(Warning: RANT) "Furries". What is...what is Not?

[Set]

Really now? The word "demon" is pretty much a blanket term when referring to creatures from Japanese myths. Unless I completely and utterly missed something the way I used it is acceptable.

I've never seen the word "youkai" used when speaking of a werewolf at any rate.

It just struck me as odd.

[JoshuaMadoc]

Really now? The word "demon" is pretty much a blanket term when referring to creatures from Japanese myths. Unless I completely and utterly missed something the way I used it is acceptable.

I've never seen the word "youkai" used when speaking of a werewolf at any rate.

It just struck me as odd.

There's always the alternative words like "jyuujin" (though that's me speaking broken japanese...), "jyuunin"/"jyuuni", "kaijyuu"/"Yajiu" (these words are said to be "vilifying words"), "jyuuouki", etc. Note that "jyuu" means something like "animal".

[Set]

Hahaha...even with non-english words there's debate. *amused, yes*

There's always the alternative words like "jyuujin" (though that's me speaking broken japanese...)

Ah. That explains why I couldn't find a translation for it.

[Lupin]

I prefer to call drawn furries "kemono".


If a furry can't change, i call them "kemono". If they can change into any shape, i call them "youkai", "hanyo" or "jyuujin".

Well, there's some bizarre word usage...

"Youkai" refers to an evil spirit of some sorts. Essentially, it's the Japanese word for demon.

Actually, it doesn't seem to have the negative 'evil' connotation in Japanese that it does in english:

妖怪 【ようかい】 (n) ghost; apparition; phantom; spectre; specter; demon; monster; goblin;

Not that there's any direct translation between languages anyway.

[RedEye]

When I ran into the term "Furry" I tried looking it up in the Wiki. Then, being totally confused, I tried "Furry Fandom" in the Wiki.
Some nice people found me and brought me back home, and I did get better! Honestly!
My view of Furry anad Furry Culture is that it is too new for any serious investigations yet. It seems to be less than thirty years old, and is still in the process of developing.
It will be interesting to see what it matures into...

[Vuldari]

At one time, "Furry" was just a playful, alternative term to identify characters that are specifically Non-Human Animals that behave, talk, think or live like humans.

...but that meaning was corrupted YEARS ago and can no longer be considered the definitive meaning.


There is a large, now publicly known group and sub-culture of people out there who call themselves "Furries". Many of them hold beliefs that are radical, unconventional, and disturbing to outsiders. The group is imfamously known to be largely detatched from reality, and very loose about expressing thier sexual fantasies and fetishes.


How can one possibly NOT see a problem with refering to Anthropomorphic characters that are in no way, shape or form inspired by or created for this culture by the same name?


No Set...they are NOT the same thing. ...not any more...


You are part of the problem here.


It is absolutely unfair to insist upon tying this group of people with animalistic spiritual and moral beliefs forever together with any and all characters that ever use non-humans as the base and/or inspiration by refusing to stop referring to the two seperate things by the Same Name.


Either STOP using the word "Furry" to describe general Anthropomorphic Animal characters, or convince the "Therians", Cultists, Yiffers and the rest to stop calling Themselves "Furries".


This is simply Bull$***...


If you are a Furry, believe whatever the hell you want, but for the love of decency and respect, stop dragging the entire genre down into your pit of Social-Outcast with you.


A line needs to be drawn between the "Furry-Culture", and just plain ordinary Animal Characters if the genre is ever going to regain any shred of respect/accept-ability again.


It is the behavior of the members of the Furry Sub-Culture that has turned the entire genre into a "TABOO" amongst a steadily growing portion of the entertainment industry. ...making everyone afraid to use the characters for anything but outragious slapstick comedy, in fear...literally "FEAR"...of being associated in some way with this group.


They don't like themselves or their characters being called by the same name as this ultimate anti-culture...and neither do I.


"Furry" used to be a fun, cute word...but the "Furries" ruined it for all of us, and now it has become a word that can make any sensable man or woman cringe at the sound of it. ...especially if used in the same sentence as thier name, or in reference to thier own personal work.

...thanks to the inventions of "Yiff", "Fursonas", "FurPiles", "Phantom/Mental/P/etc. Shifts" and all sorts of other absurd, creepy stuff that has been spawned by the culture since it adopted that word as it name.

By my own experience, the Extreme "Furries", (...the ones who make all the stories you hear about them TRUE...), are impossible to reason with, and they will Never give up thier name.



That is why I suggest that a New Genre Title should be Chosen and adopted by the rest of us who are sick and tired of being called by the same name as ...THEM...


Ideally, I think it should be something that sounds really basic, and quite honestly, possibly a little 'boring'. Cool sounding Latin, German, Japanise, etc. words would be out of the question, naturally...otherwise the Furries would just latch on to that as well and claim THAT is thiers too, in time.


Even the word "Anthropomorphic", or the shorthand "Anthro" has been twisted by association to inspire thoughts of disturbing things when heard by many...unfortunately.


I think the first step in re-establishing the solid fact that not all people who choose Non-Human characters as thier medium of choice think the way "Furries" do will be to STOP calling those characters and those stories by that same name.


So Set...please...STOP IT...you are only making it worse.

-------------------------------------------

In all honesty, I have pondered fondly about the idea of creating an elaborate Hollywood style Werewolf, or other Animal Costume for Halloween (something more elaborate and realistic than a paper mache mask and a monkey suit) every year since I've had my own income to fund such a project.

...but I dare not even mention my interest in such a thing, because I know that the more effort I put into the costume (Which I would have no interest in making at all "Frightening", contrary to Halloween spirit), the harder it would be to convince my net savvy siblings and friends that it is NOT a "FurSuit". ...and being the perfectionist that I am, making a simple, sloppy one would just be unacceptable.

So...it never happens.


Both Matt Sullivan and Anthony Brownrigg have expressed significant concern about controlling the content of thier films so as to not make either of them be applicable to the term "Furry Film". ...in reaction to the fear that no studio would support them if they were, and thier reputations would be eternally tarnished by that decevingly innocent sounding label "Furry".


...and then of course there are frustrated, tantrum throwing artists like Jakkal...

-----------------------------------------------------------

My point is...there are many people out there who wish to enjoy expressing thier creativity using characters that either are animals, or animal-like...

...whose options and ability to enjoy the exploration of the genre are consistantly harmed and destroyed by the disgraceful reputation the Furry Culture has brought to it. ...a genre wich they selfishly insist upon declaring everywhere they go to be the "Furry" genre.

...THIER Genre...or so they insist


I've had enough of this.


"I'm mad as Hell and I'm not going to take this any more"
~ Howard Beale - "Network" (1976)

[Figarou]

Ew. How many times do I have to - oh, feh. You're hopeless Fig. *wipes off slobber*

I'm not against furries in any way. I just don't understand whats going on. I'm still learning here.

There's nothing wrong with that. I just think it's rediculous to get in such a huff over things like this.

Wait...you don't understand. The reason why I don't want to be considered a furry is that I can't call myself anything without 1st knowing what it is, what it means, and everything associated to it.

Its kind of like learning a new custom in another country. If you don't know their ways, you can end up getting embarrassed. Like walking into a Japanese home without 1st taking off your shoes.

Also....I don't want to say...."Yes, I'm a furry." Then another furry asks me something I know nothing of. Its safe for me to say..."No, I'm not a furry. I'm just a werewolf fan."


understand?

[FoxOfWar]

Well well well... I think Vuldari makes a good point in that the term "Furry" has been something else than what it is now. I personally don't mind, but I do mind about what the general public connects the term with...

I do draw what could some years ago be called "furry." But I think I prefer the term "transformation art" better, just because it describes better what I draw. All of my characters have something to do with transformation in a way or another, so the term fits.

Now that I think of it, I nearly never actually use the term "furry" myself.

[Miragh]

There is a large, now publicly known group and sub-culture of people out there who call themselves "Furries". Many of them hold beliefs that are radical, unconventional, and disturbing to outsiders. The group is imfamously known to be largely detatched from reality, and very loose about expressing thier sexual fantasies and fetishes.

This is one of my main reasons why I can’t stand it called a furry and try to avoid this at all costs. I know not EVERY furry goes into this category; generalization is always an unpleasant aspect. But one can not deny that speaking of the reputation of the term “furry’ this creepy part of the fandom outweighs whatever good has come from it now.

How can one possibly NOT see a problem with refering to Anthropomorphic characters that are in no way, shape or form inspired by or created for this culture by the same name?

No Set...they are NOT the same thing. ...not any more...

You are part of the problem here.

Agreed. One might believe that the term furry is still an absolutely loosely defined term, however I don’t and just because some people do, don’t allow them to form a general principle out of it. Not with the undeniable huge negative aspect that comes with the term. I won’t tolerate being thrown into the same pot with those freaks (concerning not the general “furries’ but especially "Yiff", "Fursonas", "FurPiles", et cetera) and people will ALWAYS look at this side first and indefinitely argue and ask about it. Not my cup of coffee (nope, I don’t like tea :b) and like Vuldari mentioned in the first post of this thread that’s “More than I signed up for’ too.

Therefore I see myself NOT part of this furry fandom, I want an OWN term for our group as it’s exactly the conceited claim that ALL and EVERY anthromorphic figures are furries which drives me mad. I know we all tend to speak in generalities, but this is simply a disgrace. I personally don’t hate furries, as there are a lot of good people out there which describe themselves with that term, but I’m simply not a part of it.

A line needs to be drawn between the "Furry-Culture", and just plain ordinary Animal Characters if the genre is ever going to regain any shred of respect/accept-ability again.


It is the behavior of the members of the Furry Sub-Culture that has turned the entire genre into a "TABOO" amongst a steadily growing portion of the entertainment industry. ...making everyone afraid to use the characters for anything but outragious slapstick comedy, in fear...literally "FEAR"...of being associated in some way with this group.

They don't like themselves or their characters being called by the same name as this ultimate anti-culture...and neither do I.

"Furry" used to be a fun, cute word...but the "Furries" ruined it for all of us, and now it has become a word that can make any sensable man or woman cringe at the sound of it. ...especially if used in the same sentence as thier name, or in reference to thier own personal work.

...thanks to the inventions of "Yiff", "Fursonas", "FurPiles", "Phantom/Mental/P/etc. Shifts" and all sorts of other absurd, creepy stuff that has been spawned by the culture since it adopted that word as it name.

By my own experience, the Extreme "Furries", (...the ones who make all the stories you hear about them TRUE...), are impossible to reason with, and they will Never give up thier name.

I see why a lot of people think this whole debate is pointless, as furry and ordinary animal characters definitely go into the same direction. However the differences can no longer be ignored, it’s exactly what you stated above.

[JoshuaMadoc]

At one time, "Furry" was just a playful, alternative term to identify characters that are specifically Non-Human Animals that behave, talk, think... (getting too long.)

I think you should be aware that this statement has just turned this coup into a "separatist movement"...

The current generalising of material genre has already been set in stone, by chance, word of mouth, and/or indirect publicity/promotion, and inevitably, people would still refer some stuff as "furry" because, again, it was set in stone, meaning it's stuck into their heads like glass superglued inside their colons. And when i say people, i can refer to more than 1 billion people. Even if they say the word "funny animals", or "animal people", it still counts. It's going to take an indefinite amount of time and effort to change this way of thinking, especially when this proposal is intended towards millions of people.

[Vuldari]

...the term "Furry" has been something else than what it is now. I personally don't mind, but I do mind about what the general public connects the term with...

I do draw what could some years ago be called "furry." But I think I prefer the term "transformation art" better, just because it describes better what I draw. All of my characters have something to do with transformation in a way or another, so the term fits.

Now that I think of it, I nearly never actually use the term "furry" myself.

Right...it matters very little any more that the word "Furry" was never originally intended to mean all that other stuff, since it can not be ignored that it bothers a great many people who work with and enjoy things that are applicable that now it does. ...by common public knowlage, now MORESO than the original meaning, it seems.


I called myself a Furry for At least Two years, and held it in the back of my mind with uncertainty for several after that untill now, once I began to learn just what many of these people were really about.


Since long before I had any knowlage of such a group of people, the majority of my character artwork involved animal characters, purely because I found them more entertaining to draw, and make up stories about.


I am an artist who draws and writes about animal characters. ...and I continue to enjoy doing so geatly. ...exept that I can't share any of it with anyone anymore without being accused of all sorts of strange things which are now associated with the "Furry" culture. ...and it is driving me NUTS.


When I was a little kid, I could draw a bunny wearing bluejeans, and write stories like "Snowy the Pup Saves Christmas" and everyone just thought it was cute and praised me for it.


Now, when I sketch a picture of an anthropomorphic Fox sleeping on a grassy hilltop, my mother and sister look at it dissaprovingly, commenting, "is that supposed to be a relaxed or SEXY pose?...", expressing great concern in thier voices about the possibility that I might actually be drawing 'attractive' animal characters.

(BTW: if that drawing did look at all "sexy" it was not intentinal, but merely a result of drawing the character well enought to be not-ugly.)

What ever happened to being praised for your drawings looking more attractive?

That is just one more way the impact of Furry Culture on the genre has ruined my artistic ambitions and my respectability as an artist who chooses to draw animal characters.

Not even my FAMILY will support me any more in my character art ... because they are afraid I will become like those people they read about on the internet and saw on TV.

[PariahPoet]

Shifting is the difference. A Furry or anthro are always in the animal form.

Werewolves are people who turn into animals. They are people with special abilities, thats where it draws the lines

Hey guess what. My furry self is also my spiritual self which is a were-jaguarundi. You can't change the meaning of a term just because you don't like it. A furry is anything that has both human and non-human animal characteristics. Deal with it.

[Figarou]

...thanks to the inventions of "Yiff", "Fursonas", "FurPiles", "Phantom/Mental/P/etc. Shifts" and all sorts of other absurd, creepy stuff that has been spawned by the culture since it adopted that word as it name.

Yuck!!

Thats what I meant in my previous post.

Also....I don't want to say...."Yes, I'm a furry." Then another furry asks me something I know nothing of. Its safe for me to say..."No, I'm not a furry. I'm just a werewolf fan."

I know not all furries are into that stuff. I've met a few "clean furries."

[PariahPoet]

Vuldari, sounds like you have a personal problem.
People thought you were a perv because you called yourself furry(at one point), boo-hoo. That doesn't mean the rest of us are perverted and it doesn't mean you can change the definition of the term. You don't have to call Goldie's art furry, but that doesn't mean it isn't. If you don't like the fandom, then don't associate with it, but please, please stop insulting those of us who do like it.

And to those who say they really are furry but deny it to everyone else- Why? By hiding what you are, you're just promoting the stereotype of the sex-hounds. If more decent people admitted to being furry, maybe people would associate us with the fandom instead of the very vocal minority of yiffers.

[Vuldari]

At one time, "Furry" was just a playful, alternative term to identify characters that are specifically Non-Human Animals that behave, talk, think... (getting too long.)

I think you should be aware that this statement has just turned this coup into a "separatist movement"...

The current generalising of material genre has already been set in stone, by chance, word of mouth, and/or indirect publicity/promotion, and inevitably, people would still refer some stuff as "furry" because, again, it was set in stone, meaning it's stuck into their heads like glass superglued inside their colons. And when i say people, i can refer to more than 1 billion people. Even if they say the word "funny animals", or "animal people", it still counts. It's going to take an indefinite amount of time and effort to change this way of thinking, especially when this proposal is intended towards millions of people.

True enough.

History is history. What's done is done. Just as people will allways have thoughts about death and war whenever the name "Pearl Harbor" is mentioned, regardless of how beautiful and peaceful it may become, some assiciation will allways be there.

The damage done can never be truely erased.

But refusing to admit that there could ever be a difference, or that it could ever change will severely cripple the chances of it ever getting better.


As for my intentions being more of "Seperatist" movement than a "Coup", it only appears that way if you don't pick up on the whole of my hope and ambition.

...which is for this theoretical alternative group to take over as the majority representatives of the genre and grow large enough to push the "Furries" out of the spotlight where they would return to being a mostly unknown and quiet 'niche' culture again, as they once were.

[Figarou]

And to those who say they really are furry but deny it to everyone else- Why? By hiding what you are, you're just promoting the stereotype of the sex-hounds. If more decent people admitted to being furry, maybe people would associate us with the fandom instead of the very vocal minority of yiffers.

I've had the chance to meet you in person, PariahPoet. You are a fun person to be around with.


As for hiding what I am, I'm not hiding anything. I like to learn more about furry fandom before I call myself a furry. Doing a google search doesn't help much. It leads me to places that gets me even more confused.

Like this place.
http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php


Ok......before this gets out of hand, I'm going to say this.

We all see things differently. It sometimes leads to confusion and misunderstanding. Which in turn leads to hatred.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting sick and tired of this. I'm doing the best I can to keep this forum a fun place to visit. But I can't do this without your help.

Lets keep furry rants out of this forum, M'kay?

[PariahPoet]

As for hiding what I am, I'm not hiding anything. I like to learn more about furry fandom before I call myself a furry. Doing a google search doesn't help much. It leads me to places that gets me even more confused.

No, no, I wasn't talking about you. You're free to be whatever you want.
I was talking to the people who call themselve furs in private, but deny it publicly.

[Figarou]

As for hiding what I am, I'm not hiding anything. I like to learn more about furry fandom before I call myself a furry. Doing a google search doesn't help much. It leads me to places that gets me even more confused.

No, no, I wasn't talking about you. You're free to be whatever you want.
I was talking to the people who call themselve furs in private, but deny it publicly.

Oh....ok. See how confused I am.

Sorry about that.

[PariahPoet]

Aww, hehe. *headpats* It's ok.

But yes, I'd definately like to see an end to this thread. It isn't accomplishing anything but insulting people.

[MattSullivan]

I'd like to weigh in on this topic with a short story, which explains to a small degree, why I am taking careful steps to avoid the "furry label" to Camp Lycanthrope.

When I first went to animation school. it was beyond exciting. As a first year student, I placed some of my work up on the school's display wall, as was the custom.

Bear in mind, this was just as the internet was getting popular. I had never heard of furry, or furries...

Two men came to me one day, saying they "liked" my work and wanted to show me their own. Eager to make friends, I let them. Their "portfolio" was filled with X-rated images of popular animal cartoon characters. I was appalled, but pretended to like them until they left. Afterwards, I was distraught, and took all my work down.

A friend asked me why I took my work down. "I don't want more wierdos coming up to me" was my response. My friend, a 4th year student, proceeded to lecture me about the horror of a group of people called "furries"

Now over the years I've seen a lot of stuff that makes furry look relatively tame. I myself draw plenty animal-based cartoons, and I even have dabbled in the "naughty" aspect of it. But if you want to be a player in Hollywood, you can't just pitch a movie chock full of the worst furry elements and expect someone to like it. I bent over backwards to make sure my characters were likeabe, and MARKETABLE, and they arent going to be that way with giant thrusting boobs, or rampant sex in the vein of most online furry "art".

Maybe that stuff plays to the Japanese, or to the anime crowd, but if you think for example, mainstream America would go to a film chock full of sleazy werewolf sex, you're both ignorant and naive. My only concern was never to sell a "furry" movie. Just an animated werewolf film.

Oh, and if someoneasks me if I'm a "furry", i tell them, "No, I'm an animation artist who enjoys drawing monsters and animals"

Now if any of you think I'm overreacting, you've never met a producer who asked you "This isn't a furry movie...is it?" with fear and hesitation in their eyes. As someone who wants to tell a story, it's disheartening to think that a producer might take one look at my characters, mutter to themself "Oh God, this must be some friggin furry movie" and hurl it into the garbage can.

Trust me. It happens. i've been there...and I've seen work far better than my own passed over because someone thought it was a "furry" project.

[PariahPoet]

I can understand why you steer away from that label for your films. That is unfortunate that people think that way, but understandable for you.

But "most" furry art is not porn. Just some. I'd say the majority of us are clean. People just tend to latch on to the worst images and refuse to see anything good in the fandom.

[Figarou]

All it took was one bad apple to ruin the rest in the barrel.

[MattSullivan]

I would also like to add, that one of my biggest pet peeves, is when furries label ANY movie with animal characters in it, as a FURRY movie.

KNOCK IT OFF! As a professional animator who's worked on many of these characters, it is really insulting. Just call them what they are. Cartoons, or characters, or animated movies.

Just don't call something a "furry" movie because it has animals in it, for GOD'S sake...I beg you all.

P.S. And pleas stop using the word fursuit. it sounds creepy. Just call it a costume. That's what it is. A....COS......TUMMMMMMMMMMME.

[Miragh]

I can understand why you steer away from that label for your films. That is unfortunate that people think that way, but understandable for you.

But "most" furry art is not porn. Just some. I'd say the majority of us are clean. People just tend to latch on to the worst images and refuse to see anything good in the fandom.

Fair enough, most might not be porn indeed, but what’s out there is enough to give the whole a terrible reputation. It’s really unfortunate but as you pointed out people will interminably tend to see the negative aspect first and rate your work accordingly.

Therefore I think this separation is absolutely essential. It’s not about insulting people by going down the line of “furries suck! They need to die, blah blah rhabarber’ but being able to show your anthromorphic work and being proud of it without people pointing and shouting “furry’ at ya, as they remember all the creepy things this gerne brought up.

[Shadow Wulf]

Tell me this. Would you have known those were "werewolves" if she didn't specify that they were?

What would you have called them then?

Never mind the fact people can't agree on what exactly a werewolf even IS... I mean, how many debates have all of us had about that subject?

Let me answer your question by asking another, Would you have known any other werewolf pictures would be werewolves? Would that automaticaly be consider as furries, they have the mind of a man, does that make them a furry?

Shifting is the difference. A Furry or anthro are always in the animal form.

Werewolves are people who turn into animals. They are people with special abilities, thats where it draws the lines

Hey guess what. My furry self is also my spiritual self which is a were-jaguarundi. You can't change the meaning of a term just because you don't like it. A furry is anything that has both human and non-human animal characteristics. Deal with it.

If it doesnt transform physicaly, its not consider as mythological creature or a were, therefore its not a were-jaguarundi, its a furry or anthro or whatever you want to call it. Which brings me to my next point. What makes a Gorgon(Medusa), or a merpeople or even a harpy from being a furry? They are people with animal characteristics, but they are labled as mythologycal creatures, just like werewolves.

I would also like to add, that one of my biggest pet peeves, is when furries label ANY movie with animal characters in it, as a FURRY movie.

KNOCK IT OFF! As a professional animator who's worked on many of these characters, it is really insulting. Just call them what they are. Cartoons, or characters, or animated movies.

Just don't call something a "furry" movie because it has animals in it, for GOD'S sake...I beg you all.

P.S. And pleas stop using the word fursuit. it sounds creepy. Just call it a costume. That's what it is. A....COS......TUMMMMMMMMMMME.

Thank you! I find it unfair that these furries call cartoon characters like bugs bunny furries, its not fair to call them that cause they were around before that term was used. Heres a perfect example. http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... 554#120554