Mirror/Shadow Issues

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:38 pm

Lupin wrote:
Lazywolf wrote:I think werewolves should cast shadows and have reflections normally like anything else.
I figure it depends on the plot line. If it makes sense within the context of the story for the werewolf to cast a different shadow (by magic or something) then I won't have any problems with it.

*nods* I figure it's a matter of wether it's physical or not. Except in the two examples I provided -- illusionary alternative forms and psychological shadows -- it wouldn't make sense for anthing to cast a shadow unlike it's natural shape.

So my rule of thumb would be that if one is different, one is not real.

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:55 am

I dont think any of that shadow/reflection stuff would happen with virus-induced werewolves. Magical setting, then, yes I could see that happening. Or an illusion like on Wolf's Rain(best tv series ever!)

In a movie/book like Freeborn, I could see it being done as a trick of the mind or something like that. A new WW is feeling really paranoid, walks by a mirror and thinks he just saw the reflection of himself in gestalt/wolf form. Then nervously look themselves over/check the mirror again.

Veruth · Post by **Veruth** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:40 pm

Silverclaw wrote:

In a movie/book like Freeborn, I could see it being done as a trick of the mind or something like that. A new WW is feeling really paranoid, walks by a mirror and thinks he just saw the reflection of himself in gestalt/wolf form. Then nervously look themselves over/check the mirror again.

Oooo, I like that, that would be be really cool to see.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:31 pm

Shaun wrote:
Silverclaw wrote:

In a movie/book like Freeborn, I could see it being done as a trick of the mind or something like that. A new WW is feeling really paranoid, walks by a mirror and thinks he just saw the reflection of himself in gestalt/wolf form. Then nervously look themselves over/check the mirror again.
Oooo, I like that, that would be be really cool to see.

*nods* Me too.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:14 pm

H'mm...

That "They Live" point got me thinking (

run away!!!)...

Story seed: Werewolves have always been among us, and are fairly common — say, 1 in 100. They came from wolves who evolved to adapt to the expansion of humanity and its activities or humans who were disillusioned with civilization and wanted to escape to the primal. Their natural default form is the gestalt. But they use their beast magic to ensorcel the humans into perceiving "just another human" and wolves into perceiving "another wolf." They "appear to transform" when the magic spell starts to slip, for whatever reason.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:44 am

Decent idea, but the problem is that it sounds a lot like Wolf's Rain.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:01 am

Terastas wrote:Decent idea, but the problem is that it sounds a lot like Wolf's Rain.

That's not such a bad thing, as long as this one has a real plot. (Something that doesn't make me wonder what the hell is going on the entire series.)

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:14 pm

Lupin wrote:
Terastas wrote:Decent idea, but the problem is that it sounds a lot like Wolf's Rain.
That's not such a bad thing, as long as this one has a real plot. (Something that doesn't make me wonder what the hell is going on the entire series.)

I know its hard to be "original," but I don't like taking ideas from other stories.

Like Terastas said, people will think of another show/movie when they see that idea in Freeborn.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 pm

Figarou wrote:Like Terastas said, people will think of another show/movie when they see that idea in Freeborn.

Well no matter what you do someone is going to think it's like something else.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:55 pm

Lupin wrote:
Figarou wrote:Like Terastas said, people will think of another show/movie when they see that idea in Freeborn.

Well no matter what you do someone is going to think it's like something else.

Ok, you're right. There is no such thing as being "original."

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:20 pm

H'mm, great minds think alike?
I haven't seen "Wolf Rain" yet.

This is because I don't have television

and nobody I know watches/records it.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:28 pm

vrikasatma wrote:H'mm, great minds think alike?
I haven't seen "Wolf Rain" yet. This is because I don't have television and nobody I know watches/records it.

Well the basic premise is that wolves have been hiding among humans by tricking them into thinking that the wolves are regular people. It follows a group of wolves as they search for paradise for some reason that wasn't really explained, while they are being chased by a bunch of people for more reasons that aren't very well explained.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:32 pm

No new stories under the sun

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:34 pm

Yeah I once read somewhere that there are only a dozen or so different types of plotlines.

celtwolf · Post by **celtwolf** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:50 pm

ok, according to superstition and major beliefs, mirrors reflect ones soul/one's true form.
so the question now is, what does a mirror actually DO?
as far as science tells us, a mirror reflects all light, so what is seen is what is light, or what is really there. same thing with shadows being an area of blocked light.
and if this is true, another question is brought up, do werewolves cause illusions to cover what they are, or do they actually change forms?
if it's an illusion caused by 'magic', than a mirror or shadow could probably show a werewolf's true form. but seeing as the general concensus around here is that werewolves physically change, then their shadows and reflections would show the same thing as their bodies do.
now, if it's chosen that mirrors are magic, then the simplest thing to say that the mirror would reflect the werewolves true form, whatever it may be.
and i realize that i haven't actually given my opinion on this. that's cause i just want to provide the information for others to use as they see fit

. my opinions matter very little right now as i am only a newbie.

~Celtwolf

P.S.: i just realized i have 23 posts!

i had NO idea i had posted so much in so little time!

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:01 pm

Nonsense, it's not how much you post that counts, it's what you post.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:05 pm

"Pay no attention to that man behind the illusion!"

If it's illusory size/transformation, then it would have to involve multiple sensory vectors: scent, sight and tactile being the least needed. A visual illusion can't tear you limb from limb, but it would be an interesting angle to have a werewolf attack victim perceive themselves as being slashed to a faretheewell but in reality appear to "have just dropped dead," intact, without a mark on them. Vis-a-vis, the damage/cause of death is entirely psychosomatic.

Going the other way, the case of a werewolf being damaged by silver. Mirrors used to be made of highly-polished metal, including silver, and are today made of a pane of glass with a coating of silver backed by another coating of opaque paint. The silver weapon could "penetrate the illusion" and attack the projecting human/wolf behind the illusion, causing damage. Was Achilles really invulnerable, or just projected this image that he was until his bluff was called by Paris?

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:08 pm

celtwolf wrote: now, if it's chosen that mirrors are magic, then the simplest thing to say that the mirror would reflect the werewolves true form, whatever it may be.

So if one werewolf thinks it's human form is the true one, then it will reflect their human form, while if another one thinks their wolf form is the true one, it will reflect that?

Would other people that look at the mirror affect that?

celtwolf wrote:and i realize that i haven't actually given my opinion on this. that's cause i just want to provide the information for others to use as they see fit . my opinions matter very little right now as i am only a newbie.

This is an internet forum, your opinions deserve as much consideration as anyone elses.

Fel · Post by **Fel** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:50 pm

Lupin wrote:

So if one werewolf thinks it's human form is the true one, then it will reflect their human form, while if another one thinks their wolf form is the true one, it will reflect that?

Would other people that look at the mirror affect that?

Most people who consider themselves weres believe that their phenotype is apart of them as a whole person, and there is no "true" form. The wolf is part of them, adn there is no seperation.

celtwolf · Post by **celtwolf** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:17 am

Lupin wrote:
celtwolf wrote: now, if it's chosen that mirrors are magic, then the simplest thing to say that the mirror would reflect the werewolves true form, whatever it may be.
So if one werewolf thinks it's human form is the true one, then it will reflect their human form, while if another one thinks their wolf form is the true one, it will reflect that?

Would other people that look at the mirror affect that?

well, i think that the mirror would reflect what they, in their heart-of-hearts, believe their true form to be. and depending on what myth you follow, it can either appear only to the werewolf looking at itself, or to everyone in the viewing range of the mirror. it really is a matter of which you choose to believe. i think for the purpose of the movie that the whole 'magic mirror' thing be left out, seeing as it can be so disputed.

and thanks for saying that. but honestly, whether or not they deserve to be listened to, i really have little sway on this forum, so i need to use what i've learned to post the info in a way that sort of implies that my opinion is the intelligent choice.....but that doesn't mean that you guys have to listen.
~Celtwolf

and welcome to the pack fel!