THE PACK Message Boards

Morkulv wrote:In my humble opinion, therianthropy is a form a werewolvism. And I know a lot of people here will disagree with me on that, but thats the way I see it.

*Groan*... which is again based on the tired and overused excuse that the word "Werewolf" is comprised of the words Wolf and WERE ("Man")


Are Navy Seals actually SEALS? If the navy trained a Wild Seal for some purpose or another, would that Seal have the same rank and title as the trained soldiers?

Of course Not!


Just because they have the words "Seal" and "Navy" in the name, does not mean that every possible instance of a person, creature or thing that is both related to the Navy and Seals at the same time are the same thing.


The word was created and coined to mean one specific thing, even if the wording of the name appears more vague.


Get over it...neither You, nor your Wolf-Therian Friends are 'Werewolves'.


One can pretend and call themself whatever they want, but a Rose by any other name is still not a Volkswagen.

Vuldari
This is just a suggestion:
Could a person, while not physically a werewolf, be one mentally?:?

And yet, a Volkswagon can be named Rose

And can be in a Rose Parade

And carry a whole passle of Roses






I paint a rosey picture, eh ?

WerewolfKeeper3 wrote:Vuldari
This is just a suggestion:
Could a person, while not physically a werewolf, be one mentally?:?

That is called "Clinical Lycanthropy", and is a real, documented psychological condition.

Even if the persons 'Other Side' was a Wolf, though it may be reasonable to sometimes refer to them as a Werewolf for the sake of conversation, I personally would not consider that a factual labeling.

Being one in mind only; I think many of us are already on it. We'd aim for the physical shift, too, but darn it, physics and biology won't let us.

Scott Gardener wrote:Being one in mind only; I think many of us are already on it.

On..."It"? ... 'On'? ... Hunh?

Scott Gardener wrote:We'd aim for the physical shift, too, but darn it, physics and biology won't let us.

Oh heck yeah...


...if I could manage it, I would shapeshift too...it's my all time favorite fantasy...and it has nothing to do with being a Therian.

It couldn't, in my case ... since I am not one.

vuldari wrote:...if I could manage it, I would shapeshift too...it's my all time favorite fantasy...and it has nothing to do with being a Therian.

It couldn't, in my case ... since I am not one.

But your title="Apostrophe" The Exasperating Philosopher

From dust we are made

To dust we return

Who says we are not shape changers .....?

cumulusprotagonist wrote:But your title="Apostrophe" The Exasperating Philosopher

What about it?


Being Philosophical and being inspired by the rest of the Fauna on Earth has nothing to do with thinking I am something different than what I physically am. IMHO, ones Consciousness/Spirit is like LIQUID. It has no set form. It just becomes whatever it is contained in. ...and my container is Human, so that is what I am, and what I always have been, since my consciousness came into existence already within this form.



...back on Topic, my own usual perception of the "Average" Werewolf makes it something that you really DON'T want to be, so from that perspective, Werewolves would probably see Therians as a bunch of self-deluded fools who think they really want to become Werewolves, but wouldn't if they knew what it was really like. Those kinds of Werewolves would not be trying to "Recruit" anyone, so they would probably avoid therians as much as possible.


It all depends, really. However, if being a Werewolf was actually GREAT, you would think that, by now, a Therian would have been bitten, and then went around biting every other eager and willing therian they know, and the world would be over-run by therian werewolves by now.

Nearly every Anthro Convention with end with at least half its attendance leaving as willing or unexpected lycanthropes, due to overzealous therian and furry enthusiasts. Therians who received a "Gift/Blessing" version of lycanthropy would want to share that joy with all of their Theiran friends, so this outcome would be enevitable unless it was kept away from them at all costs.


Honestly...if you became a Werewolf...and it was AWESOME...wouldn't you want to share it with everyone else here in The Pack who wants it too?


Lycanthropy + Therians = The end of the world as we know it, and the beginning of a world of Werewolves.

...
Therian is not necessarily the same thing as a therianthrope, right?
There is some new termonology in here (new to me)

cumulusprotagonist wrote:...
Therian is not necessarily the same thing as a therianthrope, right?
There is some new termonology in here (new to me)

You know...I will sometimes switch between the two without even thinking about it.

...but I'm pretty sure "Therian" and "Theriantrope" are the same thing.

The concept as a whole is called "Theriantropy", so an individual in that category would be a "Theriantrope", or just "Therian" for short, (because that is easier to say), Just like a "Lycantrhope" is someone possessing "Lycanthropy". (Though shortening that to "Lycan", like in Underworld just sounds dumb, IMHO).

Vuldari said:

Lycanthropy + Therians = The end of the world as we know it, and the beginning of a world of Werewolves.

I ask forgiveness in advance for my puns:

That would be one wered world ..............

the term therianthrope was origianlly invented for fantasy roleplaying games not even twenty years ago (more like fifteen) because nitpicky geeks realized that Lycan means wolf so not all werebeasts could be called lycanthropes (which is done in the original D&D monster manual) so they chose this new word to simply include all animal were-beasts.

So techniquelly it was meant to refer to variations on the werewolf thing using other animals.

So if this therian thing is meant for you all online who associate their minds or spirits with animals than the term therianthrope doesn't fit as it was meant to refer to a shapeshifter.

Although "Therantropy" is frequntly used in R.P. circles as a species ambiguous alternative to "Lycanthropy" (btw... Lycan does NOT mean "Wolf"), I am not convinced that this is where the term originated from, but is merely where it was most popularly introduced into pop-vocabulary.

I seem to recall encountering the origin of the term once, and it was different from both the spiritual and metamorphic interpretations it is most frequently used for today, other than involving non-human animals in some way.

Unfortunately, I don't remember what that was or where I saw it. I think I assumed it to be a commonly known fact when I saw it before, and expected to see it referred to again on various Therian FAQs, but I've seen no further reference to it since, and now it is only a shadow of a memory in my mind.

Vuldari wrote:Although "Therantropy" is frequntly used in R.P. circles as a species ambiguous alternative to "Lycanthropy" (btw... Lycan does NOT mean "Wolf"), I am not convinced that this is where the term originated from, but is merely where it was most popularly introduced into pop-vocabulary.

I seem to recall encountering the origin of the term once, and it was different from both the spiritual and metamorphic interpretations it is most frequently used for today, other than involving non-human animals in some way.

Unfortunately, I don't remember what that was or where I saw it. I think I assumed it to be a commonly known fact when I saw it before, and expected to see it referred to again on various Therian FAQs, but I've seen no further reference to it since, and now it is only a shadow of a memory in my mind.

Lycos Lycian what ever the reason for using lycan for wolf doesn't really matter, only that the term is used to refer to a werewolf.

My oldest recolection of seeing the term Therianthrope comes from roleplaying games. Not once in all the time I have looked into mythology and folklore have I ever come across the term or anything like it (other than lycanthropy) most places simply have other names for their shape shifters.
Which by the way never come in the form we see online and other medias using them.
We get two primary forms.
1: Sorcerer turning into animal form with magic/sorcerer cursing someone to take on an animal form.
or
2: magical animal now able to assume a human/human like form, such as a Bakeneko, Tanuki, Kitsune, Kimiho, ect.. and so on.

So the concept we call a therianthrope simply doesn't exist prior to the modern age. So either it was invented by gamers or was invented by someone else grouping together (alternatives to werewolves) and then adopted by Roleplayers.

However it came about its a very young term and every time I had seen its use prior to.... coming on here actually, it was used for alternative animals to the wolf for human to beast transformations.

Therian/Therianthrope... Possible explanations...

Therian(s): somebody who believes themselves to have an "Animal" spirit as part of their psyche, and tries to cultivate this spirit. It's really similar to the Amerindian "Spirit Seeking" that got you an adult name.
You feel as if you have a sort of kinship with a specific animal type or animal spirit.

Therianthrope(s): A manlike (anthropoid) therian. A distinction granted by another person.

They don't quite mean the same thing, but they are very, very close. Therian is a personal viewpoint, while Therianthrope is a social title, given as a desription of a person or persons.

One's external, one's internal. For all practical purposes they are almost the same, and mean almost the same thing and can be used more-or-less interchangably.

For this board's purposes; they are interchangable.

Now: Would a Werewolf be a therian? That depends on the spirituality of the Were' involved, IMHO. A Werewolf who felt that he/she shared soul-space with a Wolf-spirit would be a therian, under the above semi-definitions. Someone who was "cursed" with Lycanthropy and only took on the appearance and ferocity of a wolf-without the spiritual connection-wouldn't be a therian.

Now, how many Werewolves can dance on the head of a pin?

P.S.> I believe that Lycos is Greek for Lupus. A Lycanthrope is a Greek Werewolf, while a Homilupus is a Roman Werewolf. A Werewolf is an Anglic-Norse Lycanthrope. And I've blathered enough.

I take it these words can not be found in many dictionaries.
I thought that therian was associated with the word theory but I was probably thinking of the word theorist.
... ... ...

I didn't learn of therianthropy until I started going on to forums. I'd always wanted to find some sort of magic, and that eventually settled into a wish for shapeshifting. When I found therians on other boards, I realized that we had a lot in common, so I said "I guess I'm a Therian then." I don't actually feel that I have a wolf soul, so I suppose that I'm not a true therian, but I emulate wolf behavior and have a terrible yearning to slip into a wolf's body. But what I love the most is running through the forests near my home, and sometimes I feel that if I were a wolf I'd be able to gain so much more from those runs. Plus I want to feel special, though I don't like to think about that. I try and keep it from interfering with my life, and I haven't made a deal with the devil, so I suppose that my level of obsession is well enough in check. So there's the desires of my soul. Have fun with that .

You are both off base.
and the Navy seals argument doesn't make any sense other than that A Navy Seal is someone in the navy.

A werewolf. Anything that is a combination of man and wolf, having features of both can and is called a werewolf depending on the source.

If it were a soldier called a werewolf It wouldn't mean they were a wolf.

Its not the name that makes them what they are, its how the name is used with what is labled.

If I had a half human/half wolf hybrid creature that couldn't transform, someone might look at it and still call it a werewolf even if it lacks the power to transform.

In other words so long as your creature combines human traits with wolf traits someone can easily call it a werewolf.

Its a different world of thought all together than using animal names to apply to humans with a specific job where the animal name is used to distinquish the group as special and isn't physcially descriptive.

Which is what it comes down to.

a werewolf is a physically descriptive title.
a Navy Seal or Desert Rat type of name is not physically descriptive.

In other words.
Werewolf: human and wolf traits mixed.
Therianthrope: human and animal traits mixed.
Therian: person who makes a special connection with an animal.

So therian is more akin to Berserker (bear warrior) or simular such totem mind sets than either the werewolf or Navy Seal type usuages of animal and human descriptions.

Rhuen wrote:A werewolf. Anything that is a combination of man and wolf, having features of both can and is called a werewolf depending on the source.

No

[ Edit: "...depending on the source." True Enough. ]

Rhuen wrote:Its not the name that makes them what they are, its how the name is used with what is labled.

Hunh?

It's not the name that makes them what they are...what they actually ARE makes them what they are.

It's not the wording of the name that defines it's meaning...it is what it was meant to apply to when the word was coined that defines that.

"Werewolf" = The people/creatures in those old stories who turn into wolves, (and all of the traits they displayed in said stories).

"Navy Seal" = A specific class of Soldier of the US Navy trained to very high standards for very difficult types of missions.

Rhuen wrote:If I had a half human/half wolf hybrid creature that couldn't transform, someone might look at it and still call it a werewolf even if it lacks the power to transform.

Probably...but that would not make it TRUE.

Rhuen wrote:In other words so long as your creature combines human traits with wolf traits someone can easily call it a werewolf.

"Call it that" ... yes ... Make it a true statement ... no.

Rhuen wrote:a werewolf is a physically descriptive title.

No it isn't. Look it up. Choose whichever Dictionary or Encyclopedia you want to check.

It means a "Human shapeshifting wolf monster" everywhere except Wikipidia when referring to Therian and Furry fiction, or on Furry and Therian Websites in which they made up their own definition just because they like that better.

Rhuen wrote:In other words.
Werewolf: human and wolf traits mixed.
Therianthrope: human and animal traits mixed.
Therian: person who makes a special connection with an animal.

So therian is more akin to Berserker (bear warrior) or simular such totem mind sets than either the werewolf or Navy Seal type usuages of animal and human descriptions.

No, no, no, no, no...

You are just generalizing and making up whatever definition you like better.

The description of a "Therian" (an abbreviation used ONLY by the recent subculture, and not strictly connected to the original meaning), as someone with a special connection with an animal is the only wholely true statement you made. ...but your definitions of 'Werewolf' and 'Theriantrope' are inappropriately vague.

But comparing 'Therians' to 'Berserkers, as if they are essentially the same thing, is just not right, which makes your Therian definition flawed as well.



I'm sorry if I seem like a real jerk right now, but if anyone can decide a word can mean anything they want, then the word ceases to mean anything at all...

...and if words no longer mean anything, how can we possibly expect to understand each other.


Sometimes a Words definition needs to stay restrictive to very specific meanings. ...otherwise, it becomes increasingly difficult to convey specific concepts between each other.

And my plan has succeeded.

The term werewolf no longer means a damned thing other than wolf+man=what ever the hell anyone wants to think it is with those traits.

PS: a man shapeshifting into a wolf is a physical description as it means something becoming something else (a physical change not a mental one)

which is why they use Lycanthropy for clinical Lycanthropy as its not the monster "werewolf".

How we use words and what they come to mean changes dramatically from one context to the other, so no we can't understand each other ever. Two people hearing the same information at the same time in the same room can believe two completly different things from what was said.

Also a Berserker was a person who by wearing a bearskin believed they had the spirit of the bear in them and thus made them stronger and more wild. Thus the comparison.

My views on therians comes down to this.
I can teach my dog to stand up right and say "da, da" or "hello" but that doesn't make it human.
and imitation is not the same as the real thing no matter how much the imitater tries to be the real thing.

Rhuen wrote:How we use words and what they come to mean changes dramatically from one context to the other, so no we can't understand each other ever. Two people hearing the same information at the same time in the same room can believe two completly different things from what was said.

Which is why it is important to be clear as best as we can, and discourage the decay of literal definitions as often as we can, so that we can at least have some ghost of a chance of ever knowing what the heck any of us are talking about.

Rhuen wrote:Also a Berserker was a person who by wearing a bearskin believed they had the spirit of the bear in them and thus made them stronger and more wild. Thus the comparison.

I know what a Berserker is. That is more of a mental emulation / spiritual summoning/possession technique than the pseudo-religious spiritual displacement / personal association thing Therians have going on.

In both cases, the concept is a little more specific than just 'Man + Animal', even if that is one factor that is present in both.

Can we move this discussion to a different thread? It doesn't really fit here. In fact I'll make it myself.