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Lupin wrote:

Vicious wrote:There are things we want, and things we need.

We don't need all we have, in general. It pollutes us.
Maybe a person doesn't want out, but they need out.

I find that most people have no idea what they really need.

What I need is a vacation.

Figarou wrote:

Lupin wrote:

Vicious wrote:There are things we want, and things we need.

We don't need all we have, in general. It pollutes us.
Maybe a person doesn't want out, but they need out.

I find that most people have no idea what they really need.

What I need is a vacation.

I need to put my laptop away and go to sleep. That's not happening soon, however.

Vilkacis wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:Hey Figarou did you make that drawing on your avatar

No, LoboLEO made that.

-- Vilkacis

Hehe. Too bad I don't have any money, I could use a cool avatar.

ask and aritst you knwo or do it yourself, then.

Lupin wrote:

Vicious wrote:There are things we want, and things we need.

We don't need all we have, in general. It pollutes us.
Maybe a person doesn't want out, but they need out.

I find that most people have no idea what they really need.

"...I want it, I need it, and you have it, and you won't give it to me!
"And it's typical!
"It's typical!
"It's typical!
"It's typical!
"Typical!
"Yes, I said "typical."
"The whole mortal meatsack comes complete with blood, stink, and bile...
"Not now, Mommy's talking!
"And all these proteins are writhing, wriggling, worming, squirming, clowning and cavorting...
"And you have to just sit down on your tuffet and make this whole birthing thing STOOOOOOOOP"

oooook

Vicious wrote:There are things we want, and things we need.

We don't need all we have, in general. It pollutes us.
Maybe a person doesn't want out, but they need out.

The only people that really get polluted, I find, are people that want things that can't be bought (family, happiness, enlightenment, immortality, etc.) but think something with a price tag is what they need to obtain it.

My father, for example, wants to be enlightened; problem is that he looks for it at Borders, which is probably where he got those "Zen on the Run" tapes (not the real product name, but that's what I think of them as).

I also know a lot of people, for example, that apparently would rather believe their kids have ADD than accept that being valedictorian isn't in their plans for the future.

And the greatest financial and emotional disaster imaginable: The pursuit of the perfect house, which compels people to buy expensive crap that they don't need but feel they do because everyone else has one, and inevitably makes one neighbor enemies with another because one of them has a greener lawn.

It's when people don't want something but are told that their less of a person because they don't have it. I'll give you two classic examples from my days in Junior High, and I'm not telling these to vent -- I think their hilarious:

One kid went around the entire school and told well over a hundred different people that I was on welfare. His evidence: I didn't have cable TV, and everyone knows that everyone has at least one or the other.

And the one that still baffles me to this day (why did this kid have to be blonde?), the guy that took time out of his life to inform me how great it was that he had a TV that let him watch fifty channels at once.
So I asked him: "How do you watch fifty channels at once? Isn't that confusing?"
He paused for a long time, then said: "No. You're not paying attention. You're just looking at it."
To which I inquired: "Well couldn't you do the same thing with just one channel?"
He paused for a long time, then said: "No. You can do it with fifty."

That is when people start forsaking humanity. This kid had a feature installed on his TV reserved specifically for vegging out and letting your mind rot, and apparently I was less of a person because I didn't have it. That's when people shun society -- when you know you don't need something (a big house, the biggest SUV, a huge Abercrombie logo on your chest), but everyone else says you should have it or makes fun of you because you don't.

On the one hand, I do appreciate being able to vegge out from time to time...
But watching 50 channels at the same time?
What's the sound like?
Even I find that to be of questionable value.
And my house doesn't have cable, either: What's the big deal about not having cable, anyhow? I don't want to watch reality-docudramas about Paris Hilton throwing temper tantrums because someone tried to ring Tinker Bell, or how Britney Spears is having morning sickeningness, or celebrity shows featuring stripteasing chefs.

Terastas wrote:And the one that still baffles me to this day (why did this kid have to be blonde?), the guy that took time out of his life to inform me how great it was that he had a TV that let him watch fifty channels at once.

I had a TV tuner card with a feature like that. It divided the window up into a grid, and flipped through all of the channels, displaying each one in a seperate box. It was fun for about 5 minutes.

I did the "I want all of humanity to die" thing about fourteen years ago, back when my story Lycanthrope was around maybe version 15 or so. I thought very recently about those days and how I felt when I worked on Lycanthrope II: Revelations, and its themes dealt very heavily with my feelings about human arrogance.

But, I've since become much more optimistic about the human potential.

I've learned to think of humans not as dumb zombies, but instead as a teenage species. Humans in species childhood believed in magic. They're now facing the soul-searching adulescence, when they discover that what they thought was Santa was instead their parents, and what they thought was God painting the night sky was instead collosal fusion reactions of massive amounts of hydrogen and helium at great distances. Now, having learned a few things, humans think they know everything and want their independence from their parents, but aren't allowed to drive yet, because their parents won't let them. (Physics of the universe is such that FTL travel seems impossible, and designing interstellar craft is technologically imaginable but prohibitively expensive--kind of like the teenager trying to get his or her first job, but needing experience.)

Teenagers at some point decide their parents don't really care about them, or just want to control them. That's the "humans versus nature" and "humans are not animals" notions. As humans get older and wiser, perhaps these ideas will die down. We just need to keep this species from committing suicide--its starting to sound awefully depressed.

Worse yet, humanity could be a teenage pregnancy that gives birth to a child prodigy. If artificial intelligence evolves the way I think it could, we could have by the end of the century something smarter than us, and more well-adapted to many of the things we want to do, like interstellar travel. (Since machines really aren't animals, they don't need oxygen, water, or food--just a good power supply.) I'm not sure how humans will feel about getting advice from a superior intellect. Most people today are afraid of the idea of machines being smarter than humans. I for one am praying for it.

But, I think in the long run things will work out. We're just at a very stressful moment in human evoluton. Unfortunately, I think we may have been born a little too early to benefit from the wisdom and knowledge that humans will attain as an adult citizen of the universe. We'll have to die of old age--quite possibly only a few centuries or even decades before they cure it. (I've considered looking into cryonics and hoping that future generations are both knowledgeable enough to reconstruct information from neural pathways and patient enough to put up with someone born and raised in humanity's "I didn't ask to be evolved" days.)

Lupin wrote:

Terastas wrote:And the one that still baffles me to this day (why did this kid have to be blonde?), the guy that took time out of his life to inform me how great it was that he had a TV that let him watch fifty channels at once.

I had a TV tuner card with a feature like that. It divided the window up into a grid, and flipped through all of the channels, displaying each one in a seperate box. It was fun for about 5 minutes.

I could probably make an argument for split-screen TVs, like in the unlikely event that a weather report takes place the same time as the nightly lottery numbers, but... Fifty channels at once... That strikes me as a feature someone would just get for the sake of having one more feature. And the only thing that bothered me more than the nature of the feature was the fact that he not only thought it was the greatest thing in the world, but that I was somehow less of a person because my TV didn't (pst! Terry's still channel surfing! How primitive!).

So anyway, like I said: that's when people start considering becomming hermits. There's basically three things you can do under that kind of pressure: tell them to go screw themselves and only spend money on what you absolutely want or need, work your a** off to get it all, or give up and become a hermit, or in this case, a wolf.

Yeah. just about everyone i know at school has a cell phone and a cd-player. i have neither and i'm just fine. it's really wasteful.

Shadowblaze wrote:Yeah. just about everyone i know at school has a cell phone and a cd-player. i have neither and i'm just fine. it's really wasteful.

I learned a very important fact about my cell phone: you don't have to anwser it every time it rings. People aren't going to die if the call goes to voicemail (unless you're my mother, but she is a nurse and that's different.) My phone is here for my convienence.

Lupin wrote:I learned a very important fact about my cell phone: you don't have to anwser it every time it rings. People aren't going to die if the call goes to voicemail (unless you're my mother, but she is a nurse and that's different.) My phone is here for my convienence.

*nods* That's one of the few things that I got suckered into, and I could only consider it halfway practical because it means I don't need a phone line at my apartment. My mother suckered me in with the "heaven forbid anything should happen to you" nonsense about me being stranded on the highway (I don't have a car) or if she has an accident and needs to reach me (call a doctor or the fire department instead of me. I'm 80 miles away -- what the hell can I do?). Now the only calls I get on it are her telling us to pray that her real estate deals go through.

And worse yet, three months after I got it, everybody either had one of those loud obnoxious walkie-talkies or an even more loud and obnoxious ringtone (my brother's lis the Law & Order theme). Didn't take me long to become Byzantine-man again, did it?

Terastas wrote: And worse yet, three months after I got it, everybody either had one of those loud obnoxious walkie-talkies or an even more loud and obnoxious ringtone (my brother's lis the Law & Order theme). Didn't take me long to become Byzantine-man again, did it?

How'd that song go, again?
...

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Terastas wrote:And worse yet, three months after I got it, everybody either had one of those loud obnoxious walkie-talkies or an even more loud and obnoxious ringtone (my brother's lis the Law & Order theme). Didn't take me long to become Byzantine-man again, did it?

Yeah, I'm in with Nextell. IT means that I don't have to go to a phone to answer a page. The pager is required by work so I figure, "why not". We got a discount through work and it's an interesting tech toy.

Granted, people don't have to use the speaker... If you turn it off the direct connect works through the earpiece like a regular phone call and is sometimes easier to hear.

Trot, the less-annoying (sometimes), fox... } ; ]

Vicious wrote:There are things we want, and things we need.

We don't need all we have, in general. It pollutes us.
Maybe a person doesn't want out, but they need out.

Not really.

Quite apparently you stroll on over and act as though the all guru thing of knowledge and thought. No, you need to sit down, get over yout stupid human hating and other things, and take the time to actully, lets see, use some rational thought and >THINK<. Don't make assumptions on human behavior, what we need or want, when your the one who needs to correct their own behavior.

Your just going to screw yourself over one day like this.

Shadowblaze wrote:Yeah. just about everyone i know at school has a cell phone and a cd-player. i have neither and i'm just fine. it's really wasteful.

he he! I'm glad this went off topic!!!

Nobody had a cell phone when I was going to school. When you wanted to place a call, you have to use the pay phone. The chances of finding one without someone already on it is very slim.

And the only thing that bothers me more than the people that say I need it? The people that thinks it makes them special and feel a need to broadcast it.

For some reason, it seems like the more often warnings are made to turn off all cell phones, the more likely it is that somebody's cell phone in the classroom/audience/whatever, and the more cheesy and annoying the ring tone, the more likely it will be theres. One girl in my sociology class last year, for example had the Inspector Gadget ringtone. In four months, she never figured out what "turn it off" means, and all of her friends apparently figured out that right in the middle of class was the best time to call her.

And while I laugh at most of them, this is the one that still peeves me: At the one year of prep school I attended, it was a common practice for students with new cars to leave their headlights on so it would be announced over the intercom.

"To the owner of the black Mercedez and the silver BMW Z3 both in the Junior lot, your headlights are on. (mutters) The juniors are doing well..."

Terastas wrote: And while I laugh at most of them, this is the one that still peeves me: At the one year of prep school I attended, it was a common practice for students with new cars to leave their headlights on so it would be announced over the intercom.

"To the owner of the black Mercedez and the silver BMW Z3 both in the Junior lot, your headlights are on. (mutters) The juniors are doing well..."

HUH?

I wouldn't risk having a dead battery just to have my car annouced over the intercom. sheesh!!

I know. Stupid, isn't it?

And it's crap like that which eventually gives us all our own doubts in humanity. It wouldn't be the deciding factor, but a werewolf that heard "to the owner of the Mercedez, your lights are on" and then saw one of his classmates leave his desk and announce to the class "Sorry I'll be right back" with a s***-eatin' grin on his face... Well, he wouldn't become a wolf and never revert back that very night, but it might suddenly seem like more of an option than it would otherwise.

Yeah- it would probably be more likely after seeing something you consider REALLY stupid, whatever that happends to be.

Terastas wrote:I know. Stupid, isn't it?

And it's crap like that which eventually gives us all our own doubts in humanity. It wouldn't be the deciding factor, but a werewolf that heard "to the owner of the Mercedez, your lights are on" and then saw one of his classmates leave his desk and announce to the class "Sorry I'll be right back" with a s***-eatin' grin on his face... Well, he wouldn't become a wolf and never revert back that very night, but it might suddenly seem like more of an option than it would otherwise.

On the bright side, think of the mess that guy would make were he to change while wearing his good clothing, and in his new Mercedes...

My thoughts on the matter, if you consider how the second law of thermodynamics plays into the biological principles of viral genetics, is that...

(music--deedlee deedle-oo deedle-oo-da-dee! deedlee deedle-oo deedle-oo-da-dee!)

Hello? Oh, Hi. I'm on The Pack forum. It's a werewolf board. A WEREWOLF BOARD! ...YES... ...YES... Yeah. You know that movie, "Freeborn"? The one with the werewolves? OK. I'll call you back!

Anyway, when you consider the philosophical principles of continuity versus discontinuity, and the psychological impact that shapeshifting must entail...

(music--deedlee deedle-oo deedle-oo-da-dee! deedlee deedle-oo deedle-oo-da-dee!)

Hello! Yes... I'm on that werewolf board... We're talking about humans... Yes... Yes... OK, I'll ask him... And, it's BROWNRIGG, NOT BROWNING OR BROWNIAN.

My friend wants to know if there's a part he could play; he does those balloon animals.

Have you taken your lithium dibromide today, friend Scott?