THE PACK Message Boards

Actually timing the TF's and getting personal input and opinios on them is a dern good idea. Though i don't think the person posting this realized the use of it.

Film is all about timing. This is why you get some scenes cut out.., for timing reasons.

Like amusical score, films, animation, what ever has to have a certain visual rythmn. if a scene boggs down that rythmn, then its cut. If the scene adds nothing more to the movie then is absoultely nessecary ( directors and editors opinion of course ) then its cut.

TF scenes are vital to werewolf movies, but if they are over long they can bigg things down.

So to make this post EXTREMELY useful ^.^ More so then perhaps was origanally intended, perhaps we all dan add our two cents about how we felt when watching the TF"s.

Not 'oh my god it didn't have a tail!', but more along the lines of, "it was cool but too long"..,

or "they focused too much of the feet."

or "they showed more of the head then the rest of the body"

Or "they used cut sequences rather then actually showing the transformation"

etc

On top of that have the TFs, as origanlly posted, documented. How long, what happened, how they showed it.

Also listing scenes, placement in the movies and time code ( or rough time code as can be found on your VCR ) would make it immensely helpful I'm sure. ;)

Oh yes I did Trinity That was the post of the last post I made on the subject. Basically because I wanted to see what I could do with the time I had originally for my TF scenes and if I could use some of these idea towards my future films.....hopefully I always look at everything in the TF scene and how long it took for one part to completely change and also at what changed first and what would be a good idea in my movies to be noticed first about the TF in the movie It really is useful Trinity

*bows*

*grins*

Just remember a long, detailed TF does not make for a good movie. There are a lot of ww fans, and fans of transformations in general, that seem to foget this.

Xodiac wrote:Just remember a long, detailed TF does not make for a good movie. There are a lot of ww fans, and fans of transformations in general, that seem to foget this.

There is no need to show everything transforming. Having the tail extend is something new. That'll be interesting to see. A retracting tail may not be interesting to some folks. Who knows.


If there is more than one transformation scene, you can pick a few parts to show on one werewolf, then show something different on other. Sort of mix it up.

Shadow Wulf wrote:im not judging anyone, i just wish people can be alittle more passsive about things, like you know the van helsing no tail problem, im like yeah it could have been better wtih a tail, but its good enough, in fact wtih all the other werewolf movies out there, its almost more than what we ask for. while other people keep mentioning over and over, the van helsing should have had a tail, it looks wrong, the ears are way too pointy its not anything how a werewolf should be. im more passsive about how a werewolf looks like in movies than anyone else in here it seems like, alot of people are just too picky.

i too have grown abit tired about people saying werewolf designs are wrong. i mean, i dont like all werewolfs i see. but if one looks other than my vision, then its because its someone elses vision.

you should never abandon your own visions.

Rick Baker's American Werewolf in London would have to be the best shift of all time--it really set the tone for everything else. But, oddly enough, none of us seem particularly interested in the wolf form; it was the process of getting there that got our attention. In fact, that shift MADE the movie. If it had been done poorly, that movie might have been seen as nothing more than a Howling imitation. Further evidence that Rick Baker is God.

The reason it was so memorable is that it looked real. You felt it. It didn't look like a movie effect. In everything from Cursed to our beloved The Howling, the shifts look like visual effects. But, in AWIL, the effects look real. David Naughton's acting--the expressions and the way he portrayed the groans of pain--was an essential part of it. The visual effects, from the complex prosthetics--weeks of work to do a half-second of screen time--to the perfect editing of each angle, all added up to a transformation that was felt by the viewer.

I wish I had seen it back when the movie first came out; back when no one was used to seeing werewolf shifts that looked like anything other than obviously fake fade-ins.

Underworld has probably the best use of CGI shifting. Yes, yes, the actual final forms were done with full body suits, and yes, yes, they looked extremely un-lupine. But, the actual shifting looked believable, which is more than can be said of the CGI shifting of Cursed or D*rkwolf.

A shapeshift by a seasoned shifter should look smooth, and should convey the emotion of being glad to get out of that human skin. Likewise, a first shift should have that sense of panic, pain, and possibly astonishment. Emotion is essential.

But, it should look real. It shouldn't look like CGI, or like puppetry, or fades, or latex prosthetics over air bladders. It should look like a person turning into a wolf.

The reason it was so memorable is that it looked real. You felt it. It didn't look like a movie effect. In everything from Cursed to our beloved The Howling, the shifts look like visual effects. But, in AWIL, the effects look real. David Naughton's acting--the expressions and the way he portrayed the groans of pain--was an essential part of it. The visual effects, from the complex prosthetics--weeks of work to do a half-second of screen time--to the perfect editing of each angle, all added up to a transformation that was felt by the viewer.

This is true. Though the final form was uninteresting, that shift is probably the realest-looking shapeshift in movie history. I'm sure that it will be topped someday by something that looks even more real, but, right now, it is the realest.
I think that human-to-animal transformations are truly the last frontier in special effects. Every other type of special effect has been largely perfected, so that we can have something that looks quite real as long as we throw enough money at it and don't hire lazy or stupid special effects guys. But with shapeshifting, we are still struggling to equal the special effects in a movie made over two decades ago.
I also think that this is one of the reasons why werewolf movies are not taken seriously as a genre. People have gotten used to seeing things that look quite real, and it really strains their suspension of disbelief to go back twenty years or more in the perceived quality of the special effects.

Scott Gardener wrote:Rick Baker's American Werewolf in London would have to be the best shift of all time--it really set the tone for everything else. But, oddly enough, none of us seem particularly interested in the wolf form; it was the process of getting there that got our attention. In fact, that shift MADE the movie. If it had been done poorly, that movie might have been seen as nothing more than a Howling imitation. Further evidence that Rick Baker is God.

The reason it was so memorable is that it looked real. You felt it. It didn't look like a movie effect. In everything from Cursed to our beloved The Howling, the shifts look like visual effects. But, in AWIL, the effects look real. David Naughton's acting--the expressions and the way he portrayed the groans of pain--was an essential part of it. The visual effects, from the complex prosthetics--weeks of work to do a half-second of screen time--to the perfect editing of each angle, all added up to a transformation that was felt by the viewer.

I wish I had seen it back when the movie first came out; back when no one was used to seeing werewolf shifts that looked like anything other than obviously fake fade-ins.

Underworld has probably the best use of CGI shifting. Yes, yes, the actual final forms were done with full body suits, and yes, yes, they looked extremely un-lupine. But, the actual shifting looked believable, which is more than can be said of the CGI shifting of Cursed or D*rkwolf.

Agreed!! With the way CG animations and special effects have advanced, anything that doesn't "look real" is given a lesser mark in movie go'ers minds ( in general ). Look at Shrek! The accolades it was given. Even though it followed cartoon propotrions, it was given an edge of realism that hadn't been seen in "cartoon films" in a while. Beautifuil work.

One reason werewolf movies get teh attention they do is -because- of the shifts. BUT the reaosn for Freeborn isn't the sifts, that I also have to agree on. Its a drama film. So having 2 full hours of shuifting might be great for the TF fans, but drama it does NOT make ( as Yoda would say ;) ).

So having a good number of impressive TF in a drama movie can be USED to enhance the drama.., but I wouldn't want it to go overboard either. ;)

scott wrote:
A shapeshift by a seasoned shifter should look smooth, and should convey the emotion of being glad to get out of that human skin. Likewise, a first shift should have that sense of panic, pain, and possibly astonishment. Emotion is essential.

But, it should look real. It shouldn't look like CGI, or like puppetry, or fades, or latex prosthetics over air bladders. It should look like a person turning into a wolf.

Now that I heartily support!

Equally important is NOT having bad transformations detract from the drama. It's almost better not to show anything than to show crap. (Though others have complained about the lack of transformation scenes in movies like Dog Soldiers--which I thought looked great. Having a crappy shift scene with Captain Ryan would have undermined the great looks of the werewolves.)

I didn't really mind the lack of transformations. It was just that one table scene that made me .

Ive been saying that to myself everself i saw darkwolf," if you cant do something well, dont do it at all". ofcourse im reffering in movies.

On the other hand, you have to start somewhere. Often times, you have to make bad art before you can get to the point of making the good stuff.

I just want to see more werewolves being the polished stuff rather than the starting material.

Lupin wrote:I didn't really mind the lack of transformations. It was just that one table scene that made me .

ugh....I hated that scene.

Alrighty, the Harry Potter werewolf tf scene took about 53 seconds. Ah, most ww movies have way too short transformation scenes Transformation scenes are like the icing on the cake too

Shadow Wulf wrote:well sorry but its true, this have to be like , this does not loook right at all, the baldness and hair growth doesnt make sense, the Tf was icky(whats so icky about cursed tf), they need to make it look more wolfish, they shouldnt call those merecats werewolf, the van helsing ears doesnt look right, its too pointy, they should always have a tail for werewolf's nomatter what, anyone who dont adds a tail must die. im sorry to say but some people here are starting to sound like some nazis. if there one thing i hate is a hard a** critic.

Hmmm..... Hypocritical?.....Hmmm....
And how can anyone be wrong on something that doesn't exsist....hmmm...I must be missing something! Must of been when I bonked my head on those monkey bars yesterday.

I like transformation scenes, they look fun, yet it just is pleasing to the eye. Some people seem to make the TF, particularily the first one, the dramatic thing in the story, and then thats it. Nothing else creative and unique, the drama was the TF. I don't want this.

I also don't want to fully feel a TF, I'll admit, wacthing AWiL on some TV channel I eneded up changing the channel for about half a minute, I flinched and cringed and disliked the weirdness. I like them beleivable, I just don't want to be them.

She's got you Shadow Wulf

Fenrir wrote:She's got you Shadow Wulf

Well I hope I didn't sound mean! I have a tendacy to pin someone down but its not like I do it to feel better or just my benefit.

because we all know I'm the best of all!

(I'm so full of myself.)

outwarddoodles wrote:

Fenrir wrote:She's got you Shadow Wulf

because we all know I'm the best of all!

(I'm so full of myself.)

No your not, and best of what?

outwarddoodles wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:well sorry but its true, this have to be like , this does not loook right at all, the baldness and hair growth doesnt make sense, the Tf was icky(whats so icky about cursed tf), they need to make it look more wolfish, they shouldnt call those merecats werewolf, the van helsing ears doesnt look right, its too pointy, they should always have a tail for werewolf's nomatter what, anyone who dont adds a tail must die. im sorry to say but some people here are starting to sound like some nazis. if there one thing i hate is a hard a** critic.

Hmmm..... Hypocritical?.....Hmmm....
And how can anyone be wrong on something that doesn't exsist....hmmm...I must be missing something! Must of been when I bonked my head on those monkey bars yesterday.

I like transformation scenes, they lookto be fun, yet it just is pleasing to the eye. Some people seem to make the TF, particularily the first one, the dramatic thing in the story, and then thats it. Nothing else creative and unique, the drama was the TF. I don't want this.

I also don't want to fully feel a TF, I'll admit, wacthing AWiL on some TV channel I eneded up changing the channel for about half a minute, I flinched and cringed and disliked the weirdness. I like them beleivable, I just don't want to be them.

well i actually can understand outwarddoodle. AWIL it was kinda disturbing when hes on his back and the camera is pointing all over his body like that. And I agree, I wouldnt want to be them, and dont worry you didnt have me pinned down, I dont get pinned down like that. the way i get pinned down is you counter everysingle thing i say, then im screwed

AWIL it was kinda disturbing when hes on his back and the camera is pointing all over his body like that.

I know! Wasnt it wonderful?

Silverclaw wrote:

AWIL it was kinda disturbing when hes on his back and the camera is pointing all over his body like that.

I know! Wasnt it wonderful?

i love you too.. j/k but it was great when i saw it but that part was a bit well not that its too much per say, i cant describe it..

Personally,IN AAWWIL, I thought it was an excellent TF scene, Actually one of the best I've seen in most and the most real and there was no bladder effect either To me what made it so good is that the fact that it look so real and that's the effect I have always liked I love The Howling TF scene because it showed almost everything I wanted to see in a TF scene, however I would have liked to see the feet change as well, but it was excellent for it's time I even like the Silver Bullet TF scene because it showed the TF for the most part and it looked pretty real and I love the church TF scene alot I think the more real it looks the better and if Abrownriggs is going to use prostetics and Cgi you people may yet see another scene like that and if you can't take AAWWIL, how could you possibly take the movie Freeborn I hope Abrowriggs puts alot of TF scenes in this movie because I truly enjoy it

Silverclaw wrote:

AWIL it was kinda disturbing when hes on his back and the camera is pointing all over his body like that.

I know! Wasnt it wonderful?

*covers Silverclaw's eyes*

You're to young to see stuff like that.

*Bites Figarous paw*
I shall not be denied my tf scene!