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Do realize that there have been no fossils of Homo habilis ever found in Siberia.

I figured out the source. It's a bit pricy.

http://www.engrish.com/recent_detail.ph ... 2005-07-08

With a price like that, yes, I'd say it's cursed.

Well, at least it comes with a drink.

Lupin wrote:Well, at least it comes with a drink.

and dessert!!!!

I read a book not that long ago called "The Wolfen" written by Whitley Streiber. I recommend to anyone who likes to read werewolf books. But in this book the author described werewolves as a sub species of canines that had evolved very quickly, giving them great intelligence. Becuse of their great intelligence they learned to hide themselves, feeding off the sick and weak. As human society grew they moved into the abondoned parts of huge cities eating off the homeless druggies and hookers. Since no one cared what happened to the dregs of society they flourished like that. When one of their numbers died, they would eat everything and crack open the bones as well. Making it almost impossible to tell that it wasn't a normal wolf skeleton.

Note: In this book, werewolves didn't transform from human to wolf. The large canine like weres had opposible thumbs and are just as smart as us.

And as a side note, the book also described vampires. I just wanted to add this because I thought it was a really interesting idea. A vampire was a human who had learned to communicate with the weres and at night would run and feed with them, eating the raw flesh and drinking the blood. I thought it was a neat look at how vampires fit in with weres.

Apokryltaros wrote:Do realize that there have been no fossils of Homo habilis ever found in Siberia.

Yes, though they have been found in more souther parts of Asia. I didn't say it was a perfect theory, just one that allows for nearly all fictional versions of lycanthropy to co-exist.

I'm certainly willing to modify it as needed, though I'd rather keep the habilis, since they were the first known to domesticate canines.

Mercedes_Maxwell wrote:I read a book not that long ago called "The Wolfen" written by Whitley Streiber. I recommend to anyone who likes to read werewolf books. But in this book the author described werewolves as a sub species of canines that had evolved very quickly, giving them great intelligence. Becuse of their great intelligence they learned to hide themselves, feeding off the sick and weak. As human society grew they moved into the abondoned parts of huge cities eating off the homeless druggies and hookers. Since no one cared what happened to the dregs of society they flourished like that. When one of their numbers died, they would eat everything and crack open the bones as well. Making it almost impossible to tell that it wasn't a normal wolf skeleton.

Note: In this book, werewolves didn't transform from human to wolf. The large canine like weres had opposible thumbs and are just as smart as us.

And as a side note, the book also described vampires. I just wanted to add this because I thought it was a really interesting idea. A vampire was a human who had learned to communicate with the weres and at night would run and feed with them, eating the raw flesh and drinking the blood. I thought it was a neat look at how vampires fit in with weres.

Read it, loved it. Much better than the movie, but the movie is still a favorite of mine, too.

In my theory, the wolves that adapted were bitten by human werewolves with the retro virus. Streiber's vampires are of the 'living' variety, which actually makes them ghouls, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

My own main storyline project works with the ideas of it being a genetic engineering experiment by an alien civilization whose biology and thought processes are highly different from ours. They did it in an effort to figure out how magic worked--humans have a lot of will and motivation, but very little attunement. Wolves have attunement but are generally content just to live wild. Combining the two, the beings, who describe themselves as if they were the single being "Four One," hoped to create something that has both a lot of will and a lot of attunement, and could thus manifest strong magical or psychic abilities, so they could study it up close.

The end result is a bit of a mess throughout human history, culminating in mass chaos in the near future, when humans collectively become aware of at least some of what's been going on. Werewolves go public in my short stories, set after a big revealing at the end of 2012. In the second novel, Four One shows up in a form the size of a small moon, demanding answers without clarifying the question. (No, Scott Gardener and Elodea Taylor, my lead werewolves, don't go back in time to San Francisco to find a pair of gray wolves to communicate with the alien probe.)

Don't know how well this could fit into your Lovecraft-based timeline, since my beings aren't bourne of that mythos, and have a different sense of aesthetics. But, with a little tweaking, I suppose the two could blend pretty well.

I agree about the mystery thing. Any plotline that explains the origins of werewolves has to be handled with delicate finesse, and would be the subject of an entire movie unto itself. Since werewolves are not that believable as compared to many other fantastical things, the explanations for why they exist (not "how they work" which is completely different and is necessary for any coherent storytelling) have a tendency to only draw attention to how unbelievable werewolves are, to spread cheese over the entire production and detract from the story.

The most believable purely physical explanation involves aliens in some way (either via genetic engineering, nanotechnology, weird alien biology or some combination therof). And having aliens and werewolves in the same piece of fiction tends to jolt most people's sense of genre. Aliens belong to the science fiction world of the future, werewolves belong to the magical world of folklore and the past. It is awkward, and requires much skill, to mix aliens and werewolves.

And, as far as magical or supernatural explanations go, they are much the same as the "mystery" angle. After all, to paraphrase the anomalist and Fortean scholar Jerome Clark, calling something supernatural is often just a form of labeling it as something we don't understand. And if you do go for a more complicated magical explanation, then you can easily lose your audience in the mechanics of it, once again causing attention to be drawn to the unbelievable qualities of werewolves and making it difficult to suspend disbelief.

Scott Gardener wrote:Don't know how well this could fit into your Lovecraft-based timeline, since my beings aren't bourne of that mythos, and have a different sense of aesthetics. But, with a little tweaking, I suppose the two could blend pretty well.

There are two ways such a merging of ideas could go, as I see it.

1. The aliens that experimented on the humans were actually experimenting on hybrids that already contained the "therianthrope" DNA (please note that this is NOT a reference to modern therianthropy in which biological humans contain the essence or soul of an animal). This makes your werewolves a single offshoot of my own version of lycanthropy.

2. The humans that were mated with the 'demons' were already genetically altered by aliens, which made them biologically superior to standard humans anyway (hence the reason they were selected). This makes my werewolves offshoots of your version of lycanthropy.

There is of course a third way they can both be right. Simply, they are two sides of the same story. Perhaps these 'demons' were actually aliens, and the story of "Numi-Taris" is but a legend inspired by real life. Or the aliens were really supernatural in origin, but modern science understands them to be aliens because no one accepts magic anymore.

This is probably the most logical way to do it, but it means that if one scratched the surface deep enough, only one of the theories would turn out to contain the correct details. Luckily my material doesn't cover time travel, so I doubt anyone will ever scratch this particular surface.

If one does go for the "aliens" approach, or any other sci-fi-ish method, or for that matter just about any method, the explanation should be done slowly, rather than dumping the whole explanation at once. Werewolves by design invite a sense of mystery. Some of the crappiest werewolf movies are made so by killing that sense of mystery. (OK, or by bad effects, horrific acting, or a lousy script.)

One of the reasons that The X Files was so popular was that it did gradually reveal an underlying common storyline, slowly drawing the viewer into the inner secrets, but over the course of years. And, its storyline had some unexpected twists--the aliens weren't your now stock Ufology "Grays" and lizards.

Scott Gardener wrote:If one does go for the "aliens" approach, or any other sci-fi-ish method, or for that matter just about any method, the explanation should be done slowly, rather than dumping the whole explanation at once. Werewolves by design invite a sense of mystery. Some of the crappiest werewolf movies are made so by killing that sense of mystery. (OK, or by bad effects, horrific acting, or a lousy script.)

Oh I agree. No matter which way you do the origin, no story should just blurt it out. My theory isn't intended to appear as-is in a single story, but be revealed over the course of a 20+ year search for the truth. And even then I don't intend to offer 'proof' that this is for sure the final answer, it merely represents the best guess for my characters efforts to put together a "Unified Field Therianthropy"

Scott Gardener wrote:One of the reasons that The X Files was so popular was that it did gradually reveal an underlying common storyline, slowly drawing the viewer into the inner secrets, but over the course of years. And, its storyline had some unexpected twists--the aliens weren't your now stock Ufology "Grays" and lizards.

And they didn't stick to only the UFO/conspiracy storyline either; it was often present only in the background, if that much.

So, the way I see it, there are several different possibilities for the origin of the virus that makes werewolves werewolves. If you think of any more, post away.

1. Naturally Occuring
The virus has been around since the beginning of man, and is the reason for all of the old werewolf myths. It still exists today.

2. Manmade
Inspired by the old werewolf myths (which were just that...myths and nothing more) a scientist decides to take a crack at creating a werewolf-inducing virus. I kinda like this one, because then the werewolf is subject to human ingenuity, not just nature. Also, the vast majority of viruses that are naturally occuring are not beneficial, but humans are capable of engineering retroviruses for gene therapy that are beneficial. So, it almost seems more likely that a beneficial virus would be manmade. Anyway, in this possibility, the naturally occuring virus could still exist, along with the manmade one. I'm not sure how long the manmade virus will have been around. Obviously, the scientist's research would have been more advanced than all science at the time, so it really could have happened in a very long time range. So, the manmade virus could actually have been around a while.

3. With Supernatural Bonuses
The virus is naturally occuring, but it isn't the only thing that makes a werewolf a werewolf. The virus triggers supernatural changes and powers. (Terrible Example from the Exorcism of Emily Rose: [spoiler]Remember how that weird doctor lady said that those pills are what made Emily remain possessed by demons, and are what caused the exorcism not to work? [/spoiler] This is just an example of a way that science can affect the supernatural. Yeah, I know it's from a movie, but whatever...). Perhaps the werewolf virus essentially 'opens the floodgates' to a whole new supernatural power, in which the werewolf is not entirely subject to the laws of the natural world. In this scenario, realism can almost be thrown out the window, though perhaps not entirely. They can be extrememly strong, extremely fast, and can pull a lot of mass out of nowhere. I'm not saying that any of these things would occur, but they could, if the werewolf was influenced by supernatural forces. In this scenario, it is more likely that they are highly sensitive to silver, sorta like vampires are sensitive to crosses, because of supernatural reasons.


Anyway, these ideas don't necessarily apply to Freeborn, but perhaps they could. Mention in your post whether you are referring to Freeborn werewolves or just in general. If you have any other ideas as to where the virus might come from, post 'em. I kinda favor 3, with 2 being second, and 1 last. I'm not looking for which one you think is most likely, because they're all pretty unlikely anyway, I just want your thoughts about them. You can choose a favorite if you wish, or you can just give your thoughts about all of them.

This thread does not exist for the purposes of making decisions for Freeborn or any other movie or book. I just wanna hear opinions.

Here's four pages of similar discussion:

http://www.calypso-blue.com/werewolf/vi ... .php?t=477

I don't blame ya' for missing it, being as the title is mis-spelled...

-- Vilkacis

oops. Thanks!

Excelsia wrote:oops. Thanks!

All that typing just to find out its been already discussed.



Good info, by the way.

Hey, I made a new thread about this without knowing this topic was here. Anyway, here is what I put in my first post:

Excelsia wrote:So, the way I see it, there are several different possibilities for the origin of the virus that makes werewolves werewolves. If you think of any more, post away.

1. Naturally Occuring
The virus has been around since the beginning of man, and is the reason for all of the old werewolf myths. It still exists today.

2. Manmade
Inspired by the old werewolf myths (which were just that...myths and nothing more) a scientist decides to take a crack at creating a werewolf-inducing virus. I kinda like this one, because then the werewolf is subject to human ingenuity, not just nature. Also, the vast majority of viruses that are naturally occuring are not beneficial, but humans are capable of engineering retroviruses for gene therapy that are beneficial. So, it almost seems more likely that a beneficial virus would be manmade. Anyway, in this possibility, the naturally occuring virus could still exist, along with the manmade one. I'm not sure how long the manmade virus will have been around. Obviously, the scientist's research would have been more advanced than all science at the time, so it really could have happened in a very long time range. So, the manmade virus could actually have been around a while.

3. With Supernatural Bonuses
The virus is naturally occuring, but it isn't the only thing that makes a werewolf a werewolf. The virus triggers supernatural changes and powers. (Terrible Example from the Exorcism of Emily Rose: [spoiler]Remember how that weird doctor lady said that those pills are what made Emily remain possessed by demons, and are what caused the exorcism not to work? [/spoiler] This is just an example of a way that science can affect the supernatural. Yeah, I know it's from a movie, but whatever...). Perhaps the werewolf virus essentially 'opens the floodgates' to a whole new supernatural power, in which the werewolf is not entirely subject to the laws of the natural world. In this scenario, realism can almost be thrown out the window, though perhaps not entirely. They can be extrememly strong, extremely fast, and can pull a lot of mass out of nowhere. I'm not saying that any of these things would occur, but they could, if the werewolf was influenced by supernatural forces. In this scenario, it is more likely that they are highly sensitive to silver, sorta like vampires are sensitive to crosses, because of supernatural reasons.


Anyway, these ideas don't necessarily apply to Freeborn, but perhaps they could. Mention in your post whether you are referring to Freeborn werewolves or just in general. If you have any other ideas as to where the virus might come from, post 'em. I kinda favor 3, with 2 being second, and 1 last. I'm not looking for which one you think is most likely, because they're all pretty unlikely anyway, I just want your thoughts about them. You can choose a favorite if you wish, or you can just give your thoughts about all of them.

This thread does not exist for the purposes of making decisions for Freeborn or any other movie or book. I just wanna hear opinions.

Looks like it's time for a thread merge.

Lupin wrote:Looks like it's time for a thread merge.

done

LOL wow, now I look really stupid.

Excelsia wrote:LOL wow, now I look really stupid.

No, you're a person full of thoughts and ideas that would like to share them. Even if its a bit bizarre. *cough* Werewolf genitalia. *cough*




Here, have a chewed up duckie.

Figarou wrote:

Excelsia wrote:LOL wow, now I look really stupid.

No, you're a person full of thoughts and ideas that would like to share them. Even if its a bit bizarre. *cough* Werewolf genitalia. *cough*

Here, have a chewed up duckie.

Careful, you don't know were that's been!

Four pages and neither the moderators nor Silverclaw have corrected the spelling of the topic yet.

It should read "Origins" ...not "Orgins".

It looks like this is a topic about disembowelment, by the title..

sorry, didnt really notice

edit-fixed