well getting shorter would explain where the mass for the muzzle and tail come from. It's taken out of the rest of you, therefore you shrink.

Why are all of you hatin' on short people? I'm only 5'3", dang it! *looks up at everyone and stomps foot*

Reilune wrote:Well getting shorter would explain where the mass for the muzzle and tail come from. It's taken out of the rest of you, therefore you shrink.

Why are all of you hatin' on short people? I'm only 5'3", dang it! *looks up at everyone and stomps foot*

Gee, I'm only 6 feet tall. Its not like I'm 5 feet taller than you. Only just a few inches taller.

6' and 5'3", while not a big difference number wise, is quite a bit of difference when standing next to one another. People your height are giants to me.

If you have to shrink in order to gain the muzzle and muscle mass, then being a werewolf would be so lame.... do you have any idea how that will turn off so many werewolf fans.

Shadow Wulf wrote:If you have to shrink in order to gain the muzzle and muscle mass, then being a werewolf would be so lame.... do you have any idea how that will turn off so many werewolf fans.

Let's put you in a ring with a pissed off Badger, or a pissed off Rottie/Doberman, and you then can tell us if that's scary enough or not

Size isn't everything, guys. . .it's how you use it

but the point is we dont want to be small, weather we look scary or not. A badger, yes it is scary having that thing snarling at you.....I even got scared when a possom was hissing at me in a shed, but I could have easily hit him with the shovel. If you become smaller then you will be easier to take down.

I'm a pretty scientific person and I still agree that asthetics must sometimes come before science. It's been said before, but as long as it's consistent, it still works. It just has to make sense by the rules and natural laws of it's own world. (I read a lot of fantasy )

mielikkishunt wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:If you have to shrink in order to gain the muzzle and muscle mass, then being a werewolf would be so lame.... do you have any idea how that will turn off so many werewolf fans.

Let's put you in a ring with a pissed off Badger, or a pissed off Rottie/Doberman, and you then can tell us if that's scary enough or not

Size isn't everything, guys. . .it's how you use it

Well, a little badger could be scary. But a really big badger? Personally, I'd find that a helluva lot scarier.



To Vuldari:
Your comments about how if the creatures are going to be unreal then so must their world are logical. However...personally, I've seen plenty movies where one thing was abnormal and everything else was completely normal, and it never bothered me the slightest bit. I guess everyone differs in this area, but I've never found it weird to have something a little bit off-the-wall in a movie. And judging from the box office numbers of past movies, it seems as though many people agree with me. But, nonetheless, your comments are very important. It just so happens that we disagree on this point.

Excelsia wrote:To Vuldari:
Your comments about how if the creatures are going to be unreal then so must their world are logical. However...personally, I've seen plenty movies where one thing was abnormal and everything else was completely normal, and it never bothered me the slightest bit. I guess everyone differs in this area, but I've never found it weird to have something a little bit off-the-wall in a movie. And judging from the box office numbers of past movies, it seems as though many people agree with me. But, nonetheless, your comments are very important. It just so happens that we disagree on this point.

That's just it though...

True as it may be that inconsistancies like this may not bother YOU, or a large portion of the target audience for that matter...they DO bother a fair portion of others, including myself.

It would be like watching a kung-fu movie where only one character flys in the air "Crouching Tiger" style, while everyone else remains glued to the ground, so it's like, "...WTF?!...how the *&^* can he do that?".

When something looks or feels out of place, I can not help but ask questions...and wondering about such things can really take away from a story or film. But I can't just turn my inquisitive mind off...nor can many other moviegoers like myself. Therefore, at least suggesting in some subtle way that an answer to that question (whatever it may be) exists, even if it is never fully explained, can do wonders to pacify an inquisitive mind...at least untill after the film credits roll.



...and I still think the size debate is silly. Well DUH an 8-foot Werewolf would be scarier to run into than a 5-foot one, and a 32-foot wolf beast would be scarier still. ...but a 32-foot werewolf would simply be absurd. There is no reason for them to grow that big. It's still absured to imagine a 13-foot Werewolf, and a 9+ footer would still be Uber-Gigantic compared to a human being (which they are supposedly tranformed from/to). The thing is...I just don't see WHY they would grow bigger at all. ...what would cause that...and if it is of such a great physical advantage, then why do they shrink again afterwards? Why don't they retain their "superior" body mass in human form, if it is so much better to be bigger? (which I don't think it really is.)

...it just doesn't make sense to me...

I agree Vuldari. . .

It just boggles my mind that the same people who have a fit over weres walking on ceilings, want them to sprout an extra 2 ft in height, and pull twice their mass out of their butts.

One of my favorite weres is Kelley Armstrongs weres. .they are wolves, big wolves, but wolves. . slightly stronger than humans, bigger than wolves(Clay is 200lbs, so that's twice the size of a wolf)

And again, if you were in an alley with a 5'9 snarling, rabid looking monster, are you really goign to calmly look at it and go 'whatever?"

mielikkishunt wrote: And again, if you were in an alley with a 5'9 snarling, rabid looking monster, are you really goign to calmly look at it and go 'whatever?"

In my case, yes.

Shadow Wulf wrote:If you become smaller then you will be easier to take down.

That's what alot of people think. And when they get into a fight with someone small (like say...me, this is experience talking here) and I whoop them they're all like "WTF? How did she do that?" It's funny really. If you're small they'll underestimate you and wonder what happened after you tear off their arm and beat them with it. Small creatures are actually quite tough, it's just that nobody gives them enough credit.

I think the point about size is actually a good one. Wolves are *large* canines, and can weigh a lot, true. But generally not as much as a man. (Or so I remember - it's been a long while since I looked it up, so feel free to correct me.) If a werewolf is really a person who transforms into a full wolf, they should not be the size of a horse. Similarly, if they transoform into something that is halfway between a human and a wolf - the traditional and favorite bipedal wolf monster of movie lore - then logically they should shrink a little.

Exactly how much they would shrink would probably require some research into the physiology of real wolves, which I'm not going to do only 30 minutes after I wake up.

In a way, though, the whole conversation is moot. Wolves are smaller and mass less (I think) than a human, but not really by all that much. Unless the film is going to have them stand in a police line-up, or step on a scale and gratuitously show us what he weighs, nobody is going to notice if he shrinks by two or three or even six inches.

I definitely do think they shouldn't grow to seven feet tall, though.

Very true.

Another thing just came to mind on this matter as well, inspired by Xodiac's last post.

If we are talking about werewolves that can transform into both 'Gestalt' and 'Full Wolf' forms...and the "Gestalt" form is a sort of transitional, hybrid phase between the two other forms...then it becomes even MORE odd that they would get bigger in that form.

Imagine a transformation from Human, to Gestalt, then to full Wolf. If the Gestalt form were 7-9 feet tall, and the Wolf were the largest size Natural wolves grow to, the person would first double in volume in the mid-stage before dramatically shrinking again before taking on the full Quadrapedal wolf shape. (Which, Mass and Volume wise, is Smaller than the average human).

...that would look really weird...

Sure its easy to say "the werewolf would shrink a little."


If the werewolf in Freeborn is 100% CGI, that would be easy to do. But how are you going to make someone wearing a werewolf costume look as if he lost some mass compared to his human form?


Lets say they used "real wolves" as the wolf form. How can you explain the incredible loss of mass and size if the wolves they use are small ones?

Reilune wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:If you become smaller then you will be easier to take down.

That's what alot of people think. And when they get into a fight with someone small (like say...me, this is experience talking here) and I whoop them they're all like "WTF? How did she do that?" It's funny really. If you're small they'll underestimate you and wonder what happened after you tear off their arm and beat them with it. Small creatures are actually quite tough, it's just that nobody gives them enough credit.

Yes, it is true that a baboon, mandrill, or even a rhesus macaque can inflict grievous injuries on some careless twit, but, for some reason, I'd prefer to give a wider berth to a gorilla instead, if only because a gorilla's reach is greater...

That being said, I am not going to pay money or devote tv time to watch a movie where a person turns into a 4 foot tall werewolf.

Figarou wrote:Sure its easy to say "the werewolf would shrink a little."


If the werewolf in Freeborn is 100% CGI, that would be easy to do. But how are you going to make someone wearing a werewolf costume look as if he lost some mass compared to his human form?


Lets say they used "real wolves" as the wolf form. How can you explain the incredible loss of mass and size if the wolves they use are small ones?

So...are you suggesting that, instead of using TRUE wolves as the full wolf forms, Giant Bear-Sized Wolves (CGI?-Animatronic?) should be used instead?

One way or another, a decision has to be made.

If you don't want to see them "Shrink" when they change into a Wolf, then either the Gestalt form Can Not be bigger than the Wolf form, or the Wolf form must be as gigantic as the "Uber-Wolf" Gestalt form.

...again...if the Gestalt form is BIGGER than a Human...and the Wolf form is SMALLER than a Human...then transitioning between the three will look very odd.

So...if you don't want any shrinking then either you have to have a Small Gestalt form, or a Large Wolf form.

...either way...if any of the forms are larger than the base, HUMAN form, then they will have to shrink sooner or later when they revert.


I personally think we should avoid the problem alltogether and have all three forms appear to have approximately the same mass and volume...inteligently redistributed into impressive and aestheticly pleasing new shapes.

Apokryltaros wrote:

mielikkishunt wrote: And again, if you were in an alley with a 5'9 snarling, rabid looking monster, are you really goign to calmly look at it and go 'whatever?"

In my case, yes.

Apokryltaros wrote:Yes, it is true that a baboon, mandrill, or even a rhesus macaque can inflict grievous injuries on some careless twit, but, for some reason, I'd prefer to give a wider berth to a gorilla instead, if only because a gorilla's reach is greater...

That being said, I am not going to pay money or devote tv time to watch a movie where a person turns into a 4 foot tall werewolf.

Okay...this is really driving me nuts.

Part of me really wants to Open my personal 5' 7", 123 lb. can of "WHOOP [spoiler]A**[/spoiler]" on you to teach you to grow out of this Naive lack of respect for creatures of equal or lesser size than you.

Like Reilune, I Have gotten into fights with people far larger and stronger looking than me, and every time, I was the one left standing with a smug look on my face at the end of it.

Serioulsly...if you go on through life with this attitude, you will likely find your Butt handed to you on a platter some day by some 5' 3" dude who you shrugged off as "Not a threat", and mistakenly turned your back on...

...you would be a fool to not be concerned, even if that person was just an ordinary looking guy...but doubly so if it were a 5' 3" WereWolf. Seriously...how could you just shrug that off?

...you couldn't...or you'd pay dearly for it if you did.

Vuldari wrote:

Figarou wrote:Sure its easy to say "the werewolf would shrink a little."


If the werewolf in Freeborn is 100% CGI, that would be easy to do. But how are you going to make someone wearing a werewolf costume look as if he lost some mass compared to his human form?


Lets say they used "real wolves" as the wolf form. How can you explain the incredible loss of mass and size if the wolves they use are small ones?

So...are you suggesting that, instead of using TRUE wolves as the full wolf forms, Giant Bear-Sized Wolves (CGI?-Animatronic?) should be used instead?

One way or another, a decision has to be made.

If you don't want to see them "Shrink" when they change into a Wolf, then either the Gestalt form Can Not be bigger than the Wolf form, or the Wolf form must be as gigantic as the "Uber-Wolf" Gestalt form.

...again...if the Gestalt form is BIGGER than a Human...and the Wolf form is SMALLER than a Human...then transitioning between the three will look very odd.

So...if you don't want any shrinking then either you have to have a Small Gestalt form, or a Large Wolf form.

...either way...if any of the forms are larger than the base, HUMAN form, then they will have to shrink sooner or later when they revert.


I personally think we should avoid the problem alltogether and have all three forms appear to have approximately the same mass and volume...inteligently redistributed into impressive and aestheticly pleasing new shapes.

I didn't say "I don't want shrinking" or "Real wolves not to be used" I'm just trying to make some sence in that area.

Vuldari wrote:Very true.

Another thing just came to mind on this matter as well, inspired by Xodiac's last post.

If we are talking about werewolves that can transform into both 'Gestalt' and 'Full Wolf' forms...and the "Gestalt" form is a sort of transitional, hybrid phase between the two other forms...then it becomes even MORE odd that they would get bigger in that form.

Imagine a transformation from Human, to Gestalt, then to full Wolf. If the Gestalt form were 7-9 feet tall, and the Wolf were the largest size Natural wolves grow to, the person would first double in volume in the mid-stage before dramatically shrinking again before taking on the full Quadrapedal wolf shape. (Which, Mass and Volume wise, is Smaller than the average human).

...that would look really weird...

It was you guys who decalared that a werewolf can be in both gastalt and wolf in the frist place, stop whinning.

Figarou wrote:I didn't say "I don't want shrinking" or "Real wolves not to be used" I'm just trying to make some sence in that area.

Sorry...

I'm just so used to people trying to push one opinion or another, (Something I have been very guilty of myself lately...), that I assumed that you were doing the same somehow.

...but, in fact...you were just posing UNBIASED questions that you thought need to be answered.

Good show Figarou...

...my bad. ...carry on then.