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Yeah, but other changes to the skull seem to fake to me...

Yes I'm a perfectionist.

Lupin wrote:

Morkulv wrote:I'd like to see the jaw stretch out more, when in TF. But not make a wolf-snout, because that will look silly, believe me. So just a subtile snout.

Pseronally I think that would make it look more like a bear than a wolf.

Like the one in "Cursed."

Bleh!!!

I never saw Cursed, so I can't say if thats positive or not.

Well, the whole idea of a werewolf is pretty fake to begin with. So I say we should focus on what looks good aesthetically, and not so much what would be best from a scientific point of view.

Excelsia wrote:Well, the whole idea of a werewolf is pretty fake to begin with. So I say we should focus on what looks good aesthetically, and not so much what would be best from a scientific point of view.

Actually it isn't. Sinds we are all mammals, every 'change' can happen. If we were talking about a were-reptile, I would have agreed with you. And the whole scientific point of view just makes me tired, I just like to discuss about what people think is realistic, not what scientists think.

Being a scientist myself, I'm a bit slanted in favor of scientific opinions. But, I don't think my bias undermines my reasoning.

Reptiles vs. mammals: Reptiles are more distant genetically, but it's all relative. If you're going out on a limb to suggest werewolves, then were-reptiles are simply out on a bigger and higher limb of the same kind of tree. Werelizards pose bigger problems, particularly in terms of preserving brain structure and memories between forms. But, it's not as big a jump from werewolves to werelizards as it is from where we are now to werewolves.

Aesthetics versus appealing to science: The consensus leans in favor of the idea that the two are not in opposition, and that appealing to science will favor aesthetics. Nature favors functionality and symmetry, and so does our sense of aesthetics. We have an easier time accepting shifting homologous structures--that is, human legs forming wolf hind legs, as opposed to growing a wolf head out of one's [bleep]. Horror elements, like slime, melting into a puddle, or turning monstrously huge and ugly with deformed limbs, fly in the face of evolutionary practicality. In the case of a species created--be it by magic, alien experiments, or "intelligent design," it would be far easier to do so in a manner that works with natural elements already there than concocting a lot of stuff that Hollywood does for shock value.

Granted, I know you're talking more about subtle stuff and tweaking a consensus design, rather than continuing the argument against the slathering monster. By this point, we've gone beyond beating a dead horse and into the realm of flogging the fossilized remains of an eohippus.

Oh, and there's just one more thing (as Columbo always says.) Since werewolves are shapeshifters, the details of whether their faces are strictly wolf or intermixed with human elements should be subject to some individualistic whim--at least, once they get control.

Here are some pictures that further elaborate on my thoughts about what werewolf heads should look like:

http://fanart.lionking.org/Artists/Sara ... venCut.jpg
http://fanart.nala.ru/details.php?image ... 39e7764260

(Sorry about the second one being cartoony). You will notice that, although both heads definitely remind one of wolves, they don't look exactly like a real wolf's head. They're sort of a mix between a wolf and some kind of uber canine. I think they both look pretty good. I'm not sure if I agree 100 percent on the neck placement, but I definitely like the heads themselves.

I'm still going to wait and see what Tim Albee has to show us. I have the feeling we won't be disappointed.

Figarou wrote:I'm still going to wait and see what Tim Albee has to show us. I have the feeling we won't be disappointed.

Same here fig, I have a confident feeling in Tim Albee with his werewolf effects, if they follow our instruction then nothing should go wrong..........hopefully.

same here.
I have a genreal Idea what the heads should look like. But to honest. It's up the air. I say for a more primitive look, but that just me.

Figarou wrote:I'm still going to wait and see what Tim Albee has to show us. I have the feeling we won't be disappointed.

Yeah, his stuff looks good.

Hey now. It's not that I don't have faith in Tim Albee. I just like further clarifying my views on what werewolves should look like. Most likely, TA already knows what he is going to do. But, just in case he doesn't, I am going to continue furnishing images and offering my opinions on the off-chance that one of them is an inspiration.

Also, this site must ultimately grow into a site that is used as a resource for other werewolf novelists or movie makers, otherwise it will merely die when Freeborn comes out. Keeping them in mind, I intend to continue posting my thoughts about werewolves in any thread I feel compelled to post in. The majority of my comments are not specifically intended for Freeborn, but rather for werewolves in general, so I think others besides TA and AB may find them useful. I encourage the rest of you to continue posting your thoughts if you have anything to say about anything to do with werewolves.

Excelsia wrote:Here are some pictures that further elaborate on my thoughts about what werewolf heads should look like:

http://fanart.lionking.org/Artists/Sara ... venCut.jpg
http://fanart.nala.ru/details.php?image ... 39e7764260

(Sorry about the second one being cartoony). You will notice that, although both heads definitely remind one of wolves, they don't look exactly like a real wolf's head. They're sort of a mix between a wolf and some kind of uber canine. I think they both look pretty good. I'm not sure if I agree 100 percent on the neck placement, but I definitely like the heads themselves.

The art looks cool. But like 'doodles said, there is a problem with the skull. When a human transforms into a werewolf, the brain will be crushed, and will probably not return to his original state. So he will be retarded as a werewolf.

*topic kick*

Anyone seen this allready?

http://www.transfur.com/artwork/artists ... skulls.jpg

(art by J-Wolf)

Morkulv wrote:

Excelsia wrote:Here are some pictures that further elaborate on my thoughts about what werewolf heads should look like:

http://fanart.lionking.org/Artists/Sara ... venCut.jpg
http://fanart.nala.ru/details.php?image ... 39e7764260

(Sorry about the second one being cartoony). You will notice that, although both heads definitely remind one of wolves, they don't look exactly like a real wolf's head. They're sort of a mix between a wolf and some kind of uber canine. I think they both look pretty good. I'm not sure if I agree 100 percent on the neck placement, but I definitely like the heads themselves.

The art looks cool. But like 'doodles said, there is a problem with the skull. When a human transforms into a werewolf, the brain will be crushed, and will probably not return to his original state. So he will be retarded as a werewolf.

We mustn't forget to take into consideration the fact that humans are larger than wolves. When a wolfish head grows onto a humanoid body (actually the body should be a bit bigger than the average human), the head will have to be larger in order to look normal on the body. In short, because the wolf head will be larger than a regular wolf head, there should be enough room for the brain to be accomodated.

check out the movie Dog Soldiers and look atthat werewolf.. i LOVE the head... its perfect!

In my opinion, we need a wolf that LOOKS LIKE A WOLF. Not a hairless-faced-no-muzzle-5-inch-fanged-body-builder. What I think:
Hunched (in anthro state): Yes, fairly.
Huge muscles: NO. Look at a wolf, they are strong, but lean and fairly wirey, not body builder. It also depends on what they look like in Human form, And I would have a range of medium-sized muscles to skiny/wirey/almost foxlike. I think the head needs to be wolf shaped, and NEEDS a long muzzle. The only change I would do on the muzzle, would be that some or all of them could have (not too long) side sabre/snaggle fangs, that protrude when mouth is closed. I think if the were is large enough, there is enough room for the brain...Something else is, to have a very large wereform, OR very large muscles, he/she would need to eat a LOT prior to/maybe even during the early stages of the changing process. I think they would go into almost a feeding frenzy (not attacking humans, but eating a lot, especially meat) right before the change. As for my absolute favorite werewolf look, it would have to be this style:

http://goldenwolfen.com/galleries/2004/scenting.jpg

Or this

http://goldenwolfen.com/galleries/2004/ ... enight.jpg

As for telling characters apart: They don't need human faces, or lack of fur. (In my opinion, a bald faced were would be the absolute worst choice...) You tell them apart by: Body Build, Fur color/unique markings, Eye color, Ear/tail/snaggle fang size (there would be slight variation in this), Jewelwry/decorations. If done right, every character could be wolflike, but easily distinguishable...

Excelsia wrote:

Morkulv wrote:

Excelsia wrote:Here are some pictures that further elaborate on my thoughts about what werewolf heads should look like:

http://fanart.lionking.org/Artists/Sara ... venCut.jpg
http://fanart.nala.ru/details.php?image ... 39e7764260

(Sorry about the second one being cartoony). You will notice that, although both heads definitely remind one of wolves, they don't look exactly like a real wolf's head. They're sort of a mix between a wolf and some kind of uber canine. I think they both look pretty good. I'm not sure if I agree 100 percent on the neck placement, but I definitely like the heads themselves.

The art looks cool. But like 'doodles said, there is a problem with the skull. When a human transforms into a werewolf, the brain will be crushed, and will probably not return to his original state. So he will be retarded as a werewolf.

We mustn't forget to take into consideration the fact that humans are larger than wolves. When a wolfish head grows onto a humanoid body (actually the body should be a bit bigger than the average human), the head will have to be larger in order to look normal on the body. In short, because the wolf head will be larger than a regular wolf head, there should be enough room for the brain to be accomodated.

Well said. A typical canine skull would be inefficient for the human brain, but werewolves are not typical canines, especially assuming they are typically six to eight feet tall.

ABOUT THE SKULL-SHIFT-AFFECTING-BRAIN-SIZE-ISSUE: The part of your brain that thinks is a thin layer on the outside. Most of the sfuff on the inside isn't really good for anything...Now think: if the matter in the middle was redistributed to somewhere else, the outside layer could be scrunched up with way more folds, but still in tact. THEREFORE: the brain size of a shapeshifter could be reduced tremendiously, without damaging the thought processes, or lowering inteligence. It's true, yay *Still has a brain*

Perhaps now woudl be an appropriate time to point out that we know almost nothing about the workings of the brain, and most of what we do is just informed speculation.

Well actually we do, we are completely positive that the brain is the center of most, if not all intelligent thoughts.

Kurayami_Ookami wrote: Huge muscles: NO. Look at a wolf, they are strong, but lean and fairly wirey, not body builder. It also depends on what they look like in Human form, And I would have a range of medium-sized muscles to skiny/wirey/almost foxlike.

Disagree. But, I agree with pretty much everything else you've said.

Akela wrote:Well actually we do, we are completely positive that the brain is the center of most, if not all intelligent thoughts.

Of course. But past that, we have little.

Kurayami_Ookami wrote:ABOUT THE SKULL-SHIFT-AFFECTING-BRAIN-SIZE-ISSUE: The part of your brain that thinks is a thin layer on the outside. Most of the sfuff on the inside isn't really good for anything...

Anything except your autonomic functions.

That, and the white matter consists of long axons, with sheath cells surrounding them. The trick is compacting all of that down,and doing it in a manner that is smooth and symmetric within a few millimeters, so that nothing gets pinched off or squeezed out. If it isn't done exactly right, you can expect seizures, permanant brain damage, or death.

I consider shifting brain size to be one of the leading risks for sudden death that lycanthropy would entail.