THE PACK Message Boards

Trinity wrote:PetCo has all kinds of nifty things for pets. Including breath mints. XD

*chuckles*

Maybe I could slip some of those to my cat...

*Chews on a minty bone* chew chew chew swallow " Hmmm, not bad" Chew Chew Chew...

Shadow Wulf wrote:*Chews on a minty bone* chew chew chew swallow " Hmmm, not bad" Chew Chew Chew...

here, have another. You need it.

needs some bbq sauce

Jamie wrote:

Quote:
hey, I liked that part with Cursed, where the werewolf flicked them off,"LIAR" that was one of the coolest and funniest things I saw in a werewolf movie(finaly something to laugh in these type of flicks)

I actually liked that moment too, because of the humor, but I didn't like the other times she "talked" in monster form at all. Also, I've heard way too many people making fun of the talking werewolves in "Cursed". Even if I like something personally, I think that the producers of Freeborn need to be leery of things that tend to cause people to make fun of werewolf movies.
It is kind of like with books. If an author slips up big-time in just one scene of a novel, there could be so much derision from fans that the entire novel ends up being thought of as stupid, even if the rest of it is excellent. I'm not 100% against talking werewolves, I'm just mostly against them and I think that any movie-maker should really be sure and think about it hard before trying it.

I totaly agree, but I was wondering, what other parts where the werewolf talked?

If you turn on subtitles on the DVD, the werewolf talked quite a bit. It is hard to understand if you don't have the subtitles turned on, but if you can see what the werewolf is saying while it is saying it, then it seems quite obvious.

can you post as many things the werewolf said, i dont have the dvd so i cant findo out right now.

can you post as many things the werewolf said, i dont have the dvd so i cant findo out right now.

Sorry, I don't own the DVD, I just rented it. The subtitles were on (this was the second time I had seen it) because my husband has trouble understanding dialogue without them. I remember that the first time I saw "Cursed" the only time I noticed the werewolf talking was when she said "Liar" and flipped the bird, though there were a couple other times when I thought "Did she just say something? No, must have been imagining it".
I don't remember any of the specific dialogue other than the famous "Liar" line, but I do recall that most of the werewolf talking was in the long climax scene in the nightclub towards the end of the movie. So, if you watch it again just for the talking werewolf, you'd have to wait a long time, nearly until the end of the film.

i know she was talking while transforming, but i dont think that count cause it was before the muzzle grew out.

I didn't know that. After the transformation secene I had no idea she was talking at all.

Lupin wrote:I didn't know that. After the transformation secene I had no idea she was talking at all.

Heh.....now you got me interested in watching the movie with the subtitles on.

Someone did a study and found that wolf and human vocal tracts — the windpipe, voicebox, et alia — are virtually identical. I'd have the werewolf talking, but doing it like Moro in Princess Mononoke did: mostly in the throat, with the jaws and tongue moving only slightly and intermittently. Nothing you could lip-read by.

Wolves have highly evocative voices. Howls are hauntingly beautiful, at least to my ears. Might there be a way a werewolf could use their voice to seduce a human? Not necessarily for sex, but to move or sway emotions, instill a sense of wonder, fascination.

I am in favor of werewolves talking. In my opinion, body language or hand signals would look corny and would be made fun of. Of course, it would take them a while to learn how, but they would eventually. As far as the belief that as soon as they TFed back to human, they would lose all they had learned while speaking in wolf form, I disagree. I don't forget how to drive everytime I get outta my car, but driving and walking are entirely different, in terms of body movements.

True, if the talking were done wrong it would be laughed at. But if done right, it could be awesome. And of course, they wouldn't talk more than they needed to.

Since most werewolves were born as werewolves, they would probably be reasonable well adept at speaking with their wolf faces and tongues. New weres wouldn't be so lucky, but eventually they'd learn. Also, even if werewolves couldn't form some sounds, they would probably sorta intuitively know what the other is saying. Perhaps the talking could be almost impossible for humans to understand, but weres could understand easily because they are used to this way of speaking. Then we could have subtitles.

I am not in favor of an impromptu language consisting of sounds and signals. No offense, but these guys are still more human than wolf, even if they were born werewolves, simply because the human mind is far more complicated than a wolf's. The human mind would be in control, and the weres would desire to communicate as a humans do and be as human as possible even in gestalt form. AFter all, if the human mind did not take precedence over the wolf mind, they would probably just stay in full wolf for the rest of their lives. Much simpler lifestyle, but the human mind loves complication.

Anyway, that is just my opinion. I would love it if werewolves talked, albeit in a deep, growly, werewolfy voice.

*Would like to add that even if their communication consisted mainly of body language and signals, there should still be some verbal communication. Even if they choose not to talk, they should still be able to if they tried really hard.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with the statement made about roaring. I kinda like it when werewolves roar. But I can understand why some people wouldn't. What I think would be really cool would be to create a new sound for the werewolves to make. The combo of human and wolf vocal chords and tongue could make some sort of new sound possible. What I mean by new sound is something like the screech in Godzilla, or that weird throaty noise from the grudge. I don't mean it should sound like those things, but it should be distinctive to whatever creature it belongs to; some kind of new distinctive noise that werewolves could make. Maybe like a bark/howl. Ominous music could play in the background, and then we could hear the bark/howl...it could signal their presence before we see them and it could be scary. Kinda like in the grudge when you heard that noise but couldn't really see anything yet.

Anyway, just an idea.

I think a talking werewolf would be neat. I don't think they should talk a lot though, just what's needed. I also think their voices should be growly. I don't think they forget how to talk in gestalt form because people with retainers don't totally forget how to talk with them in when they're not wearing them. They might lisp for a little bit, but they get over it in a little while. Unless they're like me and haven't worn it in months or a year. Then it's awkward. I think gestalts might have a little bit of trouble speaking after they transform, but they'll get over it quickly, more or less.

Vrikasatma wrote:Someone did a study and found that wolf and human vocal tracts — the windpipe, voicebox, et alia — are virtually identical. I'd have the werewolf talking, but doing it like Moro in Princess Mononoke did: mostly in the throat, with the jaws and tongue moving only slightly and intermittently. Nothing you could lip-read by.

Wolves have highly evocative voices. Howls are hauntingly beautiful, at least to my ears. Might there be a way a werewolf could use their voice to seduce a human? Not necessarily for sex, but to move or sway emotions, instill a sense of wonder, fascination.

Perhaps but the primary thing that allows humans to speak is the set up in our mouths. The voice box is in a place that aloows us to speak, yes. But its the toungue and the mouth structure that allows for specific words, and sounds.

Quoting myself here:

Trinity wrote:
Back on Topic. ;) *wags to all*

Now as to vocalizations, beside wolfish ones we all know and love. Certain sound could be produced.

R's ( rolling r's ), Vowels, S's, Possibly F's ( but not well formed ), G's ( that sound like Guh from a throat-pinch sound. Very Germanic in some ways. But not the Gee we know. ), H's ( with huffing sounds, but not Aa-ch ), K ( like hard C's, but as a throaty click, or click of the tongue on teh roof of the mouth ), L's, M's ( hums but not Emm ), Q's ( could be done with difficultly but sound click-like, like a K ), X's ( Hard X sound )


B's, D's, F's, G's, H's, J, K, L, M, N, P, Q, T, V, W, X, Z would all be extremely difficult if not impossible with the shape of the muzzle and tongue. ( Except where noted above ).

Now I'm no speech therapist, btu I am an antimation major who has had to study sounds for lip synchs. Let me tell yuo trying to DRAW f's is a biznitch! heh And may childern find F's and T's to be some of the harder consonants to master.

My two cents.

Next.., ;)

Excelsia wrote:I am in favor of werewolves talking. In my opinion, body language or hand signals would look corny and would be made fun of. Of course, it would take them a while to learn how, but they would eventually.

See above points. As for body language no its not corney if done properly.

You don't laugh when the camera gets close up to someones face as s/he slowly "realizes" soemthing ( unless it dones for humor purposes ). That's body language.

You don't laugh when someone goes into a fighting stance. That's body language.

You don't laugh when someone raises an eyebrow. That's Body language.

you don't laugh when someone poitns a finger at you then makes the "come here" finger movement.

Now over-exgerated body language tends to be humourous, yes. But if done properly with teh correct film editing and such, it doesn't look funny at all.

Excelsia wrote: As far as the belief that as soon as they TFed back to human, they would lose all they had learned while speaking in wolf form, I disagree. I don't forget how to drive everytime I get outta my car, but driving and walking are entirely different, in terms of body movements.

This I agree one whole heartedly. Some body movements become second nature. I learned how to drive a stick shift. then I lost that car. I got an Automatic and drove that for like 7+years until I got my newer car ( used ). Its a stickshift. It took me -one day- to get used to teh car's specific feel. After that I was whipping around corners, and drvingin it like it was an extention of myself.

You just don't loose those abilities instantly. You'd have to be like lobotomized or something.

Drawing is the same thing. Crafting somethign is the same thing. You may get rusty, but otften that takes a while to take into effect.

So loosing one's "abiality to speak" naything I'm wholely agaisnt.

Excelsia wrote:True, if the talking were done wrong it would be laughed at. But if done right, it could be awesome. And of course, they wouldn't talk more than they needed to.

Agreed, and the same could be said for other modes of communication. If done wrong it would long terrible. if done right it would be awesome.

Excelsia wrote:Since most werewolves were born as werewolves, they would probably be reasonable well adept at speaking with their wolf faces and tongues.

New weres wouldn't be so lucky, but eventually they'd learn. Also, even if werewolves couldn't form some sounds, they would probably sorta intuitively know what the other is saying. Perhaps the talking could be almost impossible for humans to understand, but weres could understand easily because they are used to this way of speaking. Then we could have subtitles.

I kinda like that idea. Its a hybrid compromise, sort of what I was going for myself.


As for the roaring aspect of things.., a wolf snarl-growls in an extend form. and that could very much be made to sound like a werewolf roar if done right.

Now that, I think, woul dbe neat.

Trinity: first of all, let me say that I am glad you and I seem to be on the same page about most things. There is something I would like to clear up, however.

I used the term 'body language' inappropriately. What I should have said was 'hand signals', such as pointing, drawing little maps in the air, holding up fingers for numbers, tapping wrists for time, other sign language type things, etc. The examples you gave of body language I am totally in favor of, and I don't think they would be corny at all.

In summary, I am in favor of body language (such as the examples you gave), but not hand signals.

Excelsia wrote:Trinity: first of all, let me say that I am glad you and I seem to be on the same page about most things. There is something I would like to clear up, however.

I used the term 'body language' inappropriately. What I should have said was 'hand signals', such as pointing, drawing little maps in the air, holding up fingers for numbers, tapping wrists for time, other sign language type things, etc. The examples you gave of body language I am totally in favor of, and I don't think they would be corny at all.

In summary, I am in favor of body language (such as the examples you gave), but not hand signals.

heh, agreed. I can think of any number of times I've had to use outward hand singals, adn they do get a bit ridiclous. ;)

*chuckles*

Charades anyone?

lol, yeah, going over board with hand signal would be a bit silly.

WW 1- *making signs in the air with his hands/paws.*

WW 2-*holds up a finger* err...hold on *flips through an American Sign Launguage book*

Ok, at first, I was only strongly in favor of werewolves talking. But I just watched that clip on the first page, and I am now COMPLETEY AND TOTALLY in favor of werewolves talking! That wolf is awesome!

I don't think Werewolves should "talk" as in speaking English like a human. If they've got a muzzle, they may be able to produce sound similarly to a human, but they don't have the same kind of facial mobility that a human does to shape those sounds into consonants, vowels, and eventually words or sentences.

If you want to talk about a seperate "language" comprised of wolf/dog-typical sounds and body posture, certainly they can communicate very effectively.

It all depends on the human. If the human has a kind heart, or is somewhat of an artisan... of any kind... then speach would be possible. Those with a cruel heart, or evil intent of misusing the shapeshifting ability granted to them, speach would be a lost cause for them. The gift of transforming turns into a curse torturing the person. The werewolf with the ability of speach would have a deeper voice, but pretty much still sound like themselves. Werewolves(and creatures of the same genre[werefoxes and what-not]) no matter the condition of the heart could still communicate with humans, either vocally or in writing.

I can see the lycanthropic community coming up with the slang phrase "speaking lycanthropese" for trying to talk while in wolf or Gestalt form.

Scott Gardener wrote:I can see the lycanthropic community coming up with the slang phrase "speaking lycanthropese" for trying to talk while in wolf or Gestalt form.

Heh heh, that would be pretty awesome.


Truthfully, I really do think some talking would be possible. They probably couldn't say tongue-twisters, and stuff like that, but talking should at least be something they are capable of, if they try hard and practice. Since it would be rather difficult, they obviously wouldn't be chatterboxes in gestalt form.

they know just a few, growling, words(just enough to scare someone, like"Die!" )

Excelsia wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote:I can see the lycanthropic community coming up with the slang phrase "speaking lycanthropese" for trying to talk while in wolf or Gestalt form.

Heh heh, that would be pretty awesome.


Truthfully, I really do think some talking would be possible. They probably couldn't say tongue-twisters, and stuff like that, but talking should at least be something they are capable of, if they try hard and practice. Since it would be rather difficult, they obviously wouldn't be chatterboxes in gestalt form.

*nods* This seems like the best case scenario. If you ever watched Amazing Animal Videos on Animal Planet, you've probably seen one of those videos of a cat or a dog saying "hello." It's not so much a matter of an inability to articulate speech so much as it is a lack of understanding.

Werewolves differ from other canines, of course, in that they already know the English language. The big challenge would be working with a muzzle and tongue. They'd probably at first only be able to pronounce H, W, L, and all the vowels at first, but with practice, they could improve. The only dilemma would be that they'd never be able to articulate speech perfectly -- even the best speaker would have to talk slowly to make sure he gets all his syllables right.