THE PACK Message Boards

Reilune wrote:

Excelsia wrote:Tattoos would go away with a handful of shifts.

Ok...why? The ink is under the skin, that's what makes them permanent. It's still in your body when you shift. If they lose tattoos after a few shifts then where does the ink go? It doesn't disappear when a normal human grows new skin cells because of where it's placed. Why then would a werewolf lose their tattoos?

Well, for one thing, the ink of tatoos fade with time.
Plus, it would be possible for the immune system to attack the ink of the tatoos, too.

the ink could possibly be displaced, i would think, with all the changings going on with a shift

and i ment toe fungus, not tie fungus. damn typos...

I don't think werewolves can regrow anything, but it may be possible to reattach limbs and have the nerves mend themselves, so long as it is done quickly before the body starts trying to heal without it (and the damage wasn't done with silver).

This of course requires a level of healing some aren't comfy with, but it sure beats growing new parts on the fly.

As for the tail, I always assumed it was an extention of the spine, which all turns back into a human spinal column upon shifting back. So removing the tail would not only permanently maim the gestalt form, the human form would suffer too, possibly even becoming parapalegic (though this is an extreme I wouldn't enjoy writing about).

Kavik wrote: As for the tail, I always assumed it was an extention of the spine, which all turns back into a human spinal column upon shifting back. So removing the tail would not only permanently maim the gestalt form, the human form would suffer too, possibly even becoming parapalegic (though this is an extreme I wouldn't enjoy writing about).

I wouldn't say "paraplegic," but, I would think that sitting down will now be a torturous chore in human form.

Apokryltaros wrote:

Kavik wrote: As for the tail, I always assumed it was an extention of the spine, which all turns back into a human spinal column upon shifting back. So removing the tail would not only permanently maim the gestalt form, the human form would suffer too, possibly even becoming parapalegic (though this is an extreme I wouldn't enjoy writing about).

I wouldn't say "paraplegic," but, I would think that sitting down will now be a torturous chore in human form.

That's the extent I'd prefer to take it as well.

Apokryltaros wrote:Well, for one thing, the ink of tatoos fade with time.
Plus, it would be possible for the immune system to attack the ink of the tatoos, too.

Yeah. But it's still there, even if it is a bit washed-out looking.
I've never heard of that. Unless you can give me an instance where that's actually happened with a human being, or even an animal, I won't consider it a likely possibility for werewolves.

Reilune wrote:

Apokryltaros wrote:Well, for one thing, the ink of tatoos fade with time.
Plus, it would be possible for the immune system to attack the ink of the tatoos, too.

Yeah. But it's still there, even if it is a bit washed-out looking.
I've never heard of that. Unless you can give me an instance where that's actually happened with a human being, or even an animal, I won't consider it a likely possibility for werewolves.

My reasoning behind thinking that tattoos would go away after several shifts had to do with all the skin moving around, readjusting and stretching. I'm not sure why, it just seems to me that all that changing and stretching of skin and all that stuff would result in the ink of a tattoo being moved elsewhere from the place where it originally was. After all, whatever makes the body shift couldn't force the ink to shift as well. So, even if a tattoo didn't go away, I think the possibility of it ending up distorted is still very real. There's no guarantee that the ink would end up back where it was to begin with.

Naturally, I can't PROVE this is what would happen. I'm just offering my opinions. Nobody really knows exactly what effects shifting would have on the body, so it's hard to tell what would actually happen to a tattoo.


Edit: As to where the ink would end up if it did move...I'd say it would end up in other layers of the dermis, or the blood stream, or in the muscles or fat...all of which might actually be pretty dangerous.

new skin grows over the old during a shift after several shifts the tattoo would probably be covered......

whitefang wrote:new skin grows over the old during a shift after several shifts the tattoo would probably be covered......

By that logic a Werewolf would quickly have devolped some many skin layers he'd be a massive blob of skin flaps akin to Jabba the Hut.

Only fuzzier.

Kavik wrote: As for the tail, I always assumed it was an extention of the spine, which all turns back into a human spinal column upon shifting back. So removing the tail would not only permanently maim the gestalt form, the human form would suffer too, possibly even becoming parapalegic (though this is an extreme I wouldn't enjoy writing about).

If I remember right, it is mainly the nerves that control bladder function in that part of the spine. So a werewolf with a missing tail could probably still walk, but might have to wear adult diapers!

*It's diaperwolf! Almost as scary as a non-maimed werewolf!*

(Can't find an icon for that. It's probably just as well)

Scott Gardener wrote:I am generally an advocate of "soft regeneration"--the ability to heal cuts in a day or less, or a severed finger in a month, but not a whole arm.

I used to be a bit further back, saying no abnormal recovery, just faster healing of the same wounds a normal human can recover. My basis for this was that my werewolves do not undergo rapid cellular divisions; their cells just migrate and individually transform.

But, the need for rapid healing and regenerative abilities is implied by the shapeshifting process, and, more noteworthy, I've learned from cases like the regenerating mice that it is far more plausible and genetically easy to accomplish than I had previously believed. If regeneration can be done by tweaking only a few genes, then it's an easy thing to throw in with the far more complicated process of transformation into another mammal. And, it keeps the werewolf alive during the shifting process.

I like the soft regeneration theory of werewolves, but brings up an interesting problem. there are a number of people form with small deformities like extra or webbed fingers/toes, and being born with a tail
i knew someone that had an extra finger, was removed shortly after being born, and my Highschool biology teacher had a boyfriend that was born with a tail, then removed.
With the soft regeneration theory, if someone had such a deformity like a tail/extra finger but surgically removed, wouldn't that person, after being infected with lycantropy, eventually start to grow that missing piece back?
that could lead to some interesting problems with werewolves. wouldn't be very good if you had to keep cutting off that extra finger once a month to remain 'normal' in human form

only if the bone is still connected. if a 'wolf dips his hand in acid until there was bone AND connecting ligaments, he'll be able to grow the hand back.
If someone cuts the limb off at the bone and the 'wolf holds the limb to the hole, it won't do it.

I did a search and while simular topics exist nothing on this exact topic was around.

Thsi thought hit me with the tatoo thread about a werewolf bleeding out the ink and healing the scar if its a super-regenerater type werewolf.

Now of course with this type you would expect signs like piercings closeing up, ingrown toenails vanishing and eyesight improvement.

All things a clever person could make excuses for and cover up if noticed by people.

Maybe even lost tonsils coming back could be explained away as this does happen.

Now other things, pancrease and appendix could return, and with the wolf part become useful organs. But this is internal who would notice, aside from the surgary scars vanishing.

Next is Wisdom teeth coming back, not as easy to explain if noticed. After all who would believe you would spend the money to have fake wisdom teeth made?

and it gets weirder.
one really big one for guys that occured to me, now this may seem a little R rated but it is legitimate. The Foreskin. When you're circumcised its cut off, this is done regularly in many places as its seen as either hygenic or an aesthitic thing.
Now if this guy was bitten and had a girl friend he had been intimate with before this may be hard to explain.

Now the discussion: thoughts on these, ideas on how a werewolf may cover for them. Or other problems you see arising from super-regeniration?

If it's circumcision you're asking, i think the cut skin would just imitate the process of healing up once stitched up... Only about a few hundred times faster.

Personally i only see the issue of "s***, i have to cover this and that up or else [object] is stuck in there! I can't afford the pain of cutting my skin open again to get that thing out!!" when it comes to super-regeneration. Like, you have to be really fast about procedures. If hammerspace science is appliable, there would be some sort of device that slows down the regeneration speed indefinitely to buy surgeons time to fix everything until it's done.


I haven't thought about other potential problems except for the obvious. Hurr.

I dont think anybody would ever pay enough attention to wisdom teeth. I dont think Id noticed if my mate lost and grew them. But some of the other things are indeed more noticible. But I think as long as your calm about most of the smaller ones, no one will even think twice about it.

I don't think anything removed is coming back.

When someone's arm is cut off, the body's like "Job's done" on the healing end once the bleeding is stopped and the skin has formed over what's left of what once was a limb.

Becoming a werewolf isn't going to make the body suddenly go "Gee, lets fix that better".

Though, I can see things like piercings closing up (they do that anyways).

And since a lycanthrope usually possesses a sheath (if for nothing else, to keep certain things from flopping around when you move and like, totally ruining your scary-ness.. ) I could see the foreskin possibly returning simply because the sheath and foreskin are pretty much he same thing and there's no reason for the body to remove it after the shift and there's no way for it to know it shouldn't be there because it was previously removed.

Of course, there's no way for lycanthropy to know how short or long your hair was, yet lycanthropes generally retain their hair-length. So its' debatable that the foreskin would return.

I'm not a fan of the super-regenerating werewolf, myself. There is some regeneration, but its more in the terms of healing damagequicker and easier.

Lycanthropy isn't going to fix your eyes, or give you back a lost limb.

I put a scene in the original version of Camp Lycanthrope where Pablo's teeth grew back, and upon his first transformation, they PUSHED his SILVER FILLINGS out of his mouth, which was filled with smoke ( cos he became allergic to silver. )

>Pablo's teeth grew back, and upon his first transformation, they PUSHED >his SILVER FILLINGS out of his mouth . . .

I'm working on a photomorph right now and have quickly discovered that using visible teeth is a problem. As shown in the "Teeth, Fangs, and Jaws" section of http://www.wolfhowl.org/anatomy.php, wolves have six teeth visible between the large fangs, while a human jaw has only four incisors between the canine teeth. I first planned to have human canine teeth grow out into fangs, but that's not working too well.

It sounds just having the teeth grow back is a better approach.

and it gets weirder.
one really big one for guys that occured to me, now this may seem a little R rated but it is legitimate. The Foreskin.

This actually got a brief mention in my novel, though I think it got deleted in the latest draft. It was a throw-away line. For that matter, I had a dental filling fall out in previous versions, but I forgot to write it into the current version. My werewolves aren't affected by silver; the filling just was pushed out by the teeth reshaping themselves.

My take on werewolves has hair reabsorbed by the body when shifting. With skill and practice, one can even control hair length. Conversely, until one does, hair length gets screwy. It's also where the eyebrow thing comes from; until one can keep the middle from growing out, one's eyebrows tend to be conjoined when shifting back to human form, since they regenerate themselves, unplucking and un-shaving themselves.

and it gets weirder. one really big one for guys that occured to me, now this may seem a little R rated but it is legitimate. The Foreskin.

Basically, no jewish werewolves.

Didn't we already have a thread simular to this one?

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewtopic.php?t=1582

I did search to see if the same topic was around. strange.

My view on regeneration. I can forsee that after the initial transformation regeneration isn't lost limbs regrow wolverine from marvel comics level.

however I see the initial transformation alot like a frog or butterfly where it has a distinct default design and grows any missing organs or body parts not present that are in the default werewolf form. After all if it can grow a tail and make your skull like a wolf's then why not missing organs and skin?

IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO POST IN AN EXISTING TOPIC THAN TO START A NEW ONE!!!

Figarou, mege please.

Rhuen wrote:I did search to see if the same topic was around. strange.

My view on regeneration. I can forsee that after the initial transformation regeneration isn't lost limbs regrow wolverine from marvel comics level.

however I see the initial transformation alot like a frog or butterfly where it has a distinct default design and grows any missing organs or body parts not present that are in the default werewolf form. After all if it can grow a tail and make your skull like a wolf's then why not missing organs and skin?

During ppuberty, why can a woman get breasts, and a man a beard, yet not restore a finger or a patch of burnt off hair?

There's a difference between modification of the existing, addition of something new, and repair of damage/restoration of lost parts.

Aki wrote:

Rhuen wrote:I did search to see if the same topic was around. strange.

My view on regeneration. I can forsee that after the initial transformation regeneration isn't lost limbs regrow wolverine from marvel comics level.

however I see the initial transformation alot like a frog or butterfly where it has a distinct default design and grows any missing organs or body parts not present that are in the default werewolf form. After all if it can grow a tail and make your skull like a wolf's then why not missing organs and skin?

During ppuberty, why can a woman get breasts, and a man a beard, yet not restore a finger or a patch of burnt off hair?

There's a difference between modification of the existing, addition of something new, and repair of damage/restoration of lost parts.

I have to argue on this one. As breasts and beards are hormonal changes, a slight modification created by chemical levels in the body that are triggered through a natural process.
While transforming into a werewolf is a total re-write of the individuals entire body on the genetic level.