THE PACK Message Boards

MoonKit wrote:

Searif Bogard wrote:I feel safe, I am in a small town in Ontario where the worst that could happen is someone TRYING to egg your house(seriously, they missed my house)

Thats hilarious.

yeah, the guy who tried to recently moved, which I enjoy because one more week with him bugging me and there would be reports of a murder in Gravenhurst

Holy crap. My hometown state is #1. These top ten listings are pritty informative.

Z wrote:

geekboy1500 wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:I recently found out that september 9/11 attack was for the most part set up by our own government. Search for "loose change" and watch the video.

My parents had friends that DIED that day. I would appreciate it if you didn't blame the deaths of three thousand some people on a government, that most likely had absolutely nothing to do with it.

obviously u havent seen the video. i would suggest you watch it before you judge it. if i knew someone who died on 9-11, i sure as hell would think i have the right to know whos the real guilty party.

Penn and Teller: Bullshit - 9/11 Conspiracy
Screw Loose Change: Not Freakin' Again Edition
Maddox presents a good point.
NIST's Investigation
Popular Mechanic's debunking
Loose Change 2nd Edition Guide - Some stuff in here is basically word-for-word in the "Screw Loose Change" video, so there'll be some overlap.

Z wrote:

ravaged_warrior wrote:

Z wrote:

geekboy1500 wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:I recently found out that september 9/11 attack was for the most part set up by our own government. Search for "loose change" and watch the video.

My parents had friends that DIED that day. I would appreciate it if you didn't blame the deaths of three thousand some people on a government, that most likely had absolutely nothing to do with it.

obviously u havent seen the video. i would suggest you watch it before you judge it. if i knew someone who died on 9-11, i sure as hell would think i have the right to know whos the real guilty party.

Penn and Teller: Bullshit - 9/11 Conspiracy
Screw Loose Change: Not Freakin' Again Edition
Maddox presents a good point.
NIST's Investigation
Popular Mechanic's debunking
Loose Change 2nd Edition Guide - Some stuff in here is basically word-for-word in the "Screw Loose Change" video, so there'll be some overlap.

interesting how the "everything-is-exactly-the-way-it-seems-and-theres-nuthing-else-to-it" group always finds it necessary to heavily insult the "we-have-the-right-to-do-our-own-research-instead-of-just-accept-everything-the-media-feeds-us" opposition. maybe in a desparate attempt to appeal to the masses?

Two of those links were NIST's investigation and Popular Mechanics... I don't think they did any insulting.

As for the Screw Loose Change and Loose Change 2nd Edition Guide, I don't recall any personal insults, but I admit they are somewhat condescending to conspiracy theorists. However, they do show that Loose Change is both amateurishly put together and that parts of it are misrepresented.

Maddox... Well, Maddox doesn't go into any explanation, I just said he made a good point.

Penn and Teller, well, they insult a lot of people, just because they're Penn and Teller, but I think that the most relevant quote in that video (though the entire thing is pretty good, if you can get past the insults) in terms of this thread is this:

Jody Dean wrote:This mistrust of an official explanation motivates them to go looking further, and then they want to keep going, and keep going, and find out what they think could be a more convincing explanation.

Hmmm... This reminds me of something from this very thread...

Shadow Wulf wrote:Well I knew the government was involved, but I didnt know they set the whole thing up.

So that's all I have to say. Well, one more thing... You said in your last post "i would suggest you watch it before you judge it". I would suggest the same for Screw Loose change. Don't ignore it just because it contradicts something you've already seen.

Anyway, I'm done. I don't feel like getting in an argument with a conspiracy theorist.

I just find it incredibly difficult to believe an administration as fundamentally incompetent as the Bush administration (just look at the disaster in Iraq) could in the space of about eight months plan a massive terrorist attack on their own soil (because no matter who did it, it cannot be anything other than terrorism) with such secrecy that, over the next five and a half years, not one piece of actual evidence that they had done so has filtered out into the mainstream media.

If you want a rod to beat the Bush administration with - look at the shambles in Afghanistan. Look at the complete and utter disaster in Iraq. Look at the stunning incompetence at every level during Hurricane Katrina. You don't need conspiracy theories in order to castigate them.

Damn... You've pulled me back in. I'm going to try to leave the subject of the conspiracy theory alone (and yes, it IS a conspiracy theory) and stick to stuff going on around it.

Z wrote:

ravaged_warrior wrote:its kinda hard to do when one side is so threatened by the other, they find it necessary to stoop to harassment and opinions as a way to back up thier "point"

Actually, I see that kind of stuff from the 9/11 "truth" side as well. People getting called "sheeple", people being told in rather obnoxious ways to be open minded. It's a bit of a two-way street.

i just believe in learning the truth through personal research

So do the deniers, that's what they did in response to the Loose Change video. That's what the Screw Loose Change people did... Alright, Penn and Teller could have done a better job, but they did present a few interesting points. Once again I'm wondering if you looked at anything past the Penn and Teller video. After the title, Screw Loose Change does not attack the video, and it does not, that I remember, attack anyone who believes it. It presents the same exact video, except with subtitles giving specific examples and evidence, complete with sources, something that I don't remember having seen in Loose Change. In addition to that, it points out the many cases of misinformation and fact-skewering of the original video, which had several quotes butchered to fit with what they were saying.

Okay, this time I am done, I find this subject depressing for a number of reasons, partially because like Geekboy I find it disrespectful, so I'm out.

Okay, this time I am done, I find this subject depressing for a number of reasons, partially because like Geekboy I find it disrespectful, so I'm out.

The subject is touchy, but it doesn't mean you can't have a well informed debate about it. Loose Change brings up some interesting points. Most of which are purely circumstatial.

However. The odds of a govermnent blowing up 35 hundred people. By hijacking 2 commercial planes (and screwing that industry) is highly unlikely.

Hey, whether the government did it or somebody else's government did it, who cares? It has already been done and you arent going to do anything about it except complain about whichever group of people did do it.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:DO YOU? Do you live where it's dangerous? I know every place has it's dangers, some worst than others..sadly enough..

I'm safe enough for the time being. Living in a small town in Mass., there's little serious crime to speak of, and the worst dangers are mundane - car crashes, blizzards, and all that. The worst non-mundane thing I have to worry about is someone nuking Mass. in some war because we got Route 128 and all the technological goodies on it, or some killer tidal wave taking me out because Mass. is on the coast and there's this one island that - if part of it breaks off a huge tidal wave will totally devastate the coastal parts of the USA and parts of Europe such as Spain, etc.

I get to thinking about Z' Thread she made.. "The Thought That Constantly Plagues My Mind" Is mans reason to exsist to destroy each other..Need I mention wat happened recently with the shooting an the September 11th event? it's almost like we are destined to destroy each other..I personally don't like the idea of wars an homicide an Mass murders an natural disaters. Why do we have them anyways? It takes peoples lives every time whether it's few or many lives it happens, but why? I can understand the change in weather, but why earthquakes? Why things that can cause so much damage to the earth? How many more cracks can the earth take till somehow it breaks apart? or sinks into the oceans itself? The moon even has quakes. Why though? No man lives there..Will the moon break apart an if so, will we be the first to feel it's destructive power?

Human in-fighting isn't anything special. It's because we're animals and other animals do it too. It's just alot worse for us because we can do it on such grander and more devastating scales. It's not in our nature to kill each other so much as killing is an intrinsic part of life. Naturally, as a intelligent race of tool users, we found some nasty ways to incorporate this into our lives...

As for Earthquakes, that's just the Earth's plates shifting around. It doesn't do any damage, really. Not that endangers the Earth anyways. It's just the Earth doing it's thing. Nothing to worry 'bout unless you get caught in one.