Death and Remains

[WolfVanZandt]

Well, as to origin, if you want to retain as much RL as practical, the earliest firm mention of Werewolves was Heroditus' ention of the Neuri and they lived just north of the Black Sea and they were shamanic.

[Vuldari]

I don't like the virus theory myself.

True as it may be that it makes WereWolves seem less romantic to use the Virus theory, rejecting it raises a new question. If Werewolves are an evolved species seperate from Humans or Wolves and there is NO virus, then why are they "contagious"? (Why does a human become a Werewolf when bitten?)

If it is a dormant gene which exists within a large fraction of humans which is merely "awakened" by a WW bite, why does this dormant Human Gene transform them into Wolves and not Apes (like our ancestors).? How did this WOLF gene get into HUMAN DNA?

On the Main topic:
When a Werewolf passes away, I agree that it's body would stop shifting and it would remain in whatever form it died in.

As for religion and beliefs, "religion" is a Human thing. As Werewolves are at least half human, I would imagine that most Religious Werewolves would either follow existing human failths, or have shadow religions based dirrectly off of them.

Likewise, I would expect many WereWolves to follow the same, or similar rituals following the passing of one of their own, even burying their loved ones in the same cemeteries (or "burial grounds")as normal humans.

(...that is not to say that I don't think that some WW's would have their own "sacred" places and rituals. ...just that not all of them would choose to follow the WW beliefs. Why NOT a Jewish or buddhist Werewolf?)

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Moreover, I think very few Werewolves would be atheists. Lycanthropy is to "Spiritual" to allow them that. Still, many of them could be Agnostics from the reason Figarou gave.

...oohh. I just learned a new word. I have been saying that I am an "Atheist" for years now, but what I have really meant to say,(and did not know it), was that I am an "Agnostic".


I learn something new every day.

[Figarou]

I don't like the virus theory myself.

True as it may be that it makes WereWolves seem less romantic to use the Virus theory, rejecting it raises a new question. If Werewolves are an evolved species seperate from Humans or Wolves and there is NO virus, then why are they "contagious"? (Why does a human become a Werewolf when bitten?)

Good question. Maybe to populate the werewolf community more quickly. But these are lesser werewolves. Not the same as pure born werewolves.

If it is a dormant gene which exists within a large fraction of humans which is merely "awakened" by a WW bite, why does this dormant Human Gene transform them into Wolves and not Apes (like our ancestors).? How did this WOLF gene get into HUMAN DNA?

I don't think its a "dormant" wolf gene in the human. The werewolf's bite rewrites the human gene.

As for religion and beliefs, "religion" is a Human thing. As Werewolves are at least half human, I would imagine that most Religious Werewolves would either follow existing human failths, or have shadow religions based dirrectly off of them.

Over time, werewolves may have developed their own religion and belief. Passing it down to a pure born werewolf will be simple. But a human that was bitten will probably not accept what has become of himself and may not take in the beliefs of the werewolf.

[Vuldari]

Good question. Maybe to populate the werewolf community more quickly. But these are lesser werewolves. Not the same as pure born werewolves.

I don't think its a "dormant" wolf gene in the human. The werewolf's bite rewrites the human gene. .

Okay. If there is no virus, then "HOW" are they contagious?

*random brainstorming*(It's like Werewolves are the Borg. They "assimilate" new members rather than take the trouble of birthing new ones. Could Werewolves, like the Borg, not be naturally evolved, but rather, artifically created?...like, someone, sometime MADE himself a Werewolf? No...that woudn't make sense if WW's are supposed to be an ancient race. That kind of science doesn't even exist now, let alone hundreds of thousands of years ago. Of course, we could always just say it's "MAGIC", and avoid trying to rationalize it alltogether. ...but what would be the fun in that? ;) )

Over time, werewolves may have developed their own religion and belief. Passing it down to a pure born werewolf will be simple. But a human that was bitten will probably not accept what has become of himself and may not take in the beliefs of the werewolf.

Do Africans only follow beliefs founded by Africans? Do all people of Native American decent beleive as their forefathers did?

Though religions and beliefs would surely be created and passed on by WW's, the fact is, even "pure born" would live among more humans that other WW's. This ovewhelming influence would guarantee a great deal of overlap between the traditions of WW's and their Human neighbors.

If they have existed together this long, their history would be the same history, and thier beliefs would have developed parrallel to that of the rest of the "normals".

Unless WW's were somehow completely seperated from the rest of the human race when the concept of religion was first inspired, the sources of their beliefs would inevitably be the same.

Edit: Maybe I should rephrase my comment and say the Werewolves beliefs would not be "Based off of" Human ones (as if they were just copying humans), but rather that they would be "Variations" of the same beliefs and faiths that normal humans follow. (As in, they agree on some basic points, as Jews, Christians and Muslims do. Different...while still based off of the same origin.)

[Figarou]

Good question. Maybe to populate the werewolf community more quickly. But these are lesser werewolves. Not the same as pure born werewolves.

I don't think its a "dormant" wolf gene in the human. The werewolf's bite rewrites the human gene. .

Okay. If there is no virus, then "HOW" are they contagious?

*random brainstorming*(It's like Werewolves are the Borg. They "assimilate" new members rather than take the trouble of birthing new ones. Could Werewolves, like the Borg, not be naturally evolved, but rather, artifically created?...like, someone, sometime MADE himself a Werewolf? No...that woudn't make sense if WW's are supposed to be an ancient race. That kind of science doesn't even exist now, let alone hundreds of thousands of years ago. Of course, we could always just say it's "MAGIC", and avoid trying to rationalize it alltogether. ...but what would be the fun in that? ;) )

Over time, werewolves may have developed their own religion and belief. Passing it down to a pure born werewolf will be simple. But a human that was bitten will probably not accept what has become of himself and may not take in the beliefs of the werewolf.

Do Africans only follow beliefs founded by Africans? Do all people of Native American decent beleive as their forefathers did?

Though religions and beliefs would surely be created and passed on by WW's, the fact is, even "pure born" would live among more humans that other WW's. This ovewhelming influence would guarantee a great deal of overlap between the traditions of WW's and their Human neighbors.

If they have existed together this long, their history would be the same history, and thier beliefs would have developed parrallel to that of the rest of the "normals".

Unless WW's were somehow completely seperated from the rest of the human race when the concept of religion was first inspired, the sources of their beliefs would inevitably be the same.

Warning warning!! Overload!!! Brain malfunction!! All systems shuting down.

Reboot.......

System check.......ok


Oh man!! Enough with the questions. I have a set of my own that no one wants to answer.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4939#4939

[Vuldari]

Oh man!! Enough with the questions. I have a set of my own that no one wants to answer.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4939#4939

Evolve...hmmmm. This will get your gears grinding.

Which of the species evolved? Did the human evolve to become the shapeshifter or was it the wolf?

Seeing as how Humans are the only species that seem to be affected by a Werewolves bite(let's just assume this for now), it would be logical to say that it originated with the human.

Or was the shapeshifter something that wasn't wolf or human to begin with? Is the virus the shapeshifter? Where did it come from? How did it evolve? Which species did it pick, the human or wolf?

...okay. Now you are making MY head hurt.
Are we taling a third entity here?

*brainstorming again*...like, a sybiotic lifeform which survives by changing it's hosts form into a stronger one, based upon the strongest traits it picked up from it's previous hosts. In the beginning, it only passed from wolf to wolf, but at some point one of these symbiots mutated and became compatable with Human DNA, and when it tried to reform it's new host into an ideal wolf like it's species normally does...Well.

...I think of the strangest things while i'm trippin on FLU medicine. *cough*...."Whooooooaaaaahhhhh......"

[Figarou]

...I think of the strangest things while i'm trippin on FLU medicine. *cough*...."Whooooooaaaaahhhhh......"

Well, whatever it is you're taking, I'm going to need some of it myself!!

[WolfVanZandt]

Hmmmmm....well I'm not bold enough to say that wolves have religion but I'm wondering how people can justify the opinion that they don't.

[Figarou]

Oh man!! Enough with the questions. I have a set of my own that no one wants to answer.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4939#4939

Evolve...hmmmm. This will get your gears grinding.

Which of the species evolved? Did the human evolve to become the shapeshifter or was it the wolf?

Seeing as how Humans are the only species that seem to be affected by a Werewolves bite(let's just assume this for now), it would be logical to say that it originated with the human.

Evolution consists of adapting with the environment. In what way was it necessary to become a werewolf to adapt to the environment?

[Figarou]

Hmmmmm....well I'm not bold enough to say that wolves have religion but I'm wondering how people can justify the opinion that they don't.

ever seen a wolf pray?

[Vuldari]

Hmmmmm....well I'm not bold enough to say that wolves have religion but I'm wondering how people can justify the opinion that they don't.

It is unlikely most wolves have ever stoped to consider," what am I, where did I came from and why am I here?". They usually would have other, simpler things to worry about, like "when will I catch my next meal?"

However, you are right WolfVanZandt...no one can proove that they haven't.

[Figarou]

Hmmmmm....well I'm not bold enough to say that wolves have religion but I'm wondering how people can justify the opinion that they don't.

It is unlikely most wolves have ever stoped to consider," what am I, where did I came from and why am I here?". They usually would have other, simpler things to worry about, like "when will I catch my next meal?"

However, you are right WolfVanZandt...no one can proove that they haven't.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4945#4945

[WolfVanZandt]

But Figarou, how do you know that?

[Figarou]

But Figarou, how do you know that?

Ok, reigion means that there has to be some type of ritual. It just depends on where you are from. For example, going to church on Sunday.


What does a wolf do to exhibit signs of a ritual? Like I said earlier. Ever seen a wolf pray?

[WolfVanZandt]

The reason I'm not ready to make a firm statement that wolves have no religion is that I don't know what a wolf would look like when he's praying. Wolves do have rituals, like the group greeting. Much of the behavior there is ritualized such as licking the alpha's mouth. That is done by juveniles to cause a grown wolf to regurgitate. We can only speculate as to why adult wolves would do it to each other. If you say, "instinct" then how can you differentiate between instinct and ritualized behavior?

In order to ultimately decide whether wolves indulge in religious speculation is to ask one and, until we figure out how to communicate with them, that's out.

[Figarou]

Oh, one more thing. What if wolves did have a religion. How will the humans react to it? Will the human hand the wolf a bible and say "You need to believe in our religion."


Thats how it was with the indians when the settlers came.




Edit
corrected spelling.

I need to learn how to type better with these claws.

[WolfVanZandt]

Heh. Let's hope humans don't find out.

[Figarou]

The reason I'm not ready to make a firm statement that wolves have no religion is that I don't know what a wolf would look like when he's praying. Wolves do have rituals, like the group greeting. Much of the behavior there is ritualized such as licking the alpha's mouth. That is done by juveniles to cause a grown wolf to regurgitate. We can only speculate as to why adult wolves would do it to each other. If you say, "instinct" then how can you differentiate between instinct and ritualized behavior?

In order to ultimately decide whether wolves indulge in religious speculation is to ask one and, until we figure out how to communicate with them, that's out.

Sure, wolves have their own rituals. I was reffering to praying and such.


As for instinct, wolves are born with it. They are not born with beliefs.

[WolfVanZandt]

Humans are also born with instincts; they're just partially or completely maked by the "higher brain". And humans aren't born with beliefs; they learn those.

[Figarou]

Humans are also born with instincts; they're just partially or completely maked by the "higher brain". And humans aren't born with beliefs; they learn those.

Take a look at what I said here.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4922#4922


I said

One can only believe by what is taught to that individual.

[WolfVanZandt]

Aye, you're right.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Oh man!! Enough with the questions. I have a set of my own that no one wants to answer.

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4939#4939

Evolve...hmmmm. This will get your gears grinding.

Which of the species evolved? Did the human evolve to become the shapeshifter or was it the wolf?

Seeing as how Humans are the only species that seem to be affected by a Werewolves bite(let's just assume this for now), it would be logical to say that it originated with the human.

Evolution consists of adapting with the environment. In what way was it necessary to become a werewolf to adapt to the environment?

An enviroment consists of everything within it. Off the top of my head I would say being able to grow your own fur coat during the ice age would be a def. plus. Not to mention more highly developed senses would allow them to escape danger and to hunt far more effectivly than a naked ape could. Man without his tools is quite pitiful......

As far as interprepting some wolf behavior as prayer, what about howling ? We only partially understand wolf lingustics , there are times when even the experts can't explain why a wolf howls at the paticular time. Singing is one of the most primitive means of prayer, but if your looking for a kneeling wolf with head bowed it's not likley to happen.

An idea, most films and legends portray the werewolf as an enemy and so the wolf as well. Perhaps humans had to evolve to escape an obviously superior predator, a caveman with club and spear wouldn't stand much chance against a werewolf.

[Figarou]

As far as interprepting some wolf behavior as prayer, what about howling ? We only partially understand wolf lingustics , there are times when even the experts can't explain why a wolf howls at the paticular time. Singing is one of the most primitive means of prayer, but if your looking for a kneeling wolf with head bowed it's not likley to happen.

Howling is used for commuication by letting others know of their presence.

[Apokryltaros]

An enviroment consists of everything within it. Off the top of my head I would say being able to grow your own fur coat during the ice age would be a def. plus. Not to mention more highly developed senses would allow them to escape danger and to hunt far more effectivly than a naked ape could. Man without his tools is quite pitiful......

...

An idea, most films and legends portray the werewolf as an enemy and so the wolf as well. Perhaps humans had to evolve to escape an obviously superior predator, a caveman with club and spear wouldn't stand much chance against a werewolf.

Which was why we pitiful humans mastered fire.

[Vuldari]

Evolution consists of adapting with the environment. In what way was it necessary to become a werewolf to adapt to the environment?

Evolution does not quite work that way. There is no hidden switch in the genes of a prey species that makes it's young faster when it's kind are being wiped out by speedy predators. It is sheer dumb luck that the course of normal variation and mutation creates a faster offspring, and in the next generation, that one lives to pass on it's swift mutation to the rest of the species, while the others lacking this mutation get eaten and don't pass on thier NON speedy genes.

Species are mutating and spawning variations all of the time. It just so happens that the critters that grew stronger, armor-like skin froze to death when there was a sudden cold snap, while the ones that happened to have thicker fur coats than usual survived.

Evolution runs into dead ends sometimes, like unneccesary increases in size, which results in the creature requiring more food to survive and so it starves to death when food becomes scarce. Changes in the physical or mental characteristics of a species are not allways benificial. They just happen.

It is not that it became "necessary" to become a werewolf to survive...it is that, when someone became the beginning of what a WW is today(by freak chance), it was ABLE to survive.

Likewise, changes that make a species stronger can happen with no apparent reason. Human "prodogys" with exceptional intelligence or talents are born all the time. They would have survived just fine had they not been born geniuses...it was not "neccesary"... yet, it happened anyway.

It seems absurd to suggest that any creature could "accidentally" spawn shapeshifting variants of itself, but then, it also seems just as unbelievable to look at how land based Lizards in the jurrasic era somehow spawned decendants with wings and feathers, or how land mammals became sea goers like Dolphins and Whales.

..."evolution" is a very strange thing.

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Edit: Why did I write all of that as if I thought no one here knew how evolution works? It might be because I'm concieted...or maybe it is that I just enjoy explaining things for some reason. Perhaps I should consider becoming a school teacher.

....Naaaaahhh...Kids give me a migrane.