THE PACK Message Boards

'Tis mostly what we figured.

Apokryltaros wrote:While it's true that animals can be expressive, but I hardly think that a 35 second "AAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" would be able to convey a message of "I have spotted a part of 14 drunken hunters who are wreaking of beer and whiskey. They have 20 rifles between them, and they have 12 boxes of ammunition, and are currently arguing whether or not to hunt deer out of season, or shoot at any random target. I recommend we alert the forest rangers, and encourage them to summon the police."

Well... No, that's true. He couldn't howl to state that much info, but a howl could translate to:
"There's trouble -- stay the #### down and I'll explain everything when I get back."
"OMG. Get over here right now -- this is absolutely hucking filarious!"

It's kind of like the same use we have for text messaging or webspeak. If I'm online, for example, when I look up and and see smoke billowing out of the kitchen, which do you think I am more likely to write to my AIM partner to explain my absense?

A:
Holy ####! I put some mannicotti on the boil before I logged on, I lost track of time and now there's this big cloud of black smoke billowing out of the kitchen! It's an old stove in a crappy apartment; I shouldn't have left it unattended. Hang on a moment; I need to find the fire extinguisher and put this mess out. I'll talk to you later.

B:
G2G. BBL.

The assumption with Choice B, of course, is that I'll explain everything later when I'm more capable. Obviously howling is different in that the werewolf's ability to communicate are restricted by distance as opposed to urgency, but the principles are still pretty much the same; a howl is a message that's been abbreviated. In the example I provided earlier, for example, it could just be a simple warning, the details of which they could fill in via sight/scent empathy when they return.

Terastas wrote:

Apokryltaros wrote:While it's true that animals can be expressive, but I hardly think that a 35 second "AAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" would be able to convey a message of "I have spotted a part of 14 drunken hunters who are wreaking of beer and whiskey. They have 20 rifles between them, and they have 12 boxes of ammunition, and are currently arguing whether or not to hunt deer out of season, or shoot at any random target. I recommend we alert the forest rangers, and encourage them to summon the police."

Well... No, that's true. He couldn't howl to state that much info, but a howl could translate to:
"There's trouble -- stay the #### down and I'll explain everything when I get back."
"OMG. Get over here right now -- this is absolutely hucking filarious!"

It's kind of like the same use we have for text messaging or webspeak. If I'm online, for example, when I look up and and see smoke billowing out of the kitchen, which do you think I am more likely to write to my AIM partner to explain my absense?

A:
Holy ####! I put some mannicotti on the boil before I logged on, I lost track of time and now there's this big cloud of black smoke billowing out of the kitchen! It's an old stove in a crappy apartment; I shouldn't have left it unattended. Hang on a moment; I need to find the fire extinguisher and put this mess out. I'll talk to you later.

B:
G2G. BBL.

The assumption with Choice B, of course, is that I'll explain everything later when I'm more capable. Obviously howling is different in that the werewolf's ability to communicate are restricted by distance as opposed to urgency, but the principles are still pretty much the same; a howl is a message that's been abbreviated. In the example I provided earlier, for example, it could just be a simple warning, the details of which they could fill in via sight/scent empathy when they return.

Or

C:
An Emoticon!!


LOL!!!

Figarou wrote: C:
An Emoticon!!

LOL!!!

Which one would I use for that kind of situation?
?

Terastas wrote:

Figarou wrote: C:
An Emoticon!!

LOL!!!

Which one would I use for that kind of situation?
?

Not sure. But I could try and make one for you.

Er... You know, as nice a gesture as that might seem... Well, sitting here waiting for an appropriate emoticon to be made...

That might take even longer than Choice A. Wasn't the whole point of my original example to demonstrate time conservation?

Terastas wrote:Er... You know, as nice a gesture as that might seem... Well, sitting here waiting for an appropriate emoticon to be made...

That might take even longer than Choice A. Wasn't the whole point of my original example to demonstrate time conservation?

I'm just pulling your tail feathers.

Figarou wrote:I'm just pulling your tail feathers.

Terastas wrote:

Figarou wrote:I'm just pulling your tail feathers.

Ok, sorry. I was just joking around. Lets get back on topic now.

But it's not a bad analogy Figarou. A howl is compkex, audible emoticon. If I howled right now and you knew me well enough to know how I felt in different situations, you would think, "Boy! He just ate something big and is now blissfully stuffed." You probably wouldn't know that it was a 4-egg ham and cheese omelette with onions, salsa, and sour cream, though.

WolfVanZandt wrote:But it's not a bad analogy Figarou. A howl is compkex, audible emoticon. If I howled right now and you knew me well enough to know how I felt in different situations, you would think, "Boy! He just ate something big and is now blissfully stuffed." You probably wouldn't know that it was a 4-egg ham and cheese omelette with onions, salsa, and sour cream, though.

If I was down wind, Oh yes I would!!

I howl back saying.... "Brush your teeth!!"

Just Kidding.

*gets out on-track-ifier cattle prod*

AAnnnyyywho, we've established what a howl would probably communicate... but how do you think it should be used in the movie?

Shadowblaze wrote: *gets out on-track-ifier cattle prod*

AAnnnyyywho, we've established what a howl would probably communicate... but how do you think it should be used in the movie?

Well... Going back to my first post, a howl (along with all other canine vocalizations -- barking, whimpering and what have you) would, on the base level, take the place of our human emotional vocalizations; they would react the way they would as if human, but the extended canine muzzle would distort it into canine sounds. A sad wail would become a howl, a curse word would come out as a bark, etc. Depending on what the local werewolves think of such actions, these could apply to all werewolves or just rookies.

Then, as we've already just discussed, a howl could be an abbreviated signal from a distance. And finally, simply enough, howling could be a way to relieve stress or boredom (I've been to a wolf sanctuary in January and seen a wolf howl just to see his breath).

So... I think there'd be a lot of howling and other canine behavior whenever a rookie werewolf goes through his first shift, the first howl probably being durring the shift, either because it hurts like a bastard and his pain cries start to come out as howls, or if he has a veteran spotting him during his shift, possibly by their recommendation. After that, the use would probably be a lot more practical.

Hey, when I stump my toe (which I do way too often in my cluttered apartment), I snarl. If I tried barking, I would probably choke on it. Actually, as hard as I hit, I'm pretty mindless. Trying is out of the question.

I might have missed this but, are these Werewolves going to be capable of speech? If so, a Werewolf commenting on another's howl could be used sometimes to decypher (but not too often, that could get old.) If done well, though, the audience should be able to figure out what the howl meant by the behaviors of the Weres that heard it.

One Werewolf, "Did you hear that howl?"
Other Werewolf, "Yeah, I'd give it an 8 - a solid 7.5 anyway."
"G'wan. The old geezer must have been gargling with sand."
"Y'think? I thought it had a rather throaty quality that's rare in this day ...."
"Nah, he just stumped his bleedin' toe again."

WolfVanZandt wrote:I might have missed this but, are these Werewolves going to be capable of speech?

I'm pretty sure that's a negative. For the most part, I think werewolves would communicate more through body language and scent empathy, or if they still hadn't figured out canine language yet and/or needed to clarify something in more detail than canine communication is capable of, they could still always just write it.

Plus, seeing as we've prided ourselves on canine anatomy enough to go into the details of coconut and chocolate, it'd be pretty inconsistent to have them talking a-la The Polar Bear King.

Well, you should be able to make it work. You'll just have to be more crafty (heavy on "craft") to get points across.

in werewolf from, basic speech, because different pitched growls of different lengths... but I think it would only work if theyve been around long enough and in enough numbers to actually create a language. they would probably communicate by postures, scents, and bits of noise as well as fur and facial expressions.

Have you ever noticed how often people are offended by what was intended to be innocent language on the Internet. That's because even verbal laguage has an empathic factor and it isn't conveyed well over the Internet. The more technical language is used, the less likely it is to be misunderstood.

The real complication is that, whereas technical language is objective, empathy is subjective. In a sense, everyone has a different empathic language. Part of relationship building is learning each others empathic language.

Many Therians see relationship as the centerpiece of life and the most important thing is developing a web of life composed of the relationships of self with other. Such a eiw would emphasize the subjective over the objective.

I would think that empathic communicators from different ensembles would be able to communicate the big issues of life, but only intimates would develope precise understanding.

In the wild wolves use howls to locate each other or to set territories. I would assume that a werewolf would use the howl for the same types of things but a tad more complex. I am not sure how but more emtions could be expressed through howling. I don't know about anyone else but when i am happy or really sad i howl it makes me feel better. Maybe werewolves would be the same.

Yup, proably no talking werewolves in Devoured. Hmm, unless they can talk with their minds, ala Homeward Bound

A wolf or werewolf could give a howl of distress or pain. That would alert the others to what condition they are in. But not as complex as, "Oh god, Timmy was pushed in the old well and is being held hostage by the werewolf-hunting-ninja-surfers! So we know its a trap!"

There is ONE,

one single word, spoken by a werewolf in werewolf form. Its barely understandable, gravely, but its there. Thats the ONLY werewolf talking in this project.

"ONE"? A Werewolf says, "ONE". What an odd thing to say!



BTW, that's the way I would see Gestalt/wolf form - human communication. Since Werewolves in those forms are not really built for speech, they growl out words as best they can (and with difficulty until they get used to it). They would be like a person with a speech impediment. I've worked with a lot of people like that and you have to get used t the way they talk before you can understand them; afterward, it's not that difficult.

One wonders what single word a werewolf would say. Here's some possibilities...

Yum!
Ouch
Right...

Oh, bugger. I just had this image of Jay and Silent Bob. The werewolf throws a diabolical agent off a train, turns around, and utters, "no ticket!"

"G'bye"

ABrownrigg wrote:There is ONE,

one single word, spoken by a werewolf in werewolf form. Its barely understandable, gravely, but its there. Thats the ONLY werewolf talking in this project.

That makes sense. I'm assuming such is the case because the muzzle makes most human speech difficult, but not necessarilly everything.
Every now and then on one of those home video programs, there will be footage of an animal, usually a cat or dog, that can make a noise that sounds like a specific word (I've heard multiple stories about a cat saying "hello" for example).
And in a way, maybe that's what humans are doing when they howl; they think their communicating, but their really howling: "You say potato!" or "Sponge stampede!" so the wolves howl back: "What are you talking about?" or "What the hell is wrong with you?!"

*looks at what he wrote* I don't believe it -- I just pulled a Figarou. Okay, back on topic:

Hmmm... Just throwing this out there: Unless the werewolves we're talking about are quadrupedal, do you think hand gestures, or even sign language could be employed?