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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:56 am
by vrikasatma
Libertarian, right?

I used to be a Libertarian, too. But I jumped ship to the Cascadian Independence Party. It's a secessionist group that wants Oregon, Washington and Southeast Alaska to secede from the United States and British Columbia to secede from Canada and form their own nation. There's even a few partisans who want to include Northern California.

Now, that simply ain't gonna happen. The Union ain't splitting up. We saw what happened last time someone played the Separatist game (cough, Civil War, cough). But, the Cascadians do support a bunch of stuff that Libertarianism thought was a very fine idea, indeed. Constitutional right to privacy, decentralized government where the power was in the hands of count and provincial seats of government, defense-only armed forces with a budget similar in scale to that of Portugal (impossible for the United States at large, but workable when your country's populace numbers around 35 million), distribution of goods via railroad, and nobody graduates from school without two or three languages under their belt, among others. The main attraction that I found was that Cascadia would be the tenth richest nation on the face of the planet. Currently, Oregon is in the top five Poorest States in the Union. Want to talk about a rags-to-riches story?

Anyway, like I said, the Republic of Cascadia is a pipe dream. WDC wouldn't let us bolt however peacefully we split off, just the same as there's no way in hell Los Angeles would let San Francisco and up bolt and take Their Water (read: the Delta) with them. We tried to split California. Los Angeles squashed that referendum like a bug. If Oregon and Washington tried to go it by ourselves, California by itself would grab us by the scruff and drag us back onto the Field of Blue, kickin' and screamin'.

I still joined the Cascadian Independence Party, and I voted for pretty much everything running under the Democratic and Green parties.

My political philosophy is party is ancillary, it's the issues. If a Green believes in decentralized seats of power, I'll vote for 'em. If a Repub thinks the government has no place and no say in the bedroom, groovy; I may not vote for them but I won't oppose them. If a Dem openly espouses censorship (like Gore, and Lieberman), not a chance in hell and I'll call his a** out on it (and I did in 2000).

I definitely hear the "vote your conscience" part and to an extent, I do. There's a few measures on our ballot that the progressive side wants us to vote down. One of them prohibits a public sector body (government) to condemn private property so as to buy out said property and then hand to another private sector body (read: developers) to develop. The pro side says that it'll gut city governments' ability to condemn crack houses and eyesores and hamstring gentrification. But if you follow the math, the current law means that you can never truly own your own home, you're only leasing it from the bank until and unless Walmart decides they want to build another supercenter on your scatter. That aside, I fled from the Bay Area in the wake of Dot-Com gentrification. Crack houses and eyesores are bad, but being trampled under galloping urban renewal with only a "shut up and go away" bribe to show for it is worse. Houses with peeling paint, buckling sidewalks and rickety front porches aren't the best in the world but if it means that I won't wake up one morning to find a fleet of Walmart's bulldozers giving me forty-eight hours to pack my belongings and find somewhere else to live before they start ripping my home to shreds, I can live with their existence.

The progressives also oppose a measure that makes it illegal for insurance companies to hike their premium rates based on credit scores. It's in inverse proportion: those with bad credit scores pay more for insurance. You're paying out the nose for insurance, which sucks up your money, which makes you unable to keep up with debts, which lowers your credit rating, which hikes up your insurance premiums, which sucks up your...you get the idea. It's a vicious circle that has the effect of keeping the poor poor. The Insurance Measure would level the insurance premium playing field so the burden doesn't fall on those least able to cope with it.

Anyway, it'll probably go down the tubes. The "agin" side has a very slick and in-your-face campaign to defeat it and they'll probably come out on top. But, everyone I know is voting against Measure 43, which would require 48 hour parental notification of an older teen girl's wanting to get an abortion with no exception in the cases of rape or incest, and for Measure 44 which would allow the Oregon state government to buy bulk prescription drugs and distribute them for really cheap, possibly in line with or even undercutting Walmart and Rite-Aid's new $4 plans. It's give-and-take.

Sorry if I'm going on too long, I tend to go off on politics...kudos to you if you're still with me :thumbsup:

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:29 am
by PariahPoet
Heh heh, actually you're going to hate me, but I lean more toward the constitution party. :lol:

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:12 am
by nachoboy
i was watching the governor's debates here in Idaho, and there was a constitution party guy, and he was no crazy. i mean no offence, pariahpoet, but man! he was weird!

i mean, he legally changed his middle name to "pro-life" so that they would print it on the ballot. he was so crazy, the constitution party wouldn't even endorse him! i was told that the party's website even said not to waste your votes on him! his party told people no to vote for him! how crazy is that!?

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:34 am
by MattSullivan
Why in the hell would you want to secede from...THE UNITED STATES for god's sake? We have problems, but yeesh. Secession? That doesnt do anyone any good. Just look at Canada and all the problems they're having with Quebec.

I'm sorry. i just looked at that "Republic of Cascadia" and it made me giggle. Sorry, i just couldn't halp myself. You're saying the pacific northwest is "occupied" territory? Hah!


Sorry. again...sorry. :}

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:55 pm
by Uniform Two Six
Don't laugh. California has become progressively more divided politically. More to the point, in our state, the political divide has been along geographic lines. There's been serious talk in some circles of the northern crescent seceeding from the rest of the state and forming the 51st state of Northern California. Now, it's agreed that this is likely a pipe dream, and economically we all have a lot to lose from such a boneheaded move. On the other hand, with Sacremento refusing to pay for badly needed infrastructure refits (like the Bay Bridge), CalTrans has had to pay for the projects through toll hikes (from $1 to $3 over the last decade, and it seems almost certain that the latest toll hike of three years ago will be followed up by another one next year bringing the tolls on Bay Area bridges to $4 per crossing). That and the energy crisis budget problems are really beginning to hurt Northern California economically, so you still hear grumblings here and there. People out here are royally pissed at both the Federal Government and Arnold as well. If BART-to-San Jose falls through (again) you might start to see serious suggestions of secession again (though I still doubt it).

On the other hand, I'm betting that Quebec will seceed from Canada sometime in my lifetime. I've known some Canadians, and there's apparently some real dissatisfaction up there.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:45 pm
by vrikasatma
MattSullivan wrote:I'm sorry. i just looked at that "Republic of Cascadia" and it made me giggle. Sorry, i just couldn't halp myself.
Actually, you're supposed to laugh at that one, so don't apologize. It's just the standard-grade Oregonian sense of humour.

Check out this site, it's a little less tongue-in-cheek:

http://recollectionbooks.com/Cascadia/

We also got a few anarchist punk elementals who want Cascadia to do things like ban meat and internal combustion engines entirely. Giggle at the "wet state dry laughter" folks and ignore the whackjobs.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:13 pm
by Searif
even If I could vote I wouldn't, why? because I know that I won't get what I want no matter who gets voted in so I just do not care.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:41 pm
by vrikasatma
Yeah, that's true.
What changed my mind was that not only did I not get what I wanted, I got what I DIDN'T want!

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:43 pm
by PariahPoet
nachoboy wrote:i was watching the governor's debates here in Idaho, and there was a constitution party guy, and he was no crazy. i mean no offence, pariahpoet, but man! he was weird!

i mean, he legally changed his middle name to "pro-life" so that they would print it on the ballot. he was so crazy, the constitution party wouldn't even endorse him! i was told that the party's website even said not to waste your votes on him! his party told people no to vote for him! how crazy is that!?
Yep....exactly why we'll never get on the ballot. First because it's a third party, second because for some reason they tend to pick flamboyant, over-the-top people. That's one thing I don't like about them, while I support most of their beliefs, they have no sense whatsover when it comes to candidates or public behavior.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:45 am
by Kirk Hammett
We actually have to vote here once we've turned 18. So we have no choice, and I legally have to vote. Unfortunately, doing donkey votes never works, because they put the sheets with all ticked boxes (or nothing written on it, or abusive stuff written on it) to the winning person.

I am not putting my vote towards John Howard. Never have, never will. Unfortunately the opposition is no better. Im thinking Independent party.

Americans probably should legally have to vote I guess. Im not sure what my opinion is on that. Im not fussed about voting, it doesn't take all day. But sometimes I don't really know who to vote for, because they are all so damned suss.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:26 am
by vrikasatma
The scary thing here is that some political organizations in this state are doing things like pre-filling out ballots according to their own agendas, sending them to people to sign, and send in. This is very illegal and it goes without saying is voter manipulation if not fraud of the highest order. Fortunately the few people I've talked to that have gotten these chits is to rip 'em up and throw 'em away. I didn't get anything like that but if I had, I'd have SO busted them to the Secty of State. Oregonians don't like anyone telling them how to vote.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:08 am
by Renorei
Ok, thus far this thread hasn't gotten out of hand, but before it does, I just want to remind everyone that this thread is about getting out there and voting, and fighting apathy, not about politics or issues. The Pack has argued about politics before, and it always turns out ugly. So, let's not criticize anyone else's political stances, ok?

And keep in mind that sometimes when voting, we need to ignore our own beliefs on individual issues and just vote for the candidate who is the most competent. Personally, I'm a Republican (oh and by the way, don't say the Republican party isn't progressive...we've got nothing against progress; you need to realize that your definition of progress isn't the only applicable one), but I'd rather vote for a competent Democrat than an incompetent Republican. Also keep in mind where the candidates stand on issues that everyone can agree on. For example, education. Education is an area where our country needs significant improvement and pretty much all parties agree on that. You might want to seriously consider whether it's wise to vote for a candidate who doesn't have a plan for how to improve education, whether they're Republican or Democrat (or third party).

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:56 pm
by vrikasatma
No problem there. Notice I said "Conservatives" and didn't necessarily equate it solely with the GOP. I know there's some good Repubs out there, just as there are bad Dems out there. I have wake-up-screaming nightmares about the 2008 ticket being Bill Frist and Lieberman...and if the ticket comes down to McCain vs. Barack Obama, I'll probably resort to "eenie meenie miney mo" to choose.

Education? Absolutely. Oregonians tend to vote against taxes but I had no trouble voting for the levy for our city's schools. Cops, firemen, schools...yep. Pay for those, if nothing else. Our country's wobbling under a 38% illiteracy rate, half of those who can read only do so at the second-grade level, and our college graduates can't balance a checkbook or read a map. Thailand has 100% literacy and they're doing it without Hukt On Fonnix or Simplified Thai. We have work to do.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:05 pm
by Renorei
By the way guys, that wasn't just directed at vrikasatma, that was directed at everybody! Education ftw!!

I can't help but find it a complete travesty that two of the most important people in our society, cops and teachers, are some of the lowest paid. :(

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:52 pm
by White Paw
eh....didnt vote this time....not enough time.....o-well .....i hate politics anyways so whatever.... :P

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:47 pm
by Lupin
I managed to move out of the county I was registered in 7 days before the elections. :(

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:48 pm
by psiguy
I voted today... And between a candidate who puts criminals on the streets or a candidate who puts old people on the streets, I chose the odd guy out (and voted for an independent candidate).

I hate to pick my poison...but the choices seem soo limited y'know?
:cry:

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:44 pm
by Ashkin-Tyr
Well, I submitted my vote for the Wisconsin elections today.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:52 pm
by vrikasatma
I voted a couple weeks ago. (Voting by mail rocks).
The neat thing about the elections here is the elections board rents out the big hall at the fairgrounds and has a party. Elections Night in Eugene is a social event! :lol: 8)

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:53 pm
by Lukas
Rep. FTW woot(my politcal 2 cents)

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:01 pm
by Ashkin-Tyr

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:59 pm
by Figarou
Politics BLEH!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEONfGP1aYE

(Heh...A duckie is in the video) :D

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:19 pm
by nachoboy
man, fig. you are such a dork.Image

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:00 am
by Figarou
nachoboy wrote:man, fig. you are such a dork.Image
Heh... likewise. :D


Even though that video in my last post was made in the 1980s, it can represent whats going on today. We are ALL living in a "Land of confusion."

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:06 am
by Templar
Wish the elections would have been on Monday. I'd have encouraged people to show up at the polls as V.

Remember, remember the 5th of November....