Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:34 pm
could you clearify though, that the mistreatment of the pup isn't right and that you don't side with the mindless fools who did this dispickable deed.
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Figarou wrote:Renorei wrote:And that's even assuming that the video is real.
Ooooooookaaaaaay
Why would they even bother making that type of video? Was that Marine looking for an excuse to get back home? To get kicked out? Throwing a puppy MIGHT just do it. But at the same time....piss off so many Americans.
Figarou wrote:Would YOU pick up a dead puppy and consider it being cute? I wouldn't go near the thing!! If it was fake....then he probably had a stuffed animal. Not a dead one.Renorei wrote:If you watch the video without the sound, it seems to me like the puppy was already dead. Think about it: it doesn't move...AT ALL...when he's holding it by the scruff of the neck. Also, there's one moment a few seconds before he throws it that the body looks quite lopsided...the way a body looks when it's been lying dead on its side for a while. I'm a dog breeder and I've held a lot of puppies by the scruffs of their necks. They don't just hang there. They squirm and make noises.
Furthermore, what are the odds of finding a LIVE puppy out in the middle of the searing hot desert? Not too good. It's much more likely that you'd find a dead one. A puppy couldn't live long in that heat without water.
We care about HUMAN bodies, yeah. But everybody has a different standard as to what's appropriate for animal bodies. Like I said, I grew up on a farm. When an animal died (which was fairly often, considering the number of animals we had) we didn't bury it. We went and put it out in the field or the forest. And yeah, every now and then (if the dead animal was small enough) we'd chuck it. I grew up that way, so I'm used to it. Maybe that marine has a similar background?Figarou wrote:Then why do we burry our dead? Why not let them rot on the side of the road. Oh wait....we don't because we are civilized human beings!! We DO care EVEN after death.Renorei wrote:Throwing a live puppy off a cliff is reprehensible, I agree...but a dead one? Who cares? Maybe it's just me, but I feel no reverence for dead bodies. It's just an empty container.
True. But the fact that we'll eventually be in another pointless war, and the fact that we'll all die someday anyway, doesn't justify continuing to stay in THIS pointless war.Figarou wrote:All wars are pointless. Even if the war in Iraq ends...another will start up somewhere and we'll get involved. We are ALL innocent people. Innocent until someone takes away our life or loved ones. It could be that drunk driver. That suicidal maniac that decides to take students lives before his own. That robber that killed several people over a pack of smokes. The people who decided to ram a passenger jet into a crowded building!!Renorei wrote:So stop going apesh*t over this, guys. If you want to get mad over something, get mad about the fact that our soldiers are dying in a pointless war and slaughtering innocent people.
We're living in constant fear. You may never know if a trip to the grocery store will be your last.
Of course. If he did indeed kill a live puppy for no reason, then that is truly despicable. I am not in the puppy killer's corner, if he actually killed a puppy...however, despite the fact that I do not agree with his actions, I still don't think the outrage that is being directed towards him is justifiable. There are blogs all over the internet, buzzing with this guy's FULL NAME. Imagine how much hate mail, how many deaththreats, how many nasty phone calls he's going to get. His house or vehicle could be severely vandalized, and his family could be threatened. Somebody could actually get hurt. More human suffering is the last thing we need.Blue-eyes in the dark wrote:could you clearify though, that the mistreatment of the pup isn't right and that you don't side with the mindless fools who did this dispickable deed.
When I first saw it, it made the person look like an evil monster, being a Marine has nothing to do with it, good and bad people can be anywhere, the actions of a few really should not reflect everyone in the same group, too bad it does for many.IF it's a fake, then I'm saying that someone else got hold of the footage, edited in the yipping noises, in the hopes of making our troops look bad.
If someone throws a living animal off a cliff, they deserve every bit of scorn they get, however, no one should threaten is family, that is where the hate crosses the line, they have nothing to do with his actions.I still don't think the outrage that is being directed towards him is justifiable.
Depends on what you do, most people do not throw living (if a real video) animal off of cliffs.Sometimes people do cruel and stupid things. But that doesn't justify thousands of people ganging up on him.
Doubtful that such a person could be remorseful about such a planed out action, you would not do it in the first place. (Based on it being a real video)In all honesty, if that video is real...I'm sure this guy feels pretty remorseful right now anyway.
Yes...I know I could die of a heart attack at any time now. Maybe I could die laughing.alphanubilus wrote:And tomorrow you could die of a heart attack trip and fall breaking your neck... Death is always just a hop skip, jump away. You could die numerous ways without the aide of a crazed fiend. Should we live in fear though. Absolutely not. Death is just as much a part of life as birth. You live your life the best you can, and then when your time comes it is going to come regardless.
What I'd like to know is......why make that video? If it is an edited video...then where is the original?Terastas wrote: And obviously, just because it's on camera doesn't mean it's true. However, to the contrary, just because it's on camera doesn't mean it isn't true either. You can support the troops without condoning this kind of behavior, but a lot of people don't understand that and were too happy to declare this a work of editing. Whether or not this is real has yet to be determined.
Renorei wrote: Uh, I grew up on a farm. I picked up dead animals ALL the time.
I agree with you...for me, the actions of one Marine do not influence my sentiments towards all Marines. But, I made that comment based on all the nasty things I've read about this video all over the internet--tons of people are complaining about the military as a whole, not just THIS guy.Xiroteus wrote:When I first saw it, it made the person look like an evil monster, being a Marine has nothing to do with it, good and bad people can be anywhere, the actions of a few really should not reflect everyone in the same group, too bad it does for many.IF it's a fake, then I'm saying that someone else got hold of the footage, edited in the yipping noises, in the hopes of making our troops look bad.
I disagree. Though I hate animal cruelty, throwing a single puppy off a cliff is really not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things. He doesn't deserve national and international scorn.Xiroteus wrote:If someone throws a living animal off a cliff, they deserve every bit of scorn they get, however, no one should threaten is family, that is where the hate crosses the line, they have nothing to do with his actions.I still don't think the outrage that is being directed towards him is justifiable.
Again, it's not that big of a deal. It's cruel and horrible, yes, but there are much bigger fish to worry about (in terms of cruelty). Think about the SCOPE of things...all over the world, people are slaughtering each other over the pettiest of things, children are dying of AIDS and starvation, etc. Killing a puppy doesn't hold a candle to those things.Xiroteus wrote:Depends on what you do, most people do not throw living (if a real video) animal off of cliffs.Sometimes people do cruel and stupid things. But that doesn't justify thousands of people ganging up on him.
You think it was planned out? I doubt that. If the video is real, it was more than likely almost completely spontaneous. Some people do stupid things on the spur of the moment, and then regret them horribly later.Xiroteus wrote:Doubtful that such a person could be remorseful about such a planed out action, you would not do it in the first place. (Based on it being a real video)In all honesty, if that video is real...I'm sure this guy feels pretty remorseful right now anyway.
Anyone can use poor judgment, there are some actions that cannot be overlooked as easy as others.
I know, I am not surprised there are thousands of people blaming the entire Marines based on a few people actions, do not know why people think that is an accurate depiction of an entire group of people, quite closed minded of them.I agree with you...for me, the actions of one Marine do not influence my sentiments towards all Marines. But, I made that comment based on all the nasty things I've read about this video all over the internet--tons of people are complaining about the military as a whole, not just THIS guy.
Big deal to me as is all animal cruelty, as well as cruelty to innocent humans, I am strongly against all who harm the innocent human or animal and both will always be a big deal in terms of importance for me. If this guy has really thrown a living dog over a cliff, I would never have anything to do with such a person, somethings cannot be over looked.I disagree. Though I hate animal cruelty, throwing a single puppy off a cliff is really not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things. He doesn't deserve national and international scorn. Again, it's not that big of a deal. It's cruel and horrible, yes, but there are much bigger fish to worry about (in terms of cruelty). Think about the SCOPE of things...all over the world, people are slaughtering each other over the pettiest of things, children are dying of AIDS and starvation, etc. Killing a puppy doesn't hold a candle to those things.
Planed out in the since that they thought about for a few minutes, if the puppy was alive (which is questionable at this time) it goes far beyond a stupid action on the spur of the moment, good people could never do such a thing, if they regret their actions later, at least then they show some sings of having a heart, yet still question how they could do so in the first place.You think it was planned out? I doubt that. If the video is real, it was more than likely almost completely spontaneous. Some people do stupid things on the spur of the moment, and then regret them horribly later.
New level?Figarou wrote:ok....after doing some research...I think I know whats going on.
We all know about car bombings, right? Well...I think the Iraqi has gone to a new level. They place bombs inside the carcass of dead animals.
Here is a dead dog with an IED already inside it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd4_1193093624
and another
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b52_1191364400
So....if that puppy was already dead, then that Marine had the right idea of disposing it.
Well, if it's fake, the reasons for such have already been covered. If it's authentic, however, the solution as to why they would make a video could be the same reasons they threw a puppy off a cliff in the first place: a mix of cruelty and stupidity. Some people aren't satisfied with acts of cruelty and/or stupidity; they want a video so they can relive the moment. It's not as uncommon as you think. I've seen more than one instance where a bunch of dumb kids went joyriding pelting pedestrians with paint ball pellets while videotaping it and had their tapes used against them in court. Boxed hunts are another frequent victim of such stupidity; the typical clients of illegal hunts generally expect to get a lot of trophies, so it's common for them to videotape their own crimes in action too.Figarou wrote:What I'd like to know is......why make that video? If it is an edited video...then where is the original?
not so new fig, the newest tactic right now is to poison the medical supplies and place time or remote bombs on unsuspecting civilian cars and then blow them up while they are driving aroundFigarou wrote:ok....after doing some research...I think I know whats going on.
We all know about car bombings, right? Well...I think the Iraqi has gone to a new level. They place bombs inside the carcass of dead animals.
Here is a dead dog with an IED already inside it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd4_1193093624
and another
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b52_1191364400
So....if that puppy was already dead, then that Marine had the right idea of disposing it.
Quoted for truth.Howlitzer wrote:And yeah, I know a couple people with enough of a warped sense of humor to do that to an already dead animal, while at the same time absolutely NOT being the type of person to mistreat a live animal in any way.
Aki wrote: New level?
Fig, that old. That's Vietnam level of old at least.
Hell, the Soviets one-upped the Vietnamese before that. They had living dog-mines. Trained to look for food under tanks and other armored vehicles, they were starved and then set loose with bombs strapped to them - and detonated when they dove under a tank in search of food.
Terastas wrote:Well, if it's fake, the reasons for such have already been covered. If it's authentic, however, the solution as to why they would make a video could be the same reasons they threw a puppy off a cliff in the first place: a mix of cruelty and stupidity. Some people aren't satisfied with acts of cruelty and/or stupidity; they want a video so they can relive the moment. It's not as uncommon as you think. I've seen more than one instance where a bunch of dumb kids went joyriding pelting pedestrians with paint ball pellets while videotaping it and had their tapes used against them in court. Boxed hunts are another frequent victim of such stupidity; the typical clients of illegal hunts generally expect to get a lot of trophies, so it's common for them to videotape their own crimes in action too.Figarou wrote:What I'd like to know is......why make that video? If it is an edited video...then where is the original?
And regarding the authenticity of the tape, or whether or not the puppy was still alive at the time, that's indeterminable. The fact that they were holding the puppy by his neck means nothing. The back of the neck is the dog's scruff; it's where the mother dog would have held that puppy by. Yes, the puppy wasn't moving, but that's because the natural reaction to getting picked up that way is to go limp.
So that's it: Back to start with no solid evidence to prove that this is real or faked. Man, who would've thought the day would come where I'd be the one saying "Keep it civil everyone" over and over again.
If there was a bomb in the puppy, they would have done the one of two things they do with all the bombs they come across: Disarm it, or detonate it. You don't just throw a bomb away and forget about it; until it either goes off or is safely disabled, it's still a risk.Howlitzer wrote:but if there was even the possibility of a bomb being hidden inside the thing, I can see what may have been going on in there...
These are people that will strap a bomb to other human beings; I'd say the rules of warfare are well out the window for them. However, just because the enemy is planting IEDs and sending suicide bombers into coffee shops does not mean the U.S. army does not have to play by the rules either. These people are the enemy because of the way they conduct warfare.Howlitzer wrote:Also, about land mines being banned...that makes sense. But the terrorists we're dealing with, do you honestly think they're going to respect that ban?