THE PACK Message Boards

Terastas wrote: *nods* This seems like the best case scenario. If you ever watched Amazing Animal Videos on Animal Planet, you've probably seen one of those videos of a cat or a dog saying "hello." It's not so much a matter of an inability to articulate speech so much as it is a lack of understanding.

Werewolves differ from other canines, of course, in that they already know the English language. The big challenge would be working with a muzzle and tongue. They'd probably at first only be able to pronounce H, W, L, and all the vowels at first, but with practice, they could improve. The only dilemma would be that they'd never be able to articulate speech perfectly -- even the best speaker would have to talk slowly to make sure he gets all his syllables right.

The fangs can prevent some letters to be pronounced. Imagine yourself with them. Now try saying any word with the letter "f." Say forecast, future. ETC.


I know I mentioned this before.

Actually, I'd expect "p"s to sound like "f"s.

Or, in lycanthropese:

Acthally, I'th ecthfecth "feeth" tho sound likh "effth."

Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, I'd expect "p"s to sound like "f"s.

Or, in lycanthropese:

Acthally, I'th ecthfecth "feeth" tho sound likh "effth."

*shrugs* No more of a linguistic adventure than a teen with a tongue stud will give you.

they can talk if they really tried but the elongated mouth and tongue is hard to prounounce human language but with difficulty and practice it can be done and I do agree its probably going to be a bit... hard to understand and growly. Like the werebitch off "Cursed" when she tried to talk, much like that. You have to pay attention to figure out what they are saying.

I agree with KnownToBite for the most part, except my idea places it as being a bit harder and less intelligable. I can imagine it being all but gibberish to one who wasn't used to it, even coming from a well practiced werewolf, unless he/she was trying extremely hard to be clear.

Ralith Lupus wrote:I agree with KnownToBite for the most part, except my idea places it as being a bit harder and less intelligable. I can imagine it being all but gibberish to one who wasn't used to it, even coming from a well practiced werewolf, unless he/she was trying extremely hard to be clear.

*nods* Good point. The likeliness is that any human counterparts would develop an understanding of the "werewolf accent" before any werewolf could learn to pronounce everything properly. And that's in the best case scenario -- the more likely scenario would be that the werewolves get fed up with trying to slur words together long before the person their trying to talk to understands them and instead responds with random hand gestures accompanied by frustrated snarling.

At least, that'd be the case with werewolves. The feline vocal system apparently sophisitcated enough to pronounce human speech (though they lack the mental capacity for such), so a werecat like myself wouldn't have that kind of problem.

wasn't there a senerio out there were the werewolves had thier own sort of language? It would make some sense; they wouldn't nessisarily have to use all those hard to make sounds.

Terastas wrote:At least, that'd be the case with werewolves. Feline vocal chords are apparently sophisitcated enough to pronounce human speech (though they lack the mental capacity for such), so a werecat like myself wouldn't have that kind of problem.

It's not the vocal chords, it's the tongue, lips, and teeth that do most of the modulation involved in human speech. This is why an unvoiced whisper is still understandable.

Timber-WoIf wrote:wasn't there a senerio out there were the werewolves had thier own sort of language? It would make some sense; they wouldn't nessisarily have to use all those hard to make sounds.

It's possible that they could have had a language, but it's unlikely that they would still be speaking it, especially in a pack as small as the one in Freeborn. Learning to speak the original language with a different set of mouth parts would be difficult, but not nearly as much as learning a new language altogether.

Lupin wrote:It's not the vocal chords, it's the tongue, lips, and teeth that do most of the modulation involved in human speech. This is why an unvoiced whisper is still understandable.

Correction made.

I had another thought. Canine mouths can certainly pronounce some consonant and vowel sounds, though not all. Of course, even then, it would take practice. But of course, there is always the possibility that they would avoid words that have sounds they can't pronounce. Most English words have more than one word that means the same thing, so they could probably communicate reasonably well, but with a limited vocabulary. Some words don't have another word that means the same thing, like...'fish'. Fish has an 'f', so it'd probably be hard to say. For such a word, they would probably just do the best they could and the other werewolves would know what they mean.

So, my thoughts are:
-they can speak
-it requires a great deal of practice
-their voices are very growly/werewolfy (whatever that means...)
-some consonant sounds cannot be made, no matter how hard they try, so they would avoid them as best they could
-an average werewolf speaker would still be hard to understand
-other experiences werewolves are familiar with the dialect and they can understand each other relatively easily, though strangers couldn't
-they would limit their speaking when not in human form, since it is challenging

Excelsia wrote:-their voices are very growly/werewolfy (whatever that means...)

Like a lifelong smoker with a speech impediment?

Terastas wrote:

Excelsia wrote:-their voices are very growly/werewolfy (whatever that means...)

Like a lifelong smoker with a speech impediment?

Perhaps.

In truth, I think it would be something like what a dog's voice sounds like, only deeper. Dogs are capable of saying simple words, but they don't have the brains to really care to practice it. I think that werewolves in gestalt or wolf form would sound something like that, but they would have bigger vocabularies, because they have human brains, and because they've probably practiced. It's an interesting question, and one that I don't really have an answer to. All I have is suggestions.

What I think: Wolves can relearn how to talk, but it would be a strain on their vocal cords. They would never be able to talk WELL, but in the anthro (can't remember the name of the 1/2 wolf form, sorry) form, it's much easier then the wolf form where they could barely talk, and it's a much larger strain. They do have their own language, one of mostly body language, and simple sounds that would be easy for a wolf to make, you don't have to make it an entirly consistent language, but I would suggest watching real wolves, and reading up a LOT on wolf comunication. A lot of it indicates rank, but I would advise making sure to get that part right, as it is important in real wolf society. Improvise/guess at the rest, but if you even just watch real wolves a lot, you'll probably start to pick some understanding up...

I would give subtitles for this...I would also try not to make it seem *quite* as complicated as english, but close would be alright.

How they learn, the basics would be instinctual, BUT, they don't get all their instincts the first time they transform, they get more and more for the first times, until their brain gets, er, acustomed to it...Complicated speech would have to be learned, but might be a bit easier to pick up then humans learning a human language...

Actually, I think a language all their own would be nice. [If it hasn't already been mentioned, of course, i'm too lazy to read the whole thread, sorry >_<]
ANyways, i've devised a language, complete with pronunciation guide and a short story told in it. I might be persuaded to share it if convinced. Reason I say that, is because it might not be openly accepted. [or something has already similarly been done, etc . . .]

[EDIT] Heh, should've known better to jump ahead. seems its already been done. Still, my proposal still stands.

well, theoretically, a werewolf is a melding of man and wolf, right? so , naturally, the vocal chords would be an amalgamation, as with the toungue and mouth/muzzle. and the human mind would still have bearing in the actions of the body. so i think that a werewolf's voice tone and the pronunciation would be affected, but not their actual ability to communicate in human language.

celtwolf wrote:well, theoretically, a werewolf is a melding of man and wolf, right? so , naturally, the vocal chords would be an amalgamation, as with the toungue and mouth/muzzle. and the human mind would still have bearing in the actions of the body. so i think that a werewolf's voice tone and the pronunciation would be affected, but not their actual ability to communicate in human language.

Welcome to the pack, celtwolf!

At this particular time, it seems as though the majority of the people on this site are leaning towards the werewolves have fully canine heads, on a humanoid body that is covered in fur and has digitigrade legs. So, the muzzle will most likely be almost entirely canine. However, I think it's quite possible that the tongue (it could be thicker, like a human's) and vocal chords could be a mixture, so I think you've brought up a good point.

thank you.
and yes, i'm still in the process of reading through the forum, but i think that this would work as far as following logic. pretty much the only problem with this is, how would the voice change exactly? deeper? growlier? weaker? stronger? defined accent? i can't really be sure. i guess leaving it to the director and the sound designer would be best.

celtwolf wrote:pretty much the only problem with this is, how would the voice change exactly? deeper? growlier? weaker? stronger? defined accent?

Good question, and one that's not exactly hard to answer, especially since we generally associate wolves with one of two sounds: low-pitched growling or high-pitched howling.

The only thing I could say for sure is that their voice would not be stronger, regardless of wether it more closely resembles a growl or a howl. Either they would always sound like their sad, or like a lifelong smoker with braces. Either way, I wouldn't consider it an improvement.

Terastas wrote:

celtwolf wrote:pretty much the only problem with this is, how would the voice change exactly? deeper? growlier? weaker? stronger? defined accent?

Good question, and one that's not exactly hard to answer, especially since we generally associate wolves with one of two sounds: low-pitched growling or high-pitched howling.

The only thing I could say for sure is that their voice would not be stronger, regardless of wether it more closely resembles a growl or a howl. Either they would always sound like their sad, or like a lifelong smoker with braces. Either way, I wouldn't consider it an improvement.

Welll....I've heard them make a range of noises from low pitched howling, growling, 'buffing' (kind of like a bark, although wolves don't bark like dogs) all the way to very high pitched, howling, whining, yelping, and yapping. (And high and low pitched Nrrrr-ing, (a voiced growl, usually not used as agressively) Remember that dogs (although they sound a little different then wolves) Can pronounce english words understandably, if not perfectly, the only problem is understanding...

Terastas wrote:

celtwolf wrote:pretty much the only problem with this is, how would the voice change exactly? deeper? growlier? weaker? stronger? defined accent?

Good question, and one that's not exactly hard to answer, especially since we generally associate wolves with one of two sounds: low-pitched growling or high-pitched howling.

The only thing I could say for sure is that their voice would not be stronger, regardless of wether it more closely resembles a growl or a howl. Either they would always sound like their sad, or like a lifelong smoker with braces. Either way, I wouldn't consider it an improvement.

Hmmmm.....changes in the throat can affect the sounds of the vocal cords. Even the nasal passage way can affect it. A person with a clogged up nose during a cold can have problems saying a few words.

"I dink a hab a code" (I think I have a cold)

Can the nasal passage way of a wolf affect its howl? If it does, what pitch will it be at if its clogged up?

Terastas wrote:The only thing I could say for sure is that their voice would not be stronger, regardless of wether it more closely resembles a growl or a howl. Either they would always sound like their sad, or like a lifelong smoker with braces. Either way, I wouldn't consider it an improvement.

Hm, I disagree. The sound of a smoker's voice doesn't really share any qualities with the sounds normally made by a wolf.

Can the nasal passage way of a wolf affect its howl? If it does, what pitch will it be at if its clogged up?

Well, all wolves howls are different, they're like the lupine equivelant of fingerprints. We can hear them howl, but not note the differences, our hearing isn't that developed.

I'm sure the nasal passage is a factor to the differentiating sounds, however the core of the sound itself comes from the shape of the muzzle and the minor vocal cords a wolf possesses. My guess, if the nasal passageways are clogged up [a wolf with a cold? clogged nasal passageways? is that even possible?] would be a much lower pitch. not much of a difference sound wise, but I don't believe the nasal passage is a Large factor.

Also, I've heard many humans howl, but I've heard one who was severely congested by bronchitis. His voice was rough, but when he howled: There was no difference in pitch. The howl itself was unchanged, as if a normal human howling. It could possibly be the same thing with a wolf.

I guess that we all agree that the common Werewolf couldn't use his lips and only minimal tongue. So I'd imagine it to sound a little bit like this:

http://www.mytempdir.com/238733

...woof.

Creature SH wrote:I guess that we all agree that the common Werewolf couldn't use his lips and only minimal tongue. So I'd imagine it to sound a little bit like this:

http://www.mytempdir.com/238733

...woof.

I am ??? in your heart. What did it say?

Lupin wrote:Hm, I disagree. The sound of a smoker's voice doesn't really share any qualities with the sounds normally made by a wolf.

*nods* Yeah... Yeah, maybe "smoker" wasn't the best comparrison I could have used. *sticks a duckie in his ear* My bad.

Creature SH wrote:I guess that we all agree that the common Werewolf couldn't use his lips and only minimal tongue. So I'd imagine it to sound a little bit like this:

http://www.mytempdir.com/238733

Luke, I am your dad?
Heh. At any rate, I think this is why most werewolves would become aggravated with it before they could perfect it. I mean. . . Except in really urgent cases, whenever they wanted to say something, they could just save it until back in human form, right?