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Since Id rather my werewolves to have colour vision, yet Id want them to see in the dark...

I guess I could compromise. Human form - colour vision. Perhaps even Gestalt, I dunno depends how I feel when writing the story haha! But wolf form, full quadruped form, perhaps they'd be more night vision.

It depends I mean if they can control the shift and if they keep human eyes, like many people seem to prefer, then it makes sense that they would have colour vision.

I like my rainbows okay!

Lupin wrote:

neoritter wrote: Most mammals do. Doesn't mean they see in color. Most canines are color blind save a few breeds of dogs.

While colorblind, dogs and wolves don't have purely grayscale vision. They're able to distinguish red from blue, and blue from violet in behavioral tests, but can't do red from green from yellow. They basically have deuteranopia.

I imagine that because blue and red are different enough shades of grey. That would not necessarily mean they can see blue or red.

In the story I wrote, Were's have a sort of Color Vision, but in pastels rather than in bright colors. Why? Because they have three times the number of Rods (Black and White, Low light) as a non Were' Human does.
They see in color, sort of; but they see in very little light in black and white...about the same amount of "Light Intensification" you'd get out of a good "gen. II" set of night vision goggles.

neoritter wrote:

Lupin wrote:

neoritter wrote: Most mammals do. Doesn't mean they see in color. Most canines are color blind save a few breeds of dogs.

While colorblind, dogs and wolves don't have purely grayscale vision. They're able to distinguish red from blue, and blue from violet in behavioral tests, but can't do red from green from yellow. They basically have deuteranopia.

I imagine that because blue and red are different enough shades of grey. That would not necessarily mean they can see blue or red.

Not exactly. It's fairly easy to produce two colors that have the similar luminance, but have different chrominance.

Like this:

Converted to grayscale:



'tis how humans are checked for color blindness.

Color vision at least to a high scale is limited to those animals that focus on light based sight. A wolf doesn't need it as much as a human, and a human doesn't need it as much as a boxing shrimp(or some simular animal whose exact name escapes me) (damn shrimp gets to see more colors than us )

So a werewolf if it has human eyes like many folklore versions should see as a human does. But more and more fantasy gives them wolf like eyes so should see as a wolf does or somewhere between the two.

Wolves don't have colour vision, so it would be logical to assume, that in wolf form, a werewolf also wouldn't have colour vision. There would be no lack of colour vision in human form though.

neoritter wrote:Thankyou for proving my point......

Proving your point wrong? Humans with color blindness have difficulty seeing the number because while the chrominance of the dots differ, the luminance does not, making it difficult to distinguish the number without full color vision. (Yes, the number becomes visible if you play around with your monitor setting enough. Not the point. One can't adjust an image so it looks the same on every conceivable monitor setting)

I really didn't think I would have to explain this....

A few posts back I said that red and blue are probably different enough shades of grey. Well, since red and green are hard to distinguish between for canines. Then we could assume here that red and green are not different enough shades of grey to make them easily distinguishable. What colors are in the picture you have? Shades of pink and orange. Colors that you would have to admit are close to red. What else? Shades of green. Well, notice in the grey scale picture the number 2 is not easily distinguishable. It would probably take someone an extra second to see the number if they had not seen the first picture. My point here is this. Even if someone or something is colorblind, red and blue would still be distinguishable because they are different enough. And just because someone or something can tell the difference does not make them any less colorblind. Here's a picture of blue circle, a red circle and a green circle and I have put their grey counterparts above them. Here:


I even gave your point some bias by making the blue a little lighter than normal and the red darker than normal. Yet you can still easily see the difference between the red and the blue grey circles. Unlike the green one. A smart enough dog could be taught to memorize or at least recognize the difference in color. Its not that hard.

Puzzled here: Are we talking about Wolves: real animals, or Werewolves: Fantastic not real Animals/people/whatevers?
Is it that important that Dogs (Genus Canis) can or can't see in color?
Since theoretically a Were' would have base Human eyes (Color sensitive), would those eyes change that much in the Shift that they become colorblind? I'd think that would be a real negative adaptation, unless there is a reason for it, like increased night vision...and even then you still have a color sensitive eye that is the basis for the conversion.
If there are gonna be changes like that, why not the actual motion sensing specialized cells that Wolves have in their eyes that are just that: "Hair-Trigger" cells for motion sensing along the periphery of the visual cone, which pull the eye over to "see" what just moved.
Since the Werewolf is still using the processing equipment that their "human" side uses, going to complete colorblindness would actually degrade the WW's vision, and vision processing, considerably
Just my two bits.

neoritter wrote:I really didn't think I would have to explain this....

A few posts back I said that red and blue are probably different enough shades of grey. Well, since red and green are hard to distinguish between for canines. Then we could assume here that red and green are not different enough shades of grey to make them easily distinguishable. What colors are in the picture you have? Shades of pink and orange. Colors that you would have to admit are close to red. What else? Shades of green. Well, notice in the grey scale picture the number 2 is not easily distinguishable. It would probably take someone an extra second to see the number if they had not seen the first picture. My point here is this. Even if someone or something is colorblind, red and blue would still be distinguishable because they are different enough. And just because someone or something can tell the difference does not make them any less colorblind. Here's a picture of blue circle, a red circle and a green circle and I have put their grey counterparts above them. Here:

Actually not quite. You've just put one set of gray counterparts up there. Here's another:



Notice that while the top row of circles are pure red, blue, and green, the brightness of the red and blue are the same, and that the gray counterparts are quite similar. (The K values vary by 2-3% on the red and blue circles, and less than that between red and green: This change represents a change in the process of how I made them, and not anything inherent to the colors themselves.) This is what I've been trying to explain. Color is not only based upon the different amounts of red, green. and blue light, but also on the overall brightness of the three colors together.

The values vary a lot. The brightness on the blue is 100, the red is 54, and the green's brightness is 31. Thats called altering the color to fit your result. My original were off by about 10 brightness each time. Also the grey's you have below that are fake. One they aren't the same grey as what the original colors are and all of them are exactly the same, leading me to believe you just picked a grey and made three circles.
Here's another set all 100 saturation and 100 brightness:



Notice less of a difference from my last one but still a significant enough difference.

PS - Don't quote the picture. And don't try to cheat again.

neoritter wrote:The values vary a lot. The brightness on the blue is 100, the red is 54, and the green's brightness is 31. Thats called altering the color to fit your result. My original were off by about 10 brightness each time. Also the grey's you have below that are fake. One they aren't the same grey as what the original colors are and all of them are exactly the same, leading me to believe you just picked a grey and made three circles.

All three of those are pure red blue and green, as I've said. Of course the color values differ, it's what I've been arguing the entire time. In a roundabout way, you've just proved your own ignorance about the physics of color, and my own point.

To anyone who still doesn't think that things with different chrominance (color) can have the same luminance (brightness), do this:

1) Open up my image in your image editor.
2) Set to grayscale mode.
3) Notice that all the circles are the same color.


I found three colors with all of the same K values (~45%), copy merged the picture, opened it up in a new document, changed it to gray scale mode, copied the new image and put it into the old document. My process is completely transparent. That can't be said for you.

PS - Don't quote the picture. And don't try to cheat again.

Funny you accuse me of doing the exact thing you did, this is what I get when I grayscale your image in Photoshop:



I was going to be nice about it, but hey, if that's the way you want to play.

I only have one thing to say about all of this.

Ow...my eyes...

Werewolf, in Fur: "Honestly, Officer: being a Werewolf , I'm colorblind! I really didn't see that red light!"
Police Officer: "You saw where the light was, didn't you? At the top of the lights?"
Werewolf: "Well, now that you mention it..." (Does sad puppy look)
Police Officer: "Just pay the fine. Don't think you can get out of it: the Judge and I both go to the same Howl at the Full Moon, and we know where the red light is on any traffic signal. Just sign here, please.
Werewolf: (Whines) "Jus' ain't fair..." (Signs ticket)

Taken from a wolf zoology page
Sight


The wolf relies on its sense of hearing as well as smell more so than sight. Their vision is comparable to that of humans. The wolfs eyes lacks a foveal pit. A depression at the back of the eyeball. This is what is used to focus at greater distances. It is believed that they can not distinguish much beyond 100 to 150 feet. This is possibly one reason why the wolf mask accents their facial features and ears so greatly. Their myopia evidently stems from the absence of the fovea centralis, the tiny pit at the back, center of the retina which, in humans, primates and some other animals provides the point of sharpest vision. Just how clearly a wolf sees when looking directly at an object is, of course, impossible to know, but it seems evident that beyond a short distance their vision must be somewhat blurred, rather like that of a photograph taken with a wide-open lens at a slow shutter speed, as opposed to an exposure taken with the smallest lens aperture at a fast speed. Nevertheless, wolves can see shapes and, especially, movement over long distances, and their peripheral vision is extremely accurate. They are able to detect even the slightest movements of very small animals, such as a mosquito, at a distance of more than ten feet and the movement of larger animals at considerable distances. There is some controversy as to whether wolves see in color or black and white. Regardless, it is unlikely that they see the various hues of the spectrum as humans see them, because the physical makeup of the eye is different. Nighttime vision for wolves is many times better than human vision in the day or night. Wolves can actually see much better and even much more clearly at night. The eyes of the wolf are like most predators, with a sight-field of nearly 180 degrees and pointed forward.


(In otherwords) we don't know if it sees in color or black and white. Simular enough to ours to guess it sees some colors but different enough to know it doesn't see as many as us.

If you don't mind Rhuen, could you provide a link to the website? Thnx.

My bad
here
http://www.wolfsource.org/anatomy.html

Yes and no. Canines are red-green color blind. Not in black and white like some may think. They actually see in shades of brown and blue. So I think they should see in SOME color.. but not totally to give up some of their wolfy qualities.

How about a permanent change in color vision when bitten/Scr--ed/ or otherwise Crossed over? Base Lifeform: Homo Sapiens Simiensis, mut. to Homo Sapiens Lupens.
Base lifeform has full color vision, with depth of field and appx. 160 degrees of vision, 120 degrees of which is stereoptic with depth perception. That's Man.
The Were' gives up about 25% of his/her color vision and converts the Cones (Color) into Rods (B+W). This gives a Werewolf pastel color vision, and superior night vision. How much better? Like a good gen. 1 or cheap/early Gen 2 night vision system. This means that Full Moon is like Full Daylight, just in monotone.
Rods "see" in a binary fashion: either there IS or IS NOT light striking it so it either generates a signal or doesn't. Luminance makes for grey-scale sensing (we ARE an analog lifeform, remember) The Daytime Were' sees in color, but in a lighter saturation of color, because there are fewer color sensing Cones in their eyes. This actually gets them the best of both worlds, with the same equipment and at the least cost biologocally.
Because we are adaptive cusses, after a few weeks, the Were' wouldn't notice the color difference: it would appear as normal.

Well i don't really get how to quote people an make the box things but I think I can do without that ok. I think werewolves should be able to see the in atleast a little reds and blues ect. since they are part human.

Humans can see in all colors and wolves seen in most colors combined would I suppose be able to see in all colors but some just don't come in very well or something like that.

Why wouldn't werewolves be able to see the same way a human would? They shifted from a human form, so does that mean everything changes? No I can't understand this one here..Not everything is wolfy with a werewolf..

you forget, that even though they have wolf charactoristics, they are not completely wolf, so why would they not see in color because they have some human characteristics. After all survival of the fitest.