THE PACK Message Boards

Templar wrote:Yep. La Guitarrista, Luna, all of what's-there-names, an' those in Peter Is The Wolf.

More stuff seems ta have female werewolves in it. Ginger Snaps, anyone??

That's not broad enough, you need to list all the names that has connotations to:

- Wolf or any other canine name.
- Moon.
- Howl.
- Bone.
- Fang & claws.

etc.

So that people would be encouraged to really RESEARCH MOAR. >:I

About werewolves not sounded like real wolves, I've seen that several times before.
If you watch the trailer for Big Bad Wolf, the werewolf roars like a...well, an animal that's not a wolf, basically. Maybe a bull or some sort of hoof animal.
And here's something interesting, I was watching the Disney movie The Wild and this wildebeast grunts and roars and I could've sworn it was the same sound bite as the wolf in Big Bad Wolf and American Werewolf In Paris.
So yeah, why would you give a werewolf sound bites from animals not from the canine family?

KittyRose wrote:About werewolves not sounded like real wolves, I've seen that several times before.
If you watch the trailer for Big Bad Wolf, the werewolf roars like a...well, an animal that's not a wolf, basically. Maybe a bull or some sort of hoof animal.
And here's something interesting, I was watching the Disney movie The Wild and this wildebeast grunts and roars and I could've sworn it was the same sound bite as the wolf in Big Bad Wolf and American Werewolf In Paris.
So yeah, why would you give a werewolf sound bites from animals not from the canine family?

Maybe they thought that the canine sounds just aren't werewolf-y enough, and the thought of "oh, i dunno, how about actually DISTORTING THE CANINE SOUNDS??" never came up in their minds.

It's exactly like my spoilt yuppie relative who buys music from expensive CD stores with lack of variety instead of a cheapo music shop that's got complete Lordi music in some corner of the store. I feel sorry for her.

It is the idea of making it more monster like by having not human or wolf sounds. But clearly it falls short of what the audience wants if so many point it out as a terrible cliche, in fact I am certain the roar thing has had its own threads before (and not just here).

If it made the growls and barks of dogs some may have felt it made it too much of an animal (film makers can be stupid this way) In Jurassic Park they cut out a scene from the script where they sneak past a sleeping T-rex because they felt the scene would make the audience view the T-rex as an animal and not the monster the wanted to portray (considering it really was an animal at one point I consider this a dick move).
and considering the second movie I think they must have gotten an ear full on decisions like that which is why they made them more animal like in the sequal.

A werewolf has the problem, humans and canines don't make the same sounds. In fact humans will roar (a harsh growl scream)when driven crazy and angry, so maybe that's where it comes from

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but how come the eyes are always the first thing to change? They either turn yellow or they start glowing red for some reason.

Oh, one more thing: If someone gets bitten by a werewolf, don't have him/her dream about turning into a werewolf from which they wake up prematurely by sitting up in bed in a cold sweat. That's so overdone it's just lame now.

Actually, I think the "Dream Sequence" wasn't even developed for Werewolf movies...as I recall, the first use was in the 1930 Dr. Jeckyll-Mr. Hyde picture. Lon Chaney (Sr.) played both Jeckyll and Hyde in that flic, as memory serves.

He thought is was just some bizare dreaming until one day he woke up with blood on his hands, and his walking stick was blood-covered as well.

Now, that is one Old cliche, recently adapted to Werewolf movies.
Hopefully, it will un-adapt just as easily; although I doubt it. Where else could the director do the long shots and the optical stuff that is so cliche' today in Horror/Fantasy stuff?
And, it does save dialogue...and scenes...and explanations...

Terastas wrote:I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but how come the eyes are always the first thing to change? They either turn yellow or they start glowing red for some reason.

Oh, f*** hell, that also frustrates me to s***.

Look, i don't mind about the eyes shifting first, that can sometimes be cool if it wasn't done by a complete amateur, even with the help of a $500,000 budget.

What i do give a damn is how werewolves almost always get yellow or red eyes, and then turn into some slobbering machinated chewing dog thing with too many facial wrinkles. Just like how all evil vampires would have red eyes just so they can be all menacing and primordially evil, with the exception of Hellsing's Alucard.

What is with this whole "red eyes equate to villain" horseshit? When will there ever be someone or something who has red eyes and ISN'T diabolical? Color Symbolism didn't state that the color red only as the color of anger and violence, you lazy asswipes. D:<

Oh, one more thing: If someone gets bitten by a werewolf, don't have him/her dream about turning into a werewolf from which they wake up prematurely by sitting up in bed in a cold sweat. That's so overdone it's just lame now.

I think over exaggeration of this scenario would be why this is such a cliche. At least that's what i think.

Red eyes, is an ancient cliche, I mean ancient literally as in first used in mythology ancient (all over the world even) and sometimes people who claim to see demons say they have red eyes. Its a deep psychological thing associated with blood lust, seeing red wanting to kill and make you bleed, pure hatred. So it gets used for that reason.

As for the eyes changing first, It always made sense to me, your eyes are fragile things and more prone to sudden changes in the body than anything else, so I would think that during a transformation the things to change first would be the paths of least resistance.

But what I find cliche is that the eyes almost never become dog eyes, wolves do not have oval pupils (a fox does but its not techniquelly a dog, but a group between dogs and cats genetically). In fact the eyes really shouldn't change much on the surface between human and dog except maybe get an eye shine and/or become yellow (mostly).

As for the eyes changing first, It always made sense to me, your eyes are fragile things and more prone to sudden changes in the body than anything else, so I would think that during a transformation the things to change first would be the paths of least resistance.

Yeah, I agree. Eyes are windows to the soul and all that afterall

But what I find cliche is that the eyes almost never become dog eyes, wolves do not have oval pupils (a fox does but its not techniquelly a dog, but a group between dogs and cats genetically). In fact the eyes really shouldn't change much on the surface between human and dog except maybe get an eye shine and/or become yellow (mostly).

Besides color change and being able to reflect light; the only other big change would be for the eyes to be rimmed with black. Dont know the technical term, you know, like black tear ducts and stuff

ust so we're clear, just because something is cliche doesn't mean it's lame and should never be done. I understand why the eyes shift first, but that's almost always how it's done.

Glowing eyes are another big cliche, especially red. So far the only time I've seen the glowing red eyes on anyone that wasn't trying to kill the protagonist was the merchant in Resident Evil 4.

The dream sequence can be applied to any monster, including werewolves. It's another one that can sometimes be effective, but has been done to death in other bad horror movies that it just screams "cliche!" now.

One thing that I think that is really over used is the silver thing....

Not in the sense that werewolves get burned and crap by it but it ALWAYS has to show one of the werewolves, whether new or old, picking up something silver or something like that and ya know "OMG that hurts!"

Thats retarded.....we get that werewolves dont like silver......I have seen it in like every movie

Most have already been said, though I can think of one or two...

- If there is a female werewolf, she will always make a reference to being a real b**** or how it's "that time of the month", despite those jokes having lost their effect long ago.

- The werewolf always becomes much stronger, faster, etc. in their human form after being bitten.

- The werewolf develops a craving for meat in human form.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before in another unrelated thread, but not here.

It seems that, after a werewolf enjoys a clueless nighttime drive-thru in the forest, which is something i find a bit stale, in a week or more, the werewolf will undergo an almost instantaneous diet and appetite change, and will almost always consume meat, and come to regurgitate anything else. Sometimes i'd find occasions that the consumed meat would be rare or plain raw.

This troubles me somewhat -- i could've sworn someone mentioned that real wolves digest certain plants to treat stomachaches and other ailments. So i want to know why, just because the tongue goes through variable amounts of change, that a werewolf would radically change their persective in food. Would it be really that difficult for a post-change werewolf to enjoy a bit of sushi? Or even a good bowl of homemade salad?

But then again, maybe this "cliche" happens for a reason. Maybe this sudden change of appetite would wear off overtime, and werewolves could have a chance to go back to enjoying seafood and veggies. I dunno.

EDIT: Dammit, Aki already mentioned it.

Aki: Don't forget how female werewolves who're described to be built "like a fox" are literally "real bitches".

Terastas: I just love that merchant guy. Nobody just knows what he really wants, and we're talking about the Plaga that took over the previous poor sod's body. IMO i think the glowing red eyes, and his fascination with money amplifies the kind of enigmatic vibe he gives off. So i have to agree, cliche's can actually work, with the right planning... I think.

EDITT: Another cliche.

Seems like many werefans just love their Native American/Tribal paraphernalia to stick on their werewolves. Nothing personal, Goldenwolf, but it's incredibly frustrating for me to cope with this. Note that i'm saying this nicely -- I actually have a vendetta-like hatred and bias towards this whole "hey, we've become werewolves now, we should be wearing tribal stuff just to look more Hippy!".

kitetsu wrote:Terastas: I just love that merchant guy. Nobody just knows what he really wants, and we're talking about the Plaga that took over the previous poor sod's body. IMO i think the glowing red eyes, and his fascination with money amplifies the kind of enigmatic vibe he gives off. So i have to agree, cliche's can actually work, with the right planning... I think.

On top of that, his clothing indicated him as being one of the Zealots; he had all those weapons and yet the rest of the plagas in the castle used nothing but medieval crap. We could probably start an entire thread in the VG section trying to figure out what was up with him.

Seems like many werefans just love their Native American/Tribal paraphernalia to stick on their werewolves. Nothing personal, Goldenwolf, but it's incredibly frustrating for me to cope with this. Note that i'm saying this nicely -- I actually have a vendetta-like hatred and bias towards this whole "hey, we've become werewolves now, we should be wearing tribal stuff just to look more Hippy!".

That is starting to borderline on cliche. Whenever werewolves are depicted as having even the slightest amount of culture or cultural interests, they are always either Celtic or Native American. I can understand that werewolves would be more inclined towards cultures with totemic and/or naturalistic spiritualism, but there are other cultures that had beliefs like that. How come you never see any werewolves into feng shui?

Terastas wrote:I can understand that werewolves would be more inclined towards cultures with totemic and/or naturalistic spiritualism, but there are other cultures that had beliefs like that. How come you never see any werewolves into feng shui?

Maybe because, stereotypically, Feng Shui is for dragons?

Thanks guys. Reading through this has kinda reminded me how many of these have been addressed for humorous purposes in Peter is the Wolf...

Let's see... Sarah, in her first transformation, screams "What's happening to me?"... and Peter & Jean remark about always laughing at that line.

Con Nero (uniformed police officer) shoots transformed Sarah through the heart with a lead bullet to stun her. Then of course, she *doesn't shift back.. they have to drag her into the back of a pickup truck to take her home.

The majority of the werewolves have not only unique fur patters, but also retain their hairstyles when in werewolf form...

And oddly, now that you mention it... nearly every werewolf in PitW was not only born a werewolf, but raised one. They had years to be taught about, and adapt to, their changes. That's just common sense. Unlike any other werewolf movie or book, it seems. There's a strong pack mentality, providing a community of support.

And I can't deal with the sewers either... they're hunting animals, they'd rather be in the city park, don't you think? A nice, lush forest? Maybe that's why there are all those "no tresspassing" signs around alot of municipal forested lots...

Hey BAr1, haven't seen ya for a while.

Terastas wrote:Glowing eyes are another big cliche, especially red. So far the only time I've seen the glowing red eyes on anyone that wasn't trying to kill the protagonist was the merchant in Resident Evil 4.

The Merchant creeps the hell out of me!

Well, back on topic. The thing with dogs barking at the person while they're in human form may be cliche, it can be very useful in certain plots and be quite funny. In my story, one character is constanly harrassed by dogs because she's a shrimp in wolf form. I hate cliches, but I absolutely love them the same.

Actually; in Con's case his hairline actually improves when he's all fuzzy and toothy. In Smooth-human- he's just a bit thin on top.

LightPaws wrote:Well, back on topic. The thing with dogs barking at the person while they're in human form may be cliche, it can be very useful in certain plots and be quite funny. In my story, one character is constanly harrassed by dogs because she's a shrimp in wolf form. I hate cliches, but I absolutely love them the same.

The thing about cliches is that, no matter how well they are delivered or how well they fit the circumstances, your audience will always recognize them immediately and more often than not roll their eyes at them. The only way I can think of to remedy that is to have someone acknowledge them as being cliche. One of the goto guys in the story I'm working on that I mentioned earlier, for example, has been with the pack so long that he tends to refer to a lot of things as "just like in the movies," or when it isn't a frequent movie cliche, "the daily crapfest."

Something else that bugs me about all horror movies in general is that, whatever the monster may be, the main characters often respond like there never were any other movies about that monster. You never heard anyone in Dog Soldiers or Cursed even make a passing reference to The Howling, The Company of Wolves, American Werewolf in London, Wildnerness, nada. Granted, I don't watch a lot of movies either, but I've at least heard of them. How come everyone that ever appears in these movies are complete and total shut-ins?

Yeah, you'd think with all the zombie games and movies around, people would know to shoot them in THE HEAD!

wolf4life wrote:Not in the sense that werewolves get burned and crap by it but it ALWAYS has to show one of the werewolves, whether new or old, picking up something silver or something like that and ya know "OMG that hurts!"

This kinda' goes along with that "never saw a werewolf movie" thing I mentioned. They know they are werewolves and they know that silver hurts werewolves, but just like when their parents told them not to stick their fingernails in electrical sockets, they have to try it and find out for themselves how much it hurts.

Heck, even the older werewolves fall for that every now and then. It's like a person with a sore tooth -- he just can't stop touching it.

For once, i just want to see a werewolf who wears silver like Mr. T.

kitetsu wrote:For once, i just want to see a werewolf who wears silver like Mr. T.

Closest thing to that I've seen so far was Alhelor, the Black Wolf in Chapter 2 of Neverwinter Nights. He runs an anti-lycanthropic merchant shop to throw suspicion away from him, as well as to build up a resistance to silver and belladonna.

But yeah, I prefer the whole "nitrate poisoning the bloodstream" definition as opposed to the "holy/pure object causing a burning sensation" story, so I see no reason why a werewolf wouldn't have a little silver on him. Heck, assuming most werewolf hunters just go by what they've seen in the movies, a silver charm could throw suspicion away from him.

Cleche's
Hollywood
That seems to cover it all.
(Hollywood Die! why does Hollywood screw up everything?)
That's what they do.
(But why? can't they give control of the movies over to those who know them best?)
He did remember. How do you explain this site?
(i feel stupid right now.)
Good.