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Excelsia wrote:Also, males and females get different rushes of hormones during puberty, guys get testosterone, and girls get estrogen. I think that saying the virus is activated by BOTH of these hormones (since there are male and female werewolves) is stretching it a bit.

Estrogen is actually a group of hormones. One of them, estradiol, is actually produced from testosterone. They're pretty chemically similar. I don't really see it being too much of a stretch.

Does anyone know offhand of any viruses that are activated at puberty?

Excelsia wrote:Does anyone know offhand of any viruses that are activated at puberty?

Mononucleosis?

My 2 cents:

IF the virus is dormant in kids ( my personal prefereence );

a ) A surge of hormones could trigger a chnage of the dormancey. But I see it more as teh surge of bio-chemical imbalance.

Its not JUST hormones that are floating throughout teh system, though they tend to trigger other chmeical imabalnces. there are tons of other natural chemicals being produce, or forced not to be produced during this period of time.

This is one reason why so many teens suffer through bouts of depression and aniety. Its a chemical imbalance in teh brain, as the body readies itself for procreation.

So that soup of instability coul dvery well trigger the change, imo.

b ) ( Somethign I offered up before, elsewhere ) That at a certain age, an adult werewolf bites a "cubling" ( almost like its own cultural rite of passage in a way ), thus offering active viruses into the system. They could trigger a reaction that awakens the dormant viruses.

Seriously, though, I don't know of any viral disease that is "activated" by puberty.
However, there are viral diseases which have outbreaks induced by changes in hormonal levels, namely, Herpes types 1 and 2.

Apokryltaros wrote:Seriously, though, I don't know of any viral disease that is "activated" by puberty.
However, there are viral diseases which have outbreaks induced by changes in hormonal levels, namely, Herpes types 1 and 2.

This is one of the things I'm worried about. Nothing (to my knowledge) is 'activated' by puberty, so why should the WW virus be? As you stated, there are viruses which have outbreaks based on hormonal changes, but if we applied that to the werewolf that would mean their changing ability would vary with their hormones...I, for one, would prefer if hormones played no part in lycanthropy.

Excelsia wrote:

Apokryltaros wrote:Seriously, though, I don't know of any viral disease that is "activated" by puberty.
However, there are viral diseases which have outbreaks induced by changes in hormonal levels, namely, Herpes types 1 and 2.

This is one of the things I'm worried about. Nothing (to my knowledge) is 'activated' by puberty, so why should the WW virus be? As you stated, there are viruses which have outbreaks based on hormonal changes, but if we applied that to the werewolf that would mean their changing ability would vary with their hormones...I, for one, would prefer if hormones played no part in lycanthropy.

You do realize, though, that hormones ultimately control all aspects of the physiologies of all living things, including the regulation of hormones.
What do you suggest by lycanthropy not being hormonal?
I just find the idea of children or babies transforming into werewolves to be, at best, cartoony.

Excelsia wrote:but if we applied that to the werewolf that would mean their changing ability would vary with their hormones...

Well if they change in response to various emotions, it would already be tied into hormones. Things like epinephrine are released in the typical flight-or-fight response, triggering all sorts of changes in the body.

Lupin wrote:

Excelsia wrote:Also, males and females get different rushes of hormones during puberty, guys get testosterone, and girls get estrogen. I think that saying the virus is activated by BOTH of these hormones (since there are male and female werewolves) is stretching it a bit.

Estrogen is actually a group of hormones. One of them, estradiol, is actually produced from testosterone. They're pretty chemically similar. I don't really see it being too much of a stretch.

Actually, this is a common misperception. All three of the sex hormones (estrogen, testosterone and progesterone) exist in both males and females, just in different quantities. Futhermore, puberty itself is triggered by even more obscure hormones produced further "upstream" in the pituitary gland. You could say that the onset of being an active werewolf, as opposed to a latent werewolf, was triggered by any of these.

Apokryltaros wrote:Seriously, though, I don't know of any viral disease that is "activated" by puberty.
However, there are viral diseases which have outbreaks induced by changes in hormonal levels, namely, Herpes types 1 and 2.

There are some diseases, such as chicken pox, that affect adults and children in vastly different ways.

Apokryltaros wrote:

Excelsia wrote:

Apokryltaros wrote:Seriously, though, I don't know of any viral disease that is "activated" by puberty.
However, there are viral diseases which have outbreaks induced by changes in hormonal levels, namely, Herpes types 1 and 2.

This is one of the things I'm worried about. Nothing (to my knowledge) is 'activated' by puberty, so why should the WW virus be? As you stated, there are viruses which have outbreaks based on hormonal changes, but if we applied that to the werewolf that would mean their changing ability would vary with their hormones...I, for one, would prefer if hormones played no part in lycanthropy.

You do realize, though, that hormones ultimately control all aspects of the physiologies of all living things, including the regulation of hormones.
What do you suggest by lycanthropy not being hormonal?
I just find the idea of children or babies transforming into werewolves to be, at best, cartoony.

I just see no reason why Lycanthropy wouldn't be one of the many thousands of viruses that affect everyone of all ages, no matter what the hormone levels.

As far as it being cartoony...well, that probably has something to do with the fact that in werewolf lore, there are rarely any kid werewolves, so we aren't used to the idea.

There are valid arguments for either side of the coin. I'd rather lycanthropy be something that you have all your life, not just beginning at puberty. I just imagine it being a lot better for a werewolf if it was something that affected them their whole life and didn't just start happening when all the other weird s*** was happening to their bodies. I don't know, that's just my opinion. Ultimately, it all comes down to preference and my preference is the virus not taking effect at puberty.

Also, what about people with weird hormone issues, like guys with XXY, XYY, or metafemales? Would lycanthropy affect them the same way? It seems like there would be a lot of complications. Which is another reason why I'd prefer it to not begin based on hormones.

Jamie wrote:Actually, this is a common misperception. All three of the sex hormones (estrogen, testosterone and progesterone) exist in both males and females, just in different quantities. Futhermore, puberty itself is triggered by even more obscure hormones produced further "upstream" in the pituitary gland. You could say that the onset of being an active werewolf, as opposed to a latent werewolf, was triggered by any of these.

Hm? Estradiol is actually produced from testosterone. Here's a lovely little chart from wikipedia showing the two:

Lupin wrote:

Jamie wrote:Actually, this is a common misperception. All three of the sex hormones (estrogen, testosterone and progesterone) exist in both males and females, just in different quantities. Futhermore, puberty itself is triggered by even more obscure hormones produced further "upstream" in the pituitary gland. You could say that the onset of being an active werewolf, as opposed to a latent werewolf, was triggered by any of these.

Hm? Estradiol is actually produced from testosterone. Here's a lovely little chart from wikipedia showing the two:

Sorry, I wasn't talking about Estradiol when I mentioned the "misperception". I was talking about the idea that females ONLY have estrogen and males ONLY have testosterone, which was mentioned as a reason why a puberty-triggered change would only work for one gender.

Jamie wrote:Sorry, I wasn't talking about Estradiol when I mentioned the "misperception". I was talking about the idea that females ONLY have estrogen and males ONLY have testosterone, which was mentioned as a reason why a puberty-triggered change would only work for one gender.

Oh, yes. Both males and females have both sets of hormones. In fact testosterone itself is synthesized from a 'female' hormone. It's a very interconnected system.

I was aware that males and females both had testosterone and estrogen, but in ridiculously different quantities. I just wanted everyone to know that I knew that.

My point, by stating that, was that if in fact it was connected to one of these hormones is that one gender would be much 'better' werewolves than the other, if it was activated by only one of these hormones. But now this estradiol thing has made this point moot.

Excelsia wrote:I was aware that males and females both had testosterone and estrogen, but in ridiculously different quantities. I just wanted everyone to know that I knew that.

Thats true. All humans have breasts whether male or female. Testosterone prevents it from forming in males. A male without testosterone willl end up being a shemale.

Figarou wrote:

Excelsia wrote:I was aware that males and females both had testosterone and estrogen, but in ridiculously different quantities. I just wanted everyone to know that I knew that.

Thats true. All humans have breasts whether male or female. Testosterone prevents it from forming in males. A male without testosterone willl end up being a shemale.

I know a guy like that. It's rather sad, really.

I wouldn't mind being a metafemale. They have fertility issues, but the name just sounds so cool. "Hi, I'm a metafemale." Awesome.

Typically the common thread is attached to Innocence.

Most old-world lore have adults goign through the change because of a curse, or a bite ( possibly based on the Rabies eppidemic in some old world countires ).

*posnders*

Many of teh "witch" myths are based on temptation of power.

Many curse myths are based on someone doing something "wrong" or "bad" depending on the culture.

So kids typically don't show, because they are considered "the innocent". Thjose who wouldn't know any better.

Though it would make for a very good, and angst driven mythos - Lost Innocence.

heh

Well I never replied to my own question.., I think it's easier to believe in the puberty change just because the relationship of growing /developing and shift...such as the sex nature that rise on puberty .And yes I think the idea of child werewolves is really cartoonish...^^... I do agree with Jamie's ideas.

Maybe a werewolf child could actually change under high pressures, but not knowing how to handle would be a problem.... XD

Now about hormones problems on adult ..old age... I have the idea that very old werewolves choose at the end remain humans or full wolves...is just an Idea that after a live of fighting and shifting I think rest as the shape the choose is lovely.

I would rather them be able to change when they are old. Somehow, it just seems weird to me that they wouldn't be able to change anymore.

Even if the virus is dormant in kids, I like LoboLEO's idea of them still being able to change in emergency situations. There could be lots and lots of problems with that (like being seen by humans), but to me that seems like a reasonable compromise.

Well, if we wanted them to be able to change as kids in an emergency, but usually teens/young adults, perhaps it could be activated by huge amounts of adrenaline, which would be present in an emergency situation or *cough* in one's first sexual encounter.
Of course this may make for some interesting conversations....


*teenager gets mad and half shifts*

Mother- "You better be able to prove your life was in danger or you are in BIG trouble, mister!"


The only problem I can see with this is after the kid has an initial scare, the disease would have been triggered and can't go back to dormancy, so he'll have to learn to deal with his shifts at a very early age.

I like adrenaline as an activator better than hormones...I think that's a pretty good idea, Pariah. Most young werewolves wouldn't ever encounter a situation where they would need to TF, but those that did would at least be able to. That way, at least they would be more safe than if they were in human form in a dangerous situation. Like if a little werewolf kid got kidnapped and got scared, he could go crazy on the kidnapper's a** .

However, most werewolves would probably need some kind of staged situation when they come of age to activate their TFing. This would be a hell of a lot of fun for the older werewolves.

Excelsia wrote:I like adrenaline as an activator better than hormones...I think that's a pretty good idea, Pariah. Most young werewolves wouldn't ever encounter a situation where they would need to TF, but those that did would at least be able to. That way, at least they would be more safe than if they were in human form in a dangerous situation. Like if a little werewolf kid got kidnapped and got scared, he could go crazy on the kidnapper's a** .

Uh, adrenaline/epinephrine is a hormone.

Lupin wrote:

Excelsia wrote:I like adrenaline as an activator better than hormones...I think that's a pretty good idea, Pariah. Most young werewolves wouldn't ever encounter a situation where they would need to TF, but those that did would at least be able to. That way, at least they would be more safe than if they were in human form in a dangerous situation. Like if a little werewolf kid got kidnapped and got scared, he could go crazy on the kidnapper's a** .

Uh, adrenaline/epinephrine is a hormone.

By 'hormones' I was referring to the ones that rush in during puberty. Sorry bout that. Perhaps I should have said that I prefer the hormone adrenaline as an activator, instead of the puberty hormones.

Excelsia wrote:By 'hormones' I was referring to the ones that rush in during puberty. Sorry bout that. Perhaps I should have said that I prefer the hormone adrenaline as an activator, instead of the puberty hormones.

Ah, I see. I was thinking of the sex hormones more as an enabler than an activator. Kind of like circuit breaker as opposed to a light switch.