(Warning: RANT) "Furries". What is...what is Not?

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:55 am

MattSullivan wrote:I would also like to add, that one of my biggest pet peeves, is when furries label ANY movie with animal characters in it, as a FURRY movie

Well, that's just a matter of wording. A 'furry movie' isn't neccissarily a movie made for or about furries, it's a movie that a furry would enjoy.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:09 am

Set wrote:"Furry" is an extremely loosely defined term. When speaking of art all it means is "anthropomorphic animal". That's it. There's not fancy list of requirements that says they have to walk on two legs, or have DDD chests, or any such crap like that. ANY human feature makes an animal character anthropomorphic - even something as simple as talking. Since furries in art are anthropomorphic chracters, whether you like the fact or not, all anthros are furries.

Don't b**** at us because the sky is blue. It's the same s***.

I was going to edit part this quote to make it into an argument about African Americans and the n-word, and then make a point about how even though two words might mean the same thing, often some words carry negative connotations that might be unintended by the speaker, but I really think that it would be stirring the pot way too much.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am of African American descent.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:11 am

heh, perhaps so, but you have a point.

But then in that scenario, I don't think it's appropriate no matter how it's used or who uses it.

But my thoughts on that are beside the point. ^_^

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:13 am

PariahPoet wrote:A furry is anything that has both human and non-human animal characteristics. Deal with it.

Stop That.

PariahPoet wrote:Vuldari, sounds like you have a personal problem.
People thought you were a perv because you called yourself furry(at one point), boo-hoo. That doesn't mean the rest of us are perverted and it doesn't mean you can change the definition of the term. You don't have to call Goldie's art furry, but that doesn't mean it isn't. If you don't like the fandom, then don't associate with it, but please, please stop insulting those of us who do like it.

And to those who say they really are furry but deny it to everyone else- Why? By hiding what you are, you're just promoting the stereotype of the sex-hounds. If more decent people admitted to being furry, maybe people would associate us with the fandom instead of the very vocal minority of yiffers.

How come Furries are allways the victims?

Why exactly are the members of the Furry culture not responsible for the consequences of the actions of it's own members?

Its the Furries that have succeeded in ****ing up thier own reputation.

It seems to me like you don't care WHO you hurt by foolishly parading the fandom of Antrhopomorphic characters as some sort of bizarre religion.

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I must admit...I have another agenda behind my desire for Furries to be taken out of the spotlight of the Anthropomorphic genre that I have been thinking, but not speaking.

If this conversation has to end for me saying this, then so be it, but I think that Furry culture is Dangerous.

I think it is a culture with broken, well intentioned but misguided values that draws together it's members by their common interest in animals and creatures as people, and there it promotes feelings of detatchment from the human race and spreads absurd ideas that corrupt the fragile minds of people who are probobly in need of wiser, more practical guidance.

I fear for the mental stability of the young and naive who wish and try to run away from thier human troubles instead of confronting them, and find a group of careless, hopeless dreamers in the Furries who encourage them to believe that they are dragons and faries and purple skunks and lead them into lifestyles which further alienate them from the rest of the world, exept for other Furries.

I like my Animal Characters...ALOT. I am such a huge fan of the genre and concept that I often feel like I must declare that passion to the world as a part of who I am.

...but when I tried to do that by stepping into the Furry Culture as a member myself, I didn't just find something I didn't like. I found a great many, many people with similar passions to my own who were brainwashing themselves and each other in disturbing ways and were in need of a great deal of help.

The feelings they feel I know are real, as I feel them too, but it is clear to me that many of them were not expressing and exploring them in 'healthy' ways.

I wish to create an alternative for such people, including myself, to go to and declare thier passion for the genre...but instead of being fed ideas about "mental shifting" and "phantom limbs", and considering a paper mache ferret head mask more thier true face than thier real one...

...being introduced to a structured community where they would instead be taught ways they can express thier creativity in wonderful ways, and learn from healthy, successful people who are proud to be who and what they are, (instead of convincing themselves they are something else), how to re-dirrect their passions towards constructive, life serving goals and ambitions.

Essentially improve the opinion and reputation of the fans of Animal characters in Fiction by structuring the Fan-Organization around values that actually support thinking and behaving like respectable, intelligent Human Beings.

(Instead of brooding together about how much they all Hate the "Hyoomans")

...imagine that.

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A moderator can lock this thread now. In fact...I reccomend it. I'm suprised it didn't happen right away.

It is clear to me now that I never had any intention about being nice about this. If allowed to continue saying what I really want to say here, I would surely start a massive flame war, so I think this discussion is best at an end.

If anyone has anything left to say to me, PM me.

Strange as this may sound...flames and Hate-Mail are welcome.

If I can say what I really think, it's only fair to open that same right for everyone else to do the same to me.

I really should have found a better way to express my feelings on this matter, but what's done is done. I'm glad to finally have that off my chest.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:17 am

Nahh its ok, It said Warning, Rant.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:20 am

Vuldari wrote: How come Furries are allways the victims?

Why exactly are the members of the Furry culture not responsible for the consequences of the actions of it's own members?

Its the Furries that have succeeded in ****ing up thier own reputation.

It seems to me like you don't care WHO you hurt by foolishly parading the fandom of Antrhopomorphic characters as some sort of bizarre religion.

Hold on, how about we don't go into personal attacks? I have not done anything to hurt the reputation of furries, so do not accuse me of it!

Miragh · Post by **Miragh** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:23 am

Vuldari wrote:I wish to create an alternative for such people, including myself, to go to and declare thier passion for the genre...but instead of being fed ideas about "mental shifting" and "phantom limbs", and considering a paper mache ferret head mask more thier true face than thier real one...

Well said!

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:23 am

*Pauses Flame*

Now class, when you first see this emotiocn

this means to back off if possible, the person now expressing their anger at you. There for you should probably lay off, apoligize or explain what you meants.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:26 am

Shadow Wulf wrote:There for you should probably lay off, apoligize or explain what you meants.

Indeed, but as Vuldari said, he has absolutely no intention of being civil about this.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:33 am

...
...
...

After reading Vuldari's latest post, it pains me to bring Mr. T for THREADFAIL.

The purpose of this proposal has now gone too biased to me.

Oh well. Back to drawing stupid s***.

Kirk Hammett · Post by **Kirk Hammett** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:57 am

It's a very fair statement Vuldari, and I'm also confused...I don't think Brian Jaques had any idea what a 'Furry' was when he wrote Redwall (A book I read when I was younger, he's still writing them, they're for kids though, I do warn, they got childish later).

I haven't got anything against the general population of furries...well, I guess therians and religions and other beliefs and attitudes are the same; there are always the rude fanatics. (And I steer clear, I'm afraid of them

)

I don't feel comnfortable with the way 'furry' is described online, it's not a big deal, but it can get a bit weird to see yes, the Lion King, categorised as furries. I think perhaps someone has misinterpreted it? I don't really know so I guess my opinion isn't that important, I haven't got enough information to form a good one.

Unfortunately there are so many disputes and grey areas over any classification system.

---> Anyone remember the very recent Pluto removal and planet descriptions? Decent example if ever there was one.

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On another note; what has 'phantom limbs and mental shifting' got to do with furries? (An honest, non-attacking question. I honestly don't know the answer to that, it's not a smartass question just so you all know

)

I'm a 'shifter' mentally, and have 'phantom limbs'. But after much thinking about it and talking to people I realised that well, I'm not a furry, and therianthropes seem to dislike my experiences since they just don't fit into their own, and I'm not religious...so well I decided it was my imagination after all. And don;t kill me but I think it all comes down to our perception.

Just an opinion...it's an idea, not a definite opinion though. I'm not sure what the cause of my extreme sensations are...but I think imagination is an extremely strong thing.

So I presume Furries are similar to 'therians' then? I guess not suprising since millions of people who've never heard of the term 'therian' or 'furry' practice shifting every day in meditation, oh and the millions of children who have the capabilities to bring forth such feelings.

(None of this is meant to be an attack. This thread is already really...well people trying to read between other's lines. There should be no line reading here. It's all friendly. Yes, I'm scared of being bitten!)

But yeah I'm confused...are therians furries, furries therians, I hear too many things, like therians overlap with furries but they're enemies...man too many internet terms...

I had to ask Word Wolf what a heap of internet slang meant! Am I seriously behind with the times? Am I really that...uneducated about the internet?

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:20 am

i just wish we could all come together and agree that whatever your view on this is, that werewolves are damn cool. And sexy. and funny. And an underappreciated film monster that gets maybe 1/8 as many movies as vampires ( bleah to them )

Kirk Hammett · Post by **Kirk Hammett** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:30 am

MattSullivan wrote:i just wish we could all come together and agree that whatever your view on this is, that werewolves are damn cool. And sexy. and funny. And an underappreciated film monster that gets maybe 1/8 as many movies as vampires ( bleah to them )

If people could agree and compromise, our world would be a much better place, don't you think?

My whole post was a compromise. I try steer clear of arguments. What I like about this board is even through arguments, people forgive and forget. We need more of that. We really do.

Set · Post by **Set** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:33 am

Kirk: Most furries only have "fursonas" for fun. There are some who are therians, and some who have beliefs so similar that they might as well be therians but they don't like the word and the negative connotation it carries with it. (Read as: fear of being labeled as elitist bastards, of which I've met many, or fear of not being a "good enough tr00 w3r3" for said elitist bastards.)

The phantom limbs can come from that, or from someone just being used to wearing a fake tail so long they still feel it there even after they've taken it off. Anyone can get phantom limbs. It's not some super special awesome thing reserved only for therians.

Vuldari, what in hell do you think you're going to accomplish anyway? Any new term you create will only go down the exact same road. What makes you think you won't get the occasional "weirdo"? You will. That happens with anything and everything. There's no avoiding it. You can either whine about it like you've been doing, and draw FURTHER attention to it, or you can ignore them an enjoy the things you like.

I'm tired of your dramawhoring. Let it go.

Kirk Hammett · Post by **Kirk Hammett** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:47 am

Set wrote:Kirk: Most furries only have "fursonas" for fun. There are some who are therians, and some who have beliefs so similar that they might as well be therians but they don't like the word and the negative connotation it carries with it. (Read as: fear of being labeled as elitist bastards, of which I've met many, or fear of not being a "good enough tr00 w3r3" for said elitist bastards.)

The phantom limbs can come from that, or from someone just being used to wearing a fake tail so long they still feel it there even after they've taken it off. Anyone can get phantom limbs. It's not some super special awesome thing reserved only for therians.

Thankyou for the information Set. And I agree with the fact it's something anyone can do (phantom limbs, shifting) with practice and imagination. Believe me, there are people out there with zero imagination. It's not really that common in a human, but they do exist. Most of them party all night and think I am an eccentric freak for liking werewolves and music and whatever else I like...and I don't even advertise that really vocally.

----

C'mon now anyway let's all shake hands, paws, tails, whatever, and be friends? You'll all be chatting again in a week anyway.

On a side note:

I am taking no sides here. (I actually can't take a side even if I wanted to).

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:54 am

I dont understand why talking animals are labeled as furries. Animals communicate...I mean they dont speak English but they do comunicate with one another. It was just translated to English so the people watching it could understand so to speak.

When I think of a furry. I think of an antopomorphic charcter that wears clothes, can talk and ocassionally uses weapons or magic. I think a furry is just a human with an anthropomorphic body and few skills from their animal side.

A werewolf can go between forms, is much bulkier then a furry and doesnt really talk or wear much clothes. And is usually though not always associated with killing or violence or a curse.

A furry(in the real life sense)...is someone who connects with a certain animals and pitures themself with things like a tail or ears. They occasional dress up in costume and usually have a fursona.

A werewolf/therian...is someone who believes they are either part animal or an animal trapped in a human body. Ocassionaly they also wear costumes and have fursona but i think its much more serious and spiritual then when a furry does it. (not that a furry is doing anything wrong!)

I dont know. its a very confusing topic. That is how I break it down anyway. And it does annoy me a little that because of some of the movies I like, some people would associate me with being a furry and as a therian (i hate that word), Im a little offended. Because people generally think furries are disgusting or silly and I dont want to be looked at like that.

I dont meain to offend anyone. I do like evryone here. And I dont see a problem with furries. Even the ones that are into the porn/yiff and all that. Yes, its a little weird to me. But there are so much worse things that people find interesting that is much more harmful.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:44 pm

Vuldari wrote:
PariahPoet wrote:A furry is anything that has both human and non-human animal characteristics. Deal with it.
Stop That.

She's right you know. You're just going to have to live with it.

You can't control other people's actions, what other people choose to say, or what terms they're going to use. I (and most other furries) don't care how much it pisses you off, we're still going to call "The Lion King" a furry movie...because (according to part of the definition of what "furry" means) it is. The word "furry" just so happens to be one that has a wide variety of applications, and just because that bothers you, doesn't mean there's anything you can do to make it change.

If you want to create a group for people who like the cleaner aspects of the furry fandom, but don't like the creepy, sexual aspects of it, then do it. Nobody is stopping you. Define what type of people your group includes very clearly, come up with a name, and spread it across the internets. There are people out there who feel the same way you do, there just aren't very many of them here.

Take the "Burned Fur" group for instance (they disbanded years ago, but they still have their site archived for anyone who is interested: http://burnedfur.mv.com/ ). They wanted to clean up the furry fandom. Had they succeeded, you'd probably be ok with identifying yourself with it.

Anyway...I understand that you don't want yourself to be associated with some of the perverted things that the furry fandom has going on, but you can't possibly hope to change an entire movement. The best thing you can do is stop complaining about the furry movement (because there's no way we're going to change), and start working on your own movement.

(Also, keep in mind that I haven't read this entire thread because I'm in a bit of a hurry...but I'm pretty sure I got the major gist of it. If I've missed the point entirely, my apologies).

Kanibal · Post by **Kanibal** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:22 pm

It seems the community I joind (which I call the TF Community) is not as tranquil and perfect as I first saw it.

However I dont (or wont) bring myself under any names until I know precicesly what they mean, and due to the fact that all the terms are used so loosely I have come to one concluison.

We are all in the same sort of 'fandom' (or whatever) and as in every community there are extream members and the more quite members all with diffrent beliefs of whats what. Think of it this way peope that become mebers of sites like this one or the TFB or CYOC are in the same area as me so it really doesnt matter what they are called, it's how they act.

Furry is just a name, and 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet'

(No I'm not a shakespear fan, I'm doing it in english and that expressed what I meant, though sweet may not be the right term.)

Like it or lump it, thats my opinion. (or as close as I could get, I never was good at expressing myself)

Lycanthrope · Post by **Lycanthrope** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:23 pm

I'm not going into this conversation because all I know about the topic is what I read either from this forum or Wikipedia. What I want to say is:
Welcome back, Renorei!

You've been absent for more than two months. How were You in the meantime?

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:31 pm

Lycanthrope wrote: Welcome back, Renorei!

You've been absent for more than two months. How were You in the meantime?

Pretty good, pretty good. School's been rough, as has life in general. I needed a break from the drama of this place, and from everyone taking everything I say and misinterpreting what I mean. It got old after awhile, but from the looks of how things are now, it doesn't seem to have changed much. Hopefully, I'll stick around for a while, but that remains to be seen.

Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome!!

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:05 pm

Set wrote:Most furries only have "fursonas" for fun.

Since I knew nothing of furries when I 1st joined, I looked up fursona when I 1st saw it. Now I know what it is. (I think)

Whats odd is that a while back, someone posted this.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... 8370#38370

WOLF wrote:Yeah i will stick to a wolf, an anthropomorphic one i guess. Therian, i dont know yet. ill put it this way, when i saw figarous pic and the first thought that came between my furry ears was *hey he/she stole my fursona!!*. if that makes things a little clearer...btw, please im me if you want to know more about the 2007 rocky mountain fur con. i know the organizer fursonally, so if i dont have the answer when you ask, lol ill have it within a day.

I stole his fursona?

All I did was create a werewolf character. I was a bit confused when he posted that. But I didn't want to make any comments until now.

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:11 pm

*pounces* Renorei!!

I was wondering where you were!

Missed you; hope you do stick around

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:15 pm

Silverclaw wrote:*pounces* Renorei!!
I was wondering where you were! Missed you; hope you do stick around

Oh...I'll make sure Renorei sticks around.

*puts crazy glue on her and sticks her to the wall*

Heh....

Renorei

Set · Post by **Set** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:30 pm

Figarou wrote:I stole his fursona?

All I did was create a werewolf character. I was a bit confused when he posted that. But I didn't want to make any comments until now.

He meant that your character looked like his. "Fursona" is just another word for the characters people create to represent themselves.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:16 pm

*Sigh*

...I shouldn't be typing messages about touchy subjects at 5:am like that...

Not all people who choose to call themselves "Furries" think and act the same way, and most of them do not actually believe in most of the psudo-therian mumbo jumbo I've been talking about.

I know that. I'm sorry that I have been making it sound otherwise.

But it sure looks like they do sometimes, especially to deperate outsiders looking for an escape or an outlet for their passions.

I just can't seem to find a way to deal with this issue effectively because the "Furry Culture" is such an indistinct thing. The "Burned Furs" tried too, and failed.

But I simply do not believe that this is a thing that is beyond help or control. "Live and let live" no longer applies for me either, because the way I see it, real people are getting hurt for letting it go on.

To 'accept' that nothing can be done is to stand by and watch many good people destroy themselves over something that should not be anything more than a hobby or an casual interest.

This really IS a personal matter to me, because I feel that the influence of being involved in, associated with and misguided by the Furry culture Hurt me. I believe it is, and has been doing the same to others for far too long.

It is like a mosh pit of radicals, in the middle of a Toy Store, passing around dangerous things to anyone who asks for them (or doesn't ask for them), who just don't care what happens to those people as a result. Though there may be some who are able to live and exist with these things and remain responsible, sensible and healthy, I think far to many people can not.

Everyone remembers "Joe Camel" right?

Telling a young kid that it is okay to believe they really are an African Fruit Bat, and that it is cool to think and feel like you are a wild animal ("Mental" and "Phantom" Shifts), and then not taking any responsibility for what the kid does to himself after that is just as bad, or much worse than passing him a cigarette and walking away to me.

When taken on an individual by individual basis, I think there are a great many really cool, talented and intelligent people within the Current Furry fandom.

...but as a whole, "Furries" (the culture) seem to behave much like a bunch of spaced out druggies.

It feel like no one ever DARES to stand up and say,

"Hey...you know...maybe this really isn't such a good idea. What 'OkapiWulf_92' is doing is kind of messed up. HEY 'OkapiWulf_92'!...Michelle...we really think you need to stop doing that."

Everyone just lets everyone else do whatever the hell they want, and the result is, and has always been, sheer chaos.

Members come and join in for the fun and enjoyment of the characters...

...but are quickly bombarded by people expressing and promoting 'Escapism' and sometimes 'anti-humanity' beliefs, and morally irresponsible sexual attitudes.

These things I can plainly see are very destructive to innocent minds. These attitudes are also easily addictive and far too easily can consume a persons mind and life.

So maybe what I really want is an Alternative class of Super-Fan, a Respectable Figurehead organization to represent us, AND...

...a sort of "Furries/Therians Anonymous" support group. Because, honestly...some of us really need HELP.

And I do mean US... meaning, including myself.

I want things to change, and I want such a thing to exist because, as much as it hurts me to admit it, I need help. I wish such a group had existed back in my Jr. High/High School years when I noticed my fandom was beginning to make me become detached from my non-furry related activities and relationships.

...but other Furries have proven to be no help whatsoever. All they do is act insulted and get mad at me for suggesting that some of the things they are promoting might actually be bad. ...no help, and no support for social and mental recovery whatsoever.

I feel I have the right to say such things about the Furry culture, because I was one of them myself, and now I want out, but I don't know how.

You can't just shut off how you feel. I know I can't.

I need Help climbing out of this social Pit, and I want to help the other burned and broken, anthro loving kindred spirits like myself return to the light with me.

I don't think that is a good place for me to be, in the heart of Furry Culture, and I think that as much as half of the Furries of the world probobly really don't belong there (as "Furries") either.

One really does not need to BE a " *fill in the blank* " in order to be a fan.

...if the Furries had applied the self controll to stop suggesting otherwise years ago, it probably would have saved me, and countless others a great deal of unnecessary grief.

No luck there though. The Furry Culture overall doesn't seem to believe in self-control or responsibility. ...as if expecting them to help clean up the mess they made is a greater crime than making the mess in the first place.

That is why I think a group OTHER than the "Furries" is needed.

(...people who don't hide their irresponsible attitudes and spaced out mentalities under a blanket of talented artists like GoldenWolf and DarkNatasha and Kyoht, and Legendary FilmMakers and authors like Walt Disney, Brian Jacques, Don Bluth, and Richard Adams to make themselves look better.)

I think that Furry Culture makes many otherwise sensible people go insane.