THE PACK Message Boards

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:29 am**

Jamie wrote:As a courtesy, if you see something here you disagree with, please don't argue against it. The person has probably already heard your arguments against that very thing, and I don't want this thread to turn into a war between many different minority opinions and the usual majority opinions.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:20 am**

Vuldari wrote:
Jamie wrote:As a courtesy, if you see something here you disagree with, please don't argue against it. The person has probably already heard your arguments against that very thing, and I don't want this thread to turn into a war between many different minority opinions and the usual majority opinions.

We all have our likes and dislikes, preferences, so on and so forth about the werewolf.

Whatever you like in a werewolf is your business. There is no sence for me to make you like what I like. But if I made a werewolf movie, I expect some of you to dislike what I did to the werewolf. You can't please everyone.

Some may say the ears are to long. Or maybe its to short. Not enough fur. To much fur. To large. To small. The list is endless. There are to many differences in what everyone likes in a werewolf.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:48 am**

Vuldari wrote:
Jamie wrote:As a courtesy, if you see something here you disagree with, please don't argue against it. The person has probably already heard your arguments against that very thing, and I don't want this thread to turn into a war between many different minority opinions and the usual majority opinions.

It's a nice thought, but a pretty unrealistic idea, considering this is a message board on Internet.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:47 am**

Heh heh, seems -I'm- the minority here in what I like after reading everyone else's opinions

I don't think I have to tell any of you that I love the uber werewolf. Height gain, incredibly strong and fast, immune to a bunch of stuff, great healing ability, the need to feed (though I don't think every werewolf should be this way. I just love horror, freak that I am), affected by full moon and silver, great big snarly fangs, able to infect others with a bite (though with me, it's a certain kind of bite that has to be intentional), etc.

Now for what I -don't- like.

Hairlessness. Wolves have fur, not stringy man-hair all over their bodies. Yuck!

The Lon Chaney werewolf. Just...no.

Mindlessness. Though this can be fun in certain situations, a werewolf that doesn't know who he/she is or retain at least somewhat of a human mind and some sort of control in werewolf form is annoying.

Only able to shift during the full moon. No fun. A werewolf should be affected by the moon, should possibly be forced to transform during the moon, but to have that be the only time you can shift? Boring.

Cursed or controlled by Satan, or by a vampire, or a demon, or blah blah blah.

Where there's werewolves, there must be vampires. What, are they cojoined twins? Just because a story or world has werewolves doesn't mean there's got to be vampires too (mutters about too many vampires)

That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure there is more, but, yeah.

So while I absolutely love the monster werewolf, I also enjoy the average Joe who simply transforms into a normal wolf, and who does so because he was born that way. No special powers or anything. It just sucks when they make it a curse (how is turning into a wolf a curse?), or there are special requirements, or he is mindless while in wolf form, etc.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:49 pm**

Goldenwolf wrote: I don't think I have to tell any of you that I love the uber werewolf. Height gain, incredibly strong and fast, immune to a bunch of stuff, great healing ability, the need to feed (though I don't think every werewolf should be this way. I just love horror, freak that I am), affected by full moon and silver, great big snarly fangs, able to infect others with a bite (though with me, it's a certain kind of bite that has to be intentional), etc.

WOOHOO!! HELL YES!!!

What I don't like:

-The idea that many people have on this forum that the gestalt form should be shorter than the human form. IMO, they should DEFINITELY have a substantial height increase.

-The whole "gestalt form is a hybrid, therefore should be in between the human and wolf forms in size". Ugh. Personally, I think the gestalt form is a third form, not merely a blending of the two. True, it has elements of both, but it's not just the midway point between human and wolf. And, even if it was some sort of hybrid, there's no guarantee that it would be in between the size human and wolf. A liger is much larger than both lion and tiger.

-The idea that werewolves shouldn't gain muscle mass. Frankly, I think it'd be ridiculous if they didn't. Werewolves should be substantially stronger than humans, IMO, and their bodies should reflect that.

-Breasts. Bleh. I'm becoming used to the idea, but I certainly don't like it.

-Hairlessness. EWEWEWEWEWEEEWWWWWWW.........They should be totally furry.

Yeah, that covers it pretty well.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:54 pm**

YES!! In your face all of you others that thinks there should never be any uber werewolf

We got the popular vote!!!! J/k

serously I am.......Why are you looking at my like that!?! STOP IT!!!

Anyway I love werewolfs to be covered in fur for it makes it look more natural and native but I really dont mind having hairless or little hair ones. Thas just me I go both ways.

WHAT I HATE:
I hate I hate I hate the idea of vampires controlling werewolfs or even TF into wolves!!! Your a bat and you should stay that way!! I like for a werewolf to look demonic, but i dont want a story saying they arose from the depths of hell and in the name of the lord Ill shall vanquish them!! I dont want crosses getting inolved like in project metal beast. I dont minds silver that much but I feel werewolfs are killed a little too easily by it. And the ones that can be killed by any bullets shouldnt go out of commison by one 2 lousy placed shots.

What I like: Anything else really. I also like what Project Metal Beast looked like, it was awsome!! A werewolf covered in a metalic skin...NEATO!!!

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:04 pm**

Just to clarify my statements above, I'm aware that, combining everyone's opinions on this site, my opinions may not be the minority. However, it's kind of hard to guage, since the ones who disagree with me generally make the most noise.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:26 pm**

Hmm, other likes and dislikes, and these are my own personal thoughts about the werewolf mythology. I take a more logical/rational approach to what they should be, as how they'd be in reality. yep, i too consider myself a miniscule minority. :punishment:

To me a werewolf is not just human but also wolf. Wolves in general aren't necessarily vicious. They live to hunt, if a werewolf is hungry, he'll feed on what's available to him. Since they're part human, their morals will interfere with them from just eating anything that moves. They can survive on meat, and they know this [they'd visit it in human form, obviously]. There's nothing like a local butcher shop to appease their hunger. The man-eating myth is only added as drama, at least that's my opinion. [of course, if there's a particular human they want to eat, who are we to argue?]

Of course they should have fur, maybe not long thick coats. Their fur should depend on the region they live in. Just like a wolf. Fleas and other parasites are a matter to consider. An Alaskan timber wolf may be a bit different from a mexican wolf, the same would apply to the native werewolves, I imagine.

A tail is part of the wolf anatomy, so naturally a werewolf shouldl have one.

Which brings me to the way wolves express their emotions. The tail wags, raised hackles, flat ears, etc. All the body posture of a wolf means something, so naturally I believe a werewolf would follow the same emotions, but through a human perspective. If a werewolf is happy, he'll wag his tail, much to the odd looks he might get.

As I mentioned earlier, wolves dont have "superhuman" strength. The only super human thing about them, of course, are their natural senses. Humans have better taste than any other animal, according to my research. Wolf sight is restricted to only to greys, but also possible awareness to yellow and red. Their smell and hearing is far beyond a humans. In relation to werewolves, their hearing and smell will be far greater than their human form. Their taste, would be tend closer to being human, they would probably have color vision as well. I'd consider those being the dominating factors upon change, taking the best from both aspects: human and wolf. You can call it a form of binary evolution, if you will.

Their size has to be large enough to compensate for the differences between human and wolf. Upright posture to walk as a human would, but also the leg structure of a quadraped which would allow them to move on all four of their limbs if they chose to.

THe silver vulnerability, I honestly don't know where that came from, I'm pretty sure it was made up by holiwood back in the old day with talks of silver bullets and such. Wolf's aren't affected by silver [unless they react to the nickel in it as some humans do]

The moon shifting. As charming as it sounds, it just doesn't make any rational since. The only reason a moon-induced shift could occur is because of all the myths on full moon being encoded in our legends and history for millenia. Psychologically, a shift would only occur because of it being talked about so often.

Regeneration is just another plot devise, IMO. Yes, I use it in my stories, too. Realistically speaking, it's just nonsense. A dislike, as it were.

Lycanthropia being a "disease". That's just too convenient. Again, i feel it's another plot devise. [granted, i use this too in my stories.]

How many movies have portrayed lyccanthropia as a curse? Many. How many of YOU would consider it a curse? No one, I'm sure . . . that's my rational view on that. So another dislike, lycanthropia being a "curse" or "disease". [That doesn't mean one may not FEEL "cursed", but very few, I bet]

The werewolf/vampire thing. Unfortunately I have yet to "rationalize" the vampire myth. But in relation to werewolves . . . it's just too overused. Don't expect vampires in my stories.

Werewolf teeth. Since the head is pretty much wolf, why not the teeth also. There shouldn't be extra-long stilleto fangs. An annoyance used to show the "vicious" aspect in werewolf movies . . . same thing with the claws. [Granted, I do use the claws at least . . . but only in the effect of making them appear ferocious, even if they aren't.]

The invulnerability is also nonsense, I'll link that with silver. A silver bullet is just about as deadly to a human as it would be to a werewolf, common sense. There's no reason why mundane items can't hurt a werewolf. [I know, I know, I DO use this element in my stories]

The mindlessness, another dislike of my own. Wolves aren't mindless beasts, they have their own cunning and tactics when hunting. They don't go on mindless hunting sprees. Now add that to human intelligence. Human intelligence will over play that, again taking the best from one aspect and enhancing the creature as a whole.

Then here's another thing which annoys me to no end, that no one has brought up, What about other types of lycanthropes. Were-bears, were-tigers, etc. Why is it ALWAYS wolves?

Anyways, that's my views.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:46 pm**

Full moons and silver bullets:

You'll be glad to know that neither of those are important in my storyline, though people don't always know that right away. I don't mind either of these elements, but since they aren't part of classic lore so much as contemporary, I welcome seeing their omissions at times.

Note that almost no one complains about the contageous bite concept, even though it too is contemporary, and perhaps a spill-over from vampire mythos. There are stories where it's purely hereditary, and that the bite of a werewolf does not spread it. (Even the game Werewolf: the Apocalypse worked on this premise, as did Teen Wolf.) I'm not complaining about it either, mind you; I'm just noticing that no one else is.

More on the "virus" virus:

Back in 1987, I thought I was being pretty clever, coming up with the idea of lycanthropy as a virus. But, in retrospect, I now realize I would have been far more clever to have come up with something other than a virus. What we have in the case of the "lycanthrope virus" concept is one of concurrent invention--just as many people find themselves racing to their country's patent office when they all invent the same thing at the same time. Marconi wasn't the only inventor of the lightbulb, and the Wright brothers weren't the only ones designing the first airplane.

The idea of a virus is a simple and eloquent one. It provides an explanation that squares well with the notion of a contageous bite and accounts for the introduction of information into one's body complex enough and well enough distributed to make shapeshifting possible. All other readily available explanations require a more complex restructuring of the underlying reality of the story setting, resorting either to magic or complex extrapolations about the world's physics. But the virus explanation is so simple and believably plausible that many of us can believe it happening in the real world. Even though we do not actually expect to see werewolves, an explanation that squares well with our science lowers the suspension of disbelief, and makes the story feel more possible, as if it could happen to us.

I came up with the idea on my own, but I was not alone in so doing. Around 1993, in the primordial soup days of the therianthropy movement, I and several other people on alt.horror.werewolves discussed the idea. If I had an inflated sense of my own importance, I might very well feel tempted to hold myself responsible for propagating the idea through the therian community. But, as arrogant as I am, I am also intelligent enough to know that the "lycanthrope virus" concept is so easy to invent that it cannot be credited to any single inventor, and likely had hundreds or thousands of inventors.

None-the-less, the idea has finally been popularized in mainstream media. Both Underworld and the Ginger Snaps movies reference it. Note that movies prior to 2000 almost never mention it. This suggests that werewolf fandom already has had some pre-Freeborn influence, even if not in the design of werewolves. However, this idea can also be dismissed by the above suggestion that the virus notion is a simple and easy one to invent, and thus likely once again developed spontaneously. It could be that the new movies were simply the first that focused enough on werewolf background for its viral origins even to be an issue.

What I do find interesting is the simultaneous realization by many that a lycanthrope "virus" could not be a simple virus per se, so much as a virus-like entity. I am a trained biologist and a physician, so the molecular biology of viruses is something that I should know about. However, I am impressed by how many other people in other fields realize that an ordinary virus, consisting of a protein shell and a set of simple DNA strands, could not possibly carry enough information to make a human turn into a wolf. I applaud the intelligence of so many of you who independently came to the same realization. (Apokryltaros, given your own intense biology background, it's not surprising that you had some of the best to say on the matter.)

Forgive me, but I for the time being am going to continue using the virus explanation, as it is quite heavily grandfathered into my storyline, and because of its Occam's Razor factor--it's a simple thing that can explain a lot all at once.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:13 pm**

MidniteWolf wrote:As I mentioned earlier, wolves dont have "superhuman" strength. The only super human thing about them, of course, are their natural senses. Humans have better taste than any other animal, according to my research. Wolf sight is restricted to only to greys, but also possible awareness to yellow and red.

Just a slight correction: their vision is actually restricted to blues and yellows. They lack the proper cone to distinguish red and green.

Posted: **Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:58 am**

Werewolves that have almost fully human bodies with wolf heads planted on... Just looks uninspiring to me.

I prefer quadruped werewolves, I seem to be a serious minority there

I like cyclical transformations. Not necessarily tied to the moon, but the control, if present at all, is more fun when it is fleeting. Maybe 'control' only present in form of delaying or speeding up transformation, but never complete.

I like seeing different designs of werewolves. Mix of various degrees of human an wolf features. Again, absolute favourite are quadrupeds.

Immortality, hey, if I ever become a werewolf, I would like to be an immortal one, even if it makes no sense

Posted: **Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:16 pm**

Shadow Wulf wrote:YES!! In your face all of you others that thinks there should never be any uber werewolf

I never said "never".
(oops...I just did. Okay...but I'll never say it again.)
(Oops...I mean...DAMNIT!...)

I like to see some of those sometimes...but I just like to see MORE of other kinds.

Posted: **Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:11 pm**

Me too Vuldari , I would LOVE to see a werewolf like godenwolfs paintings

Posted: **Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:08 pm**

Another one that I forgot.

-The idea that werewolves should have some sort of sign that they are werewolves in human form, such as a bushy unibrow, or bushy eyebrows period. If there is going to be some sort of sign that the person is a werewolf when they are in human form, at least let it be something that isn't aesthetically unappealing.

Posted: **Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:07 pm**

Excelsia wrote:Another one that I forgot.

-The idea that werewolves should have some sort of sign that they are werewolves in human form, such as a bushy unibrow, or bushy eyebrows period. If there is going to be some sort of sign that the person is a werewolf when they are in human form, at least let it be something that isn't aesthetically unappealing.

Already been discussed.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... ight=signs

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:02 am**

Figarou wrote:
Excelsia wrote:Another one that I forgot.

-The idea that werewolves should have some sort of sign that they are werewolves in human form, such as a bushy unibrow, or bushy eyebrows period. If there is going to be some sort of sign that the person is a werewolf when they are in human form, at least let it be something that isn't aesthetically unappealing.

Already been discussed.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... ight=signs

Lol I know. I was referring to the ideas and opinions present on the forum, not in the general world.

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:32 pm**

Vuldari wrote:Minority pet peeves?
(These may not all be "minority" peeves, but they are my peeves none the less.)

-I LIKE the classic "wolfman" style werewolf. I think the character/creature still has potential.

I actually like this kind too, even though most don't seem to. As long as it is done by a reasonable makeup artist with true artistic inspiration, the "wolfman" look can be pretty cool, and allows for story scenarios that a fuller transformation would not (for example, in the movie "Wolf", there was an essential plot device that relied on the fact that werewolves could easily be mistaken for humans from a distance or at night. For gestalt forms that are about half wolf, the only creature it can really be mistaken for is a bear, or maybe, a wolf walking on its hind legs).

Vuldari wrote:

-I am not totally opposed to werewolves being overcome by predetory instincts when transformed (as long as they actually act like "predators" hunting to survive, and not just mindless killers), but I do hate the whole "amnesia" thing. If they DO become killers while in the transformed state, I prefer that they remember being the creature and choosing to attack their prey. ...and remember liking it, even if they are disgusted by it afterwords.

Amnesia always makes me feel like the person isn't really a werewolf, because, if all you experience is waking up in strange places, then you could have a sleepwalking disorder for all you know. For example, what if a person never remembered having sex? That person would share many characteristics with a true virgin no matter how many times they did it. Even if they had obvious side effects, such as getting pregnant, they still wouldn't know what sex was like.

Vuldari wrote:
-Werewolf Sex. True as it may be that the will to breed is one of the strongest animal instincts, I have no desire whatsoever to watch, or read about horney werewolves. ...ever.

I'm not really into the sex part either. I do prefer good-looking werewolves, but I don't like the kind who are driven by a sex urge twice as strong as the horniest 16-year-old male in the world. After all, most animals spend most of their lives abstinant. I don't see how sex once a year in largely monogamous wolves is seen to translate into werewolves who want to do it five times a day with everyone.

Vuldari wrote: I think it might even be interesting if a werewolf could make someone else one of them simply by "seducing" them, or fooling them into acting or thinking like one and thus falling under the spell. What if one could start to become a werewolf just by living in the presence of one who is trying to convert you, with or without your knowlage? This scenario could not even be explored if one sticks only to the rules of biological contact and viral nature. Such supernatural scenarios could also allow for "half-werewolves" (as discussed in another thread) where someone is only partially converted, and so only has SOME lycanthropic qualities and/or abilities.

This was done in the novel "Animals" by John Skipp and Craig Specter. You got someone to start acting like a werewolf, and pretty soon they'd become one for real. Unfortunately, it involved a lot of sex, but one of the more sane werewolves hinted that there were ways to do it without sex at all.

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:38 pm**

Vuldari wrote:
Jamie wrote:As a courtesy, if you see something here you disagree with, please don't argue against it. The person has probably already heard your arguments against that very thing, and I don't want this thread to turn into a war between many different minority opinions and the usual majority opinions.

Sorry if I offended anyone with that. What I meant was that we've got plenty of threads already devoted to majority pet peeves, either in general or specificly, and I was trying to avoid topic duplication.

I think that most of us (except the newest members of the last month or two) already know what the majority-opinion pet peeves are, and I know this board is very strict about topic duplication, so I was trying to gently flush out some of the less popular opinions whilst protecting the board in general from redundantcy.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:38 am**

Jamie wrote:
Vuldari wrote:
Jamie wrote:As a courtesy, if you see something here you disagree with, please don't argue against it. The person has probably already heard your arguments against that very thing, and I don't want this thread to turn into a war between many different minority opinions and the usual majority opinions.
Sorry if I offended anyone with that. What I meant was that we've got plenty of threads already devoted to majority pet peeves, either in general or specificly, and I was trying to avoid topic duplication.

I think that most of us (except the newest members of the last month or two) already know what the majority-opinion pet peeves are, and I know this board is very strict about topic duplication, so I was trying to gently flush out some of the less popular opinions whilst protecting the board in general from redundantcy.

I quoted and highlighted that becasue I was noticing that alot of people were arguing against some of the opinions of others, even though you had stated at the very beginning that the purpose of this thread was to share ones personal opinions that they KNOW most others here disagree with.

I felt it was appropriate to reiterate that. I was not instulted by that...I though it was a good idea.

After all...who would want to share thier minority opinion if they thought it would immediately by discredited by the next person?

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:30 pm**

I find uberwolves irritating...unless they're either demonic or magical in nature. Then I have no problems with it. It may not be what I'd prefer, but variety is good. Putting an uberwolf in a movie that's trying to be realistic, however, is just plain rediculous.

I don't like bodybuilder physiques on werewolves. It just plain looks ugly to me. Besides, if the top is too developed for their legs to support then all that muscle is rendered completely useless because they'll fall over if they try and punch/claw someone.

Werewolf: Grr! I ahm Ahnold wulf! *tries to punch the WW Hunter and falls flat on his face*
Hunter: Moron.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:29 pm**

Even if a werewolf has bodybuilder muscles doesnt make him as imobile as you think. Alot of bodybuilders has pretty good reflexes and are farely quick on thier feet. you just have to strecth alot. A was told this from a bodybuilder just so you know. And they have good balance.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:03 pm**

Do you always go by what people tell you like a mindless little lemming? Some people will say anything just to save face or to make themselves sound better. Unless you saw this guy running around and demonstrating how he "has good balance and is quick on his feet", then that statement isn't worth s*** to me.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:06 pm**

Reilune wrote:Do you always go by what people tell you like a mindless little lemming? Some people will say anything just to save face or to make themselves sound better.

Using that logic, I shouldn't listen to anything you say unless I see it for myself.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:18 pm**

Lupin wrote:
Reilune wrote:Do you always go by what people tell you like a mindless little lemming? Some people will say anything just to save face or to make themselves sound better.
Using that logic, I shouldn't listen to anything you say unless I see it for myself.

Indeed. I'd prefer it if people actually used their brains and thought for themselves instead of just going along with the crowd. If someone doesn't like being labeled a sheep then they shouldn't act like one.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:17 pm**

Things I dont like.....
-Obvious things like-Mindless killers, no fur/greasy patches of hair, and no tails.
-Can only shift on the full moon. How boring...
-Body Builder muscles. I like them to look more...normal. It all depends on what they are like in human form.
-Super abilities like, crazy strong and fast. Jumping to insane heights, healing super fast like X-Men's Wolverine, and regrowing entire limbs like its nothing.

-Only thing that can really hurt or kill them is silver.
-Amnesia of being in ww form.
-Becoming a werewolf=being a sex maniac.
-Shifting that last less than a minute. Changing ones entire body should take a bit more time than that.

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