Wolves of Idaho in Danger

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:46 am

Scott Gardener wrote:Suddenly, the world makes sense...

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:57 am

Where did that quote came from?

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:20 pm

I did some more research and according to sources elk not all dead at all in fact there are many!! More Lies to Murder an innocent creature!!!

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles ... 60-elk.txt

An this here is just sad, it wasn't their fault, they didn't know better

http://www.wetmountaintribune.com/home.asp?i=308&p=2

Ink · Post by **Ink** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:10 pm

SabreTheJokerWolfFool wrote:I did some more research and according to sources elk not all dead at all in fact there are many!! More Lies to Murder an innocent creature!!!

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles ... 60-elk.txt

An this here is just sad, it wasn't their fault, they didn't know better

http://www.wetmountaintribune.com/home.asp?i=308&p=2

Before I take to heart any of the stuff you've written on the subject or pointed out -

Stop using emotion to fret this - yes, it's sad. So is the rest of life.

Wolves aren't innocent nor are they tainted. They're wolves. This isn't the disney channel. Save animal personification for 8 year olds.

If there is a real problem, tell me who you've talked to. I mean, who you've had on the phone and really talked to this about - have you had a discussion with someone heading up the DEC research on wolves? I'm tired of URL's - if I cared all that much I would probably get on the phone about this with someone important willing to discuss this. Logical research sense is not a few news-clippings mis-associated because it presents your arguement better.

If you want to present a valid arguement, do so - just not with frills of emotion and human whining.

I mean, did you do the geographic mapping basing the locale and population of the elk herds and wolf packs yet? And if so, again, who'd you talk to that's an expert on this to help you draw yourself to a utilizable hypothesis? To make true alignment of articles you need behavior specialists on elk and wolves, and to get in touch with wildlife departments and agencies. All respective parts could help analyse data regarding location, accessability of food sources for both animals, the intermingling assocation, the practicality of utilization of the elk for the wolves. Etc-etc... Primary Research is collecting data, thesis and theories apply them - you cannot make a conclusion based on two articles. You'd have a lot of footwork to cover.

Even after all that true and vital conclusions might be far off in the distance. But if you start doing something like that it'd be more helpful, and honestly more welcomed than a Googling expert making a seemingly sound assuption about a census report that's validity is only as good as who's got the numbers and how they're using them.

Natural Science and Environmental Problems - a 100 level course for Environmental Study Majors (Yeah, I am one) will let you know the woes of census and statistical data. Any amateur scientist can point that one out. You'd be shot down in seconds in a scientific community.

Patch up your argument and do some real footwork and then you might have a real case prepped for headlines.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:08 am

First off Ink why do you find it so neccesary to come back at me like that? Have I ever been mean to you or really anyone on this board? I am only expressing my opinions and you go off on me? Why?

I came to this forum for certain reasons, not to be insulted because of my opinions and and how I feel about thing.. *sighs* I wonder now if I should have just left here and never came back if people are gooing to get on me for such things..

I never hurt anyone but, people are ready to jump at me and insult me becuase of what I believe. What right do you have to say such things to me and try to make me look like a bad person when I have never been rude to you?

If you don't like my posts and find them as an insult, just don't read them and then you won't be offened. On every occassion I've posted anything about my feelings(and one of them was a bit rude in which I did apologise to everyone) I got chewed up and spit out...

I have done my best to be a friend to everyone on here and it seem people are trying to upset me and make me leave, maybe I should grant your wish and leave..

I have made some friends on here and I don't want to leave here because I don't want to lose track of them, but I just don't know..

Anyways I'll leave this thread alone since it boths folks so..

Shadowalker · Post by **Shadowalker** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:32 am

Im not a scientist, but im wondering a few things..

1. what right do we have to play god and kill off animals?
2. why do we HAVE to kill them off? i mean..wolves have been around just as long as humans, and their endangered..so..why kill more of them?
3. Isnt there a natural balence thing? i mean your talking about elk..shouldnt the wolves have a natural balence with their ecosystem like everything else?

well..except for humans that is..

oh and uhmm take a chill pill, didnt your mother ever teach you if you had nothing nice to say dont say anything at all?

Set · Post by **Set** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:49 am

Having a bad day Ink? Even I thought that was harsh.

Bay-of-sorrows · Post by **Bay-of-sorrows** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:25 am

wow... Ink...i have half a mind to call you a b****... but i dont think your deserving of the title in all honesty, someone has expressed their concern and you come back at them like a tone of bricks! and about the emoticons, big f*** woop (im probably gonna be taken off the forums for this but...i rarely post anyway... i have somewhat of a life outside the internet) if the emoticons werent meant to be used than they would not be sitting off to the side for you to use... if your looking for someone to explode on, go to your parents like any other angsty little teenager.

Ink · Post by **Ink** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:04 am

When and where in that commentary did I outline that I was attacking anyone?

I asked for someone to give some actual hardcore data which means people have to do something.

This has nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with how you all feel or how I feel. It's supposed to be about the wolf so make it about the wolf. The wolf, not human emotion, is the part of this that plays the basis of contextual data - if it were human emotion I'd care a little more about that.

This isn't about opinions but the necessity of argument. If you care so much then you would rationalize where I'm coming from. If you attempt to be at all useful to the wolf, which I would think would be your attempt, you'd gear yourself to be a thoughtful, calm and full of bustling agrumentative potential. Unbiased, unemotional thesis reports make more headway and then you can take it to a Natural History level in which we can begin to bring in allowed emotion to understand the wonder of the wolf.

I see a lot of whining and scanty highschool style reporting. If you want to be taken seriously, unlike every other angsty pro-emotional liberal, there was a good way to do it. But you'll not get anywhere crying the blues.

People don't spend their lives researching these animals for you to absolve the wonder into them with an "Awwww... so cute" or "So innocent!".

These aren't humans, stop putting human and cultural imaging on them. The same goes for guilting humanity for having a culture the wolves must adapt around - that's the fact of life. If you want to DO something for the wolf you need to factor in these things.

I'm talking about making an argument FOR the wolf, not an opinion.

If you all feel the urge to call me a b**** I'm pretty sure that I'm not the angsty teenager in this crowd. If all you can muster is, "Wow that was mean!" All of you people are in for a rude awakening at what other people can deliver.

This was me pointing out where the err in man stems too far, this is why people go, "Yes, another fanatic..." The general voting public does not rally around extremists - they live middle to low-class lifestyles eeking out a living on society.

If you want to save the wolf you have to appeal to the everyday person with something a little more tangible than a 10th grade quarrel for research - which almost always ends bad.

If you all have to take the stance that I threw a brick through the window... Expect hell-spawn and fury when you enter the real world.

I pale in comparison to the woeful yet surpressing power of aged researchers, culture brokers and the rudely insane yet perplexingly over disaffected public.

And, for the record, I don't care if you're out to save the wolf - this was my spur in your side to do something more fruitful. I'm surely not damning your attempts at validating the wolf's right to live amongst humans.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:36 am

That' may be Ink, but you were down right rude about it. Try being nice for a change, because now you have people jumping at you and I don't fancy you like it much..

You need to chill out Ink, if you have your opinions that all good and well, but please don't direspect someone who's never done a thing to you. If you want to explain things, be more adult about it instead of going off on me like a child.

You have much to explain and use alot of these big words to give us your input, but your being very immature about it which doesn't help your cause much..

Listen...I don't know if you've had a bad day, week,year, or whatever, don't lash out at me or anyone because of it. Your hardly on this forum and when you do come back you all ready to pounce someone..

Vent else where, nobody wants trouble, I sure don't, I never do..Please again if this bothers you so much don't read it..

It seems to me as your looking to pick a fight with someone. You did this to me on another thread about wolves.. What the heck did I ever do to you to get such treatment?

It seems that I am a threat or something to you which I don't see why... If you can tell me where I went wrong, I will try to fix it, but you've told me nothing to indicate my wrong...

Well, like I said..try to be more polite and grown up about this...

Ink · Post by **Ink** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:46 am

Why did you think my post was immature?

I sincerely outlined what I thought was wrong with it and how to go about asking the right questions. It wasn't a matter of, "You're stupid" it was a matter of "This is bad, reason why, and end note." Nothing rude about it.

Blatant, yes, but I wasn't going for four stars in fluff there.

This is about the wolf, after all. I don't understand how all of you, so noble and self righteous take this to some other level right away from the wolf to who you think is being rude to who.

Besides people blatantly being intimidated by me for whatever reasons - I never said I didn't support the wolf's survival. Nor was I talking about Emoticons, I was talking about EMOTIONS...

Yes, fine, I've been called a b**** and rude in the last few posts - ultimately you can shake your finger at me and call me a monkey's uncle and do a dance while you're at it. This is a message board, if that's as low as it has to get you shouldn't be talking to me.

If you all were so self-sacrificing and caring you'd do something that would help the creature you so heatedly love. Like listen to why I asked those questions, for once.

If you are going to manifest a representable argument then do so. I asked you - can you do that? Are you willing to do that? Why when I find short-falls do you instantly become defensive rather than utilize what I have to say?

I was asking legitimate questions on the subject, not "A-ha! You can't answer me!" questions!

And tell me why are you attempting to wrap the wolf in a cultural context? The same way putting the wolf in an innocent light can be bad as putting them in the light of "The Big Bad Wolf"... The wolf is a wolf and a human is a human - aligning us beyond anything but carbon based organisms is a cultural cliche.

This is about presenting an unbiased to HELP THE WOLF. Not help ourselves feel better.

If you don't realize controversy surrounds this, the sheer expertise it takes to do actual legitimate research, then this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Me coming here to illustrate what I have to say, however often I want, is not pertinant data - in fact, why does that matter so much? The only thing immature about the situation ends up being people who mis-read or instantly take offense when someone asks them how much work they've actually done on the subject material it seems. None of us here are wolf experts so who did you talk to, not what article did you pull up to front your fight... Write a paper on it, talk to people, do interviews or find someone who's done that.

This is a heated issue. Deal with that if you've got intentions prepped to go anywhere with you opinion - which I support, I just don't particularly like how you handle it - hence me making an example of things.

And I finalize my deliberation: If you actually read what I had to say, in not such a mean-Waspy-b**** mental voice, slow and easy, you'd understand that.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:56 pm

To quote Ron White-
Ink, "Next time you have a thought......let it go."

There is no reason for you to jump up and attack Sabre. She was simply alerting us all to in issue that we should be aware of. What do you want her to do? Dedicate her life to living with wolves before she dares make a post?
It's not a big deal.

Ink · Post by **Ink** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:04 pm

PariahPoet wrote:To quote Ron White-
Ink, "Next time you have a thought......let it go."

There is no reason for you to jump up and attack Sabre. She was simply alerting us all to in issue that we should be aware of. What do you want her to do? Dedicate her life to living with wolves before she dares make a post?
It's not a big deal.

Meh, Ron White's good at giving advice but never taking it.

There was no attacking. I promise, I'm not that huge of an asshole. I simply asked for it to be presented as data, not conclusive evidence. Read it, it says it I swear!

And I really am not against the usage of emoticons... I mean, read it! I really outlined it quite well... I am not the evil swamp beast...

Well, maybe I am...