What? No what I'm saying is that by sending those labor jobs to foreign countries, it just made this list jobs smaller for those who don't have an education.Fenrir wrote:um you make it sound like were sending all our grocery stores to India
Save the Wolves!
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Shadow Wulf
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Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. - Thomas Jefferson
Fine you know why there might not be enough jobs, because the illegals are taking them, not just outsourcing illegals and what makes it worse is there so stuborn and won't learn ENLGISH!
Sorry that made me angry. But it's not just outsourcing most of the jobs lost are to Mexicans and Cubans illigally crossing the border.
Sorry that made me angry. But it's not just outsourcing most of the jobs lost are to Mexicans and Cubans illigally crossing the border.
"Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere et cul illi pueri dicerent 'Sibylla Ti cupisne' respondebat illa 'Cupio mortere'."
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Shadow Wulf
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That is true, very true. And I agree with what you say, my lousy mother has lived here in America for god knows how long and she still hasn't learned decent english cause she doesn't want to.Fenrir wrote:Fine you know why there might not be enough jobs, because the illegals are taking them, not just outsourcing illegals and what makes it worse is there so stuborn and won't learn ENLGISH!
Sorry that made me angry. But it's not just outsourcing most of the jobs lost are to Mexicans and Cubans illigally crossing the border.
Also, isn't ironic that we need the illegal mexicans to get out and yet at the same time we need them to stay.
Hispanics are naturaly lazy when it comes to learning new languages unless their still young. Did you know that the number of people in America that speaks english is the same amount or more of the chinese that can speak english in China.
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. - Thomas Jefferson
Ya but India is the third most English speaking country in the world after the US and the UK.
Though the asains are usually willing to learn English, in fact the lady who I take Japanese from loves to learn the twists and turns of it though she has only lived her for a few years.
Though the asains are usually willing to learn English, in fact the lady who I take Japanese from loves to learn the twists and turns of it though she has only lived her for a few years.
"Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere et cul illi pueri dicerent 'Sibylla Ti cupisne' respondebat illa 'Cupio mortere'."
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Scott Gardener
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Forgive me for contributing to this divergence of topic; I'll steer us back momentarily.
I think it's more the fact that it's hard for anyone to learn a new language; it's easier as a child and harder the older you get.
I don't mean to profile races, so forgive me, but Hispanics are the LEAST lazy people as a culture I know in America. When Cathey and I needed to hire people to work on our house or yard, the people who consistantly showed up and did the work were Hispanic. Everyone else dawdled, didn't finish the job, didn't start the job, left in the middle, skimped on quality, you name it. It was the Hispanic hired services who took pride in their work and consistantly delivered top notch service. No, they're not lazy by any stretch of the imagination.
I do think that it's decidedly impractical to convert the U.S. into an officially bilingual country. Since English is ubiquitous here in my country, I do think that, as difficult as it may be to learn a language, it's worthwhile, and should be both required and made possible of our citizens. Our education system desperately needs an overhaul and better funding, and teaching English to even those of us who speak only English hasn't been as good as it should be. In a better America, we'd teach English to all our citizens and to all going through the naturalization process.
Attempts have been made to make English a national language, but, though the arguments were sound by those offering it, the motives of those making the proposal have generally been suspect. It's hard to see such a proposal as not racist when it comes from, say, a senator who used to be a Grand Dragon in the KKK. That kind of background generally undermines credibility somewhat when one tries to claim that a proposal that happens to alienate our Mexican neighbors isn't intended to be a racist platform!
My proposal on the immigration debate, were I in Congress at work on drafting legislation, would be something to this effect:
1. Amnesty from any past taxes or illegal presence in the U.S., because the current system is so screwed up that it's best just to call it even.
2. Strict enforcement of legal versus illegal immigration after an announced advance notice period--say, announce now that you have until January 1, 2007 to either start the naturalization process to be here legally, get a passport and be a visitor, or leave. Until then, those already here should be encouraged to stop hiding and become legal, or be ready for a much stricter standard.
3. Creation of naturalization centers with classes in American history, the English language, and basic knowledge one should have about living in the United States, such as how to file income tax, drive a car, and so forth. This process should allow for GEDs, applications to trade schools, and applications to enroll in universities. Yes, this is expensive to impliment, but, it also creates a lot of jobs.
In short, we should make it easier to be here legally, but harder to be here illegally. I sincerely doubt that very many will disagree with this fundamental premise.
Now, back to the save the wolf rant, already in progress...
-----
...and as I was saying, it is human arrogance that allows this kind of atrocity to happen! What makes the wolf have any less a right to exist than a human being? The short-sighted person might answer that the difference is inherant definition of species, and that humans have the right to declare their own species more important than any other.
But, where ethics are concerned, hypothetical and real are interchangable. Something doesn't become any less ethical or more ethical if it cannot happen. Part of the beauty of the science fiction genre is its ability to raise hypothetical ethical questions based on things that cannot happen today. Often, these imaginary issues have indeed become real ones as our real technology has caught up with what was once imaginary. The abortion debate, do not recusscitate orders, and music piracy over the Internet are all examples of ethics debates that went from hypothetical to real. And it is not inconceivable at all that today's science fiction ethics issues will some day become real--transhumanist identity, AI rights, and the like.
And, therefore, I suggest to you as my novel character Scott Gardener would, in coming forward as a lycanthrope, having revealed one's self to the world as a being that is at once both human and wolf, to say no, it is not enough to be human to claim superiority of rights. I can speak for the wolves, to say that we, too, have the right to exist, to find food and sustainance as you do, to declare our territories and defend them, and to perpetuate our species as a citizen of the Earth. The seperation between humans and wolves beyond biology is an arbitrary one, but if one must insist on attributing it to divine providence, then I present myself, as many of your Fundamentalist religious leaders have already suggested, as evidence that that divinity can just as easily take down that seperation.
(Footnote: the above may still carry some merit, since, even though I'm not really a shape-shifting werewolf organizing a civil rights movement in the 2010s, I am a spiritual therianthrope.)
I think it's more the fact that it's hard for anyone to learn a new language; it's easier as a child and harder the older you get.
I don't mean to profile races, so forgive me, but Hispanics are the LEAST lazy people as a culture I know in America. When Cathey and I needed to hire people to work on our house or yard, the people who consistantly showed up and did the work were Hispanic. Everyone else dawdled, didn't finish the job, didn't start the job, left in the middle, skimped on quality, you name it. It was the Hispanic hired services who took pride in their work and consistantly delivered top notch service. No, they're not lazy by any stretch of the imagination.
I do think that it's decidedly impractical to convert the U.S. into an officially bilingual country. Since English is ubiquitous here in my country, I do think that, as difficult as it may be to learn a language, it's worthwhile, and should be both required and made possible of our citizens. Our education system desperately needs an overhaul and better funding, and teaching English to even those of us who speak only English hasn't been as good as it should be. In a better America, we'd teach English to all our citizens and to all going through the naturalization process.
Attempts have been made to make English a national language, but, though the arguments were sound by those offering it, the motives of those making the proposal have generally been suspect. It's hard to see such a proposal as not racist when it comes from, say, a senator who used to be a Grand Dragon in the KKK. That kind of background generally undermines credibility somewhat when one tries to claim that a proposal that happens to alienate our Mexican neighbors isn't intended to be a racist platform!
My proposal on the immigration debate, were I in Congress at work on drafting legislation, would be something to this effect:
1. Amnesty from any past taxes or illegal presence in the U.S., because the current system is so screwed up that it's best just to call it even.
2. Strict enforcement of legal versus illegal immigration after an announced advance notice period--say, announce now that you have until January 1, 2007 to either start the naturalization process to be here legally, get a passport and be a visitor, or leave. Until then, those already here should be encouraged to stop hiding and become legal, or be ready for a much stricter standard.
3. Creation of naturalization centers with classes in American history, the English language, and basic knowledge one should have about living in the United States, such as how to file income tax, drive a car, and so forth. This process should allow for GEDs, applications to trade schools, and applications to enroll in universities. Yes, this is expensive to impliment, but, it also creates a lot of jobs.
In short, we should make it easier to be here legally, but harder to be here illegally. I sincerely doubt that very many will disagree with this fundamental premise.
Now, back to the save the wolf rant, already in progress...
-----
...and as I was saying, it is human arrogance that allows this kind of atrocity to happen! What makes the wolf have any less a right to exist than a human being? The short-sighted person might answer that the difference is inherant definition of species, and that humans have the right to declare their own species more important than any other.
But, where ethics are concerned, hypothetical and real are interchangable. Something doesn't become any less ethical or more ethical if it cannot happen. Part of the beauty of the science fiction genre is its ability to raise hypothetical ethical questions based on things that cannot happen today. Often, these imaginary issues have indeed become real ones as our real technology has caught up with what was once imaginary. The abortion debate, do not recusscitate orders, and music piracy over the Internet are all examples of ethics debates that went from hypothetical to real. And it is not inconceivable at all that today's science fiction ethics issues will some day become real--transhumanist identity, AI rights, and the like.
And, therefore, I suggest to you as my novel character Scott Gardener would, in coming forward as a lycanthrope, having revealed one's self to the world as a being that is at once both human and wolf, to say no, it is not enough to be human to claim superiority of rights. I can speak for the wolves, to say that we, too, have the right to exist, to find food and sustainance as you do, to declare our territories and defend them, and to perpetuate our species as a citizen of the Earth. The seperation between humans and wolves beyond biology is an arbitrary one, but if one must insist on attributing it to divine providence, then I present myself, as many of your Fundamentalist religious leaders have already suggested, as evidence that that divinity can just as easily take down that seperation.
(Footnote: the above may still carry some merit, since, even though I'm not really a shape-shifting werewolf organizing a civil rights movement in the 2010s, I am a spiritual therianthrope.)
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...
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Shadow Wulf
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As if I don't know that... ofcourse hispanics are great workers, their one of the best people you can hire for jobs cause they usualy don't complain like other people. Everyday they always give an honest days work. but the problem is that they usually don't make enough of an effort to learn English well enough, thats what I mean by lazy. You have no idea how many hispanics I encountered that needed their kids to translate them after living in america for atleast 8 years.Scott Gardener wrote: I don't mean to profile races, so forgive me, but Hispanics are the LEAST lazy people as a culture I know in America. When Cathey and I needed to hire people to work on our house or yard, the people who consistantly showed up and did the work were Hispanic. Everyone else dawdled, didn't finish the job, didn't start the job, left in the middle, skimped on quality, you name it. It was the Hispanic hired services who took pride in their work and consistantly delivered top notch service. No, they're not lazy by any stretch of the imagination.
~~~~~~~
Back on topic.
All this time I thought America didn't believe in the systamtic killing of another species. I didnt think that any of the states would allow such monstrosity. This really tells us the ignorance of people, instead of dealing with the problem that will meet to both sides benefits, they think "its either US or THEM" and just decides to kill out most of the species that they think is in their way. Just like the indians.
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. - Thomas Jefferson
It could be worse, like the invasion of Muslims in France and UK, but they learn the language, and get the good jobs. IE the better paying ones. The problem is though, they keep trying to introduce a new court system centered around Islamic laws, making everyone in the country follow there laws. I am not calling hispanics lazy, I figure there children will be the one's staying in the country longer, and they speak English so, no problem, but they are hard workers.Shadow Wulf wrote:As if I don't know that... ofcourse hispanics are great workers, their one of the best people you can hire for jobs cause they usualy don't complain like other people. Everyday they always give an honest days work. but the problem is that they usually don't make enough of an effort to learn English well enough, thats what I mean by lazy. You have no idea how many hispanics I encountered that needed their kids to translate them after living in america for atleast 8 years.Scott Gardener wrote: I don't mean to profile races, so forgive me, but Hispanics are the LEAST lazy people as a culture I know in America. When Cathey and I needed to hire people to work on our house or yard, the people who consistantly showed up and did the work were Hispanic. Everyone else dawdled, didn't finish the job, didn't start the job, left in the middle, skimped on quality, you name it. It was the Hispanic hired services who took pride in their work and consistantly delivered top notch service. No, they're not lazy by any stretch of the imagination.
"Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere et cul illi pueri dicerent 'Sibylla Ti cupisne' respondebat illa 'Cupio mortere'."
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Shadow Wulf
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Did they suceeded with any of the Islamic laws establishment in France? I hope not.Fenrir wrote: It could be worse, like the invasion of Muslims in France and UK, but they learn the language, and get the good jobs. IE the better paying ones. The problem is though, they keep trying to introduce a new court system centered around Islamic laws, making everyone in the country follow there laws. I am not calling hispanics lazy, I figure there children will be the one's staying in the country longer, and they speak English so, no problem, but they are hard workers.
Fenrir, lets take this conversation to the pms.
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. - Thomas Jefferson
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MoonKit
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Moral of the story...dont eat fast food. 
No seriously, buy all your food from smaller farmers. Theres no need for wolves to be losing land for people to have their fix and get fat.
Now I am as guilty as the rest because I just had Burger King yesterday but at least try to cut it down. I eat fast food once every few months. We may not be able to completley stop all the crap we're doing to this planet but we can slow it down.
And Im all for living in tribes. Who needs computer! Bah! I was fine for the years without one, Ill be fine again.
But I signed it to.
And just remember that the earth will get rid of us if we make ourselves too big a problem. In fact, I think it already has. Crazy tsunamis and hurricanes. An increase in disease. War. We're done for kids.
No seriously, buy all your food from smaller farmers. Theres no need for wolves to be losing land for people to have their fix and get fat.
Now I am as guilty as the rest because I just had Burger King yesterday but at least try to cut it down. I eat fast food once every few months. We may not be able to completley stop all the crap we're doing to this planet but we can slow it down.
And Im all for living in tribes. Who needs computer! Bah! I was fine for the years without one, Ill be fine again.
But I signed it to.
And just remember that the earth will get rid of us if we make ourselves too big a problem. In fact, I think it already has. Crazy tsunamis and hurricanes. An increase in disease. War. We're done for kids.
You are the only light there is for yourself my friend
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Teh_DarkJokerWolf
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I find it so sad..This DVD I have called "WOLVES" was based on the wolves of Idaho an it talked about how the numbers were growing there and next5 thing you know they are being killed off!!
Look at this mess!! It's crazy!! These people are ready to kill off these wolves!! Where are wolves sappose to live if they can be shot just about anywhere?
Surely people have made false claims as to a wolf was attacking their livestock! I mean the way it is now wolves are going to be killed off everywhere now!!! A wolf might come on someone's land because wolves do that that.
They travel, they explore. These people that move onto the land these wolves roam have to know the risks of moving there, but they still do. It's like they want to do this to make trouble. No one can live in peace these days.
Animals want to live as much as any human would. If these people have such problems why don't they try something else? Why does someone or something have to die because it does what it would do naturally?
This world will always be at war, whether it's animals another state, country or with there own neighbors..We are a doomed species because of our selfishness. I know everyone is not like that, but those who are. That's what will be the downfall always..
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wolves/
Look at this mess!! It's crazy!! These people are ready to kill off these wolves!! Where are wolves sappose to live if they can be shot just about anywhere?
Surely people have made false claims as to a wolf was attacking their livestock! I mean the way it is now wolves are going to be killed off everywhere now!!! A wolf might come on someone's land because wolves do that that.
They travel, they explore. These people that move onto the land these wolves roam have to know the risks of moving there, but they still do. It's like they want to do this to make trouble. No one can live in peace these days.
Animals want to live as much as any human would. If these people have such problems why don't they try something else? Why does someone or something have to die because it does what it would do naturally?
This world will always be at war, whether it's animals another state, country or with there own neighbors..We are a doomed species because of our selfishness. I know everyone is not like that, but those who are. That's what will be the downfall always..
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wolves/
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Teh_DarkJokerWolf
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Wolves wouldn't understand that. It's a matter of understanding each other and how one lives and trying to work with it, but no one tries!Fang wrote:You know the humans could just mark their territory, like the wolf does
The few that do attempt get discouraged by those that hate wolves and that wins. Because in this money is lost and the easiet and most convient way is to murder them. Wolves can't talk, though I wish they could, but sdo you think humans would listen?
The things that are used to keep wolves away are to much for those people to deal with. It's all about the easy way, not the right way..
With the prices rising on just about every thing no one wants to spare a cent! Just look at the Nezec Perc Indians..They were literally pushed off their land and put in prisons or camps to work.
They were human as well and respected nature and loved their freedom. They also had many different beliefs and wore skins of the animals, but in doing that they did still respect the creature they had taking down.
They prayed for it's spirit and used every part of whay they killed. It wasn't for money, it was for life. While these people who kill these wolves today kill to live, they do it out of angry and for land an even money..No respect there..
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White Paw
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White Paw