THE PACK Message Boards

Shadow Wulf wrote:why dont the gestalt werewolf just start licking a persons face and wagging its tail, and try to tickle him/her. oooh i wish that could be me.
and then as the persons laughing people might think that the werewolf dont pose as a real threat , but they'll still take precautions.

Heh, now thats going to be out of place in an R-rated movie.

Why do werewolves gotta have a soft side?

Morkulv wrote:Why do werewolves gotta have a soft side?

Well, with out it, a werewolf will be an uncontrollable beast in gestalt form.

*begins to talk like the way some talk to dogs when they think they're cute* Because they're so sweet and furry and cute and fluffy and adorable!!!

Seriously, maybe a crush would melt the heart of a gestalt.

And why ARE we talking so silly to dogs? My theory is, that we're afraid they're gonna learn to talk.

Wolfess wrote:*begins to talk like the way some talk to dogs when they think they're cute* Because they're so sweet and furry and cute and fluffy and adorable!!!

Actually, it goes something like this..

ahem

Awwwww look at the puppy wuppy!! Does the puppy wuppy like me to rub the tummy wummy!!

Wolfess wrote:And why ARE we talking so silly to dogs? My theory is, that we're afraid they're gonna learn to talk.

Why do we talk so silly to children?

-- Vilkacis

Vilkacis wrote:

Wolfess wrote:And why ARE we talking so silly to dogs? My theory is, that we're afraid they're gonna learn to talk.

Why do we talk so silly to children?

-- Vilkacis

Because children talk silly to grown ups. Heh, why not join in on the fun.

kids say the darndest things!!!

Same reason. That's how politicians are created.

Wolfess wrote:And why ARE we talking so silly to dogs? My theory is, that we're afraid they're gonna learn to talk.

Well, we talk silly to kids, and most of them learn to talk just fine.

Morkulv wrote:Why do werewolves gotta have a soft side?

So the audience can better identify with the characters.

Lupin wrote:

Morkulv wrote:Why do werewolves gotta have a soft side?

So the audience can better identify with the characters.

Thats a good way of putting it.

............. I'm still in for the fluffy thing.

Shadow Wulf wrote:why dont the gestalt werewolf just start licking a persons face and wagging its tail, and try to tickle him/her. oooh i wish that could be me.

I certainly like the imagery, but I think only a real goofball of a werewolf (like most of us come to think about it) would ever behave that much like a canine. This is going back on that "goofing off" thing I was talking about earlier -- a werewolf wouldn't instinctively slobber over a fellow human being, but I'm sure every pack has at least one member with that kind of sense of humor.

Morkulv wrote:Why do werewolves gotta have a soft side?

Because without a soft side, they become copies of almost every other half-arse werewolf film that's ever been made (the ones we do a lot of griping about in the Werewolf Films forum).

Figarou wrote:Awwwww look at the puppy wuppy!! Does the puppy wuppy like me to rub the tummy wummy!!

And the ever popular:

"I wanna' hug em! An' squeeze em! An' love em ta' itty bitty pieces!"

Figarou wrote:

Wolfess wrote:*begins to talk like the way some talk to dogs when they think they're cute* Because they're so sweet and furry and cute and fluffy and adorable!!!

Actually, it goes something like this..

ahem

Awwwww look at the puppy wuppy!! Does the puppy wuppy like me to rub the tummy wummy!!

You've never seen me baby my cat Opie. Hes the cutest smutest little kitty witty Opie smuchems dopie bopie ba da be Opie da be be boo boo kitty kitty kity! So Opie dopie loopy la la muchie munchie smoochie lunch da ba kitty boy!

outwarddoodles wrote:

Figarou wrote:

Wolfess wrote:*begins to talk like the way some talk to dogs when they think they're cute* Because they're so sweet and furry and cute and fluffy and adorable!!!

Actually, it goes something like this..

ahem

Awwwww look at the puppy wuppy!! Does the puppy wuppy like me to rub the tummy wummy!!

You've never seen me baby my cat Opie. Hes the cutest smutest little kitty witty Opie smuchems dopie bopie ba da be Opie da be be boo boo kitty kitty kity! So Opie dopie loopy la la muchie munchie smoochie lunch da ba kitty boy!

Might as well wipe that slobber on your face after saying all that.

Just kidding!!

Hmmm, gestalt WWs playing tag seems like a promising idea....

Well, thanks to the typical violent bloodthirsty image of werewolves, it wouldn't take much to soften up the werewolf's image. Heck, when you think about it, he could even look softer in combat just by not ripping his opponent to shreds.

That'd be one instance in which I think a werewolf could demonstrate a more humane side: by immobilizing a human opponent instead of killing him: dangle him upside down or sit on his stomach until he says uncle, or if the aim was also to make the human look stupid, by putting the hand of his longer arm on the human's head and letting them swing at the air in between them. The implication would be simple enough: the werewolf is powerful, but not malicious.

I agree with this basic idea. We are already taking viewers on a big leap by portraying werewolves as something other than automaticly evil. The average movie-goer hasn't seen a significant portrayal of a good werewolf since "Teen Wolf" and because that was a comedy, it doesn't entirely count, since you expect ridiculous or backwards concepts in comedies.

Showing mercy in a fight is about as far as the "softer side" should go in either wolf form or gestalt form. I don't want to see the werewolf playing with random kids (other than its own kids, if they are old enough to be let in on the secret or young enough to forget) or dogs (since werewolf/dog play might get interpreted by some viewers as a romantic interest, and we want to avoid any hint of bestiality). Of course, good werewolves should be decent people in human form. I think that good actions in human form would carry that aspect of the narrative pretty well.

Mmm.... early on in a film I would mostly agree with that there should be a reliance on mercy. Assuming such a film is of significant length though (at least 1.5 hours,) then you probably could show something other then mercy to portrey a werewolfs softer side.

After all, by the time the audience is near the end of the film, they'll be somewhat more acceptable of the idea that a werewolf is a living, thinking, feeling thing.

WolvenOne wrote:After all, by the time the audience is near the end of the film, they'll be somewhat more acceptable of the idea that a werewolf is a living, thinking, feeling thing.

I agree that Freeborn shouldn't immediately portray werewolves as being snuggable by the right people, although once the audience has enough time to understand that werewolves are not savage killers, you can branch off into more risky behavior.

The use of mercy would definitely be a great way to introduce werewolves as human beings; since the audience may not have grasped this just yet, it may make for a particularly tense (or at least memorable) when they suspect a scene is building up to the systematic rubbing out of a supporting character. The moment where the werewolf puts him in a headlock instead of tearing his throat out would be the moment that drops the bombshell that werewolves are not monsters.

Then once you've cleared that obstacle, like say, 45 minutes into the film, a werewolf snuggling with their human counterpart wouldn't be treated as an instant in which werewolves are described as being human, because by that time, the audience will have come to understand such. Once given enough time to grasp the concept, a werewolf licking somebody's face, playing with a puppy or getting bonked with the safehouse marker would be treated as a sight gag.

So apart from the truly rediculous ideas, I like most of them. It's just that not all of them are good instances with which to open with. Mercy first, then go nuts.

Humor isn't the only way to show the soft side.

Showing werewolves in Gestalt form as elegant rather than ugly would go a long way. (Insert my perennial Goldenwolf artwork reference.) If someone can look at the creature and see it as graceful, beautiful, or even sexy, it would be a culture shock to the viewer who is accustomed to the clunky, oversized gorilla suit. (That's one more reason beyond laws of physics why I keep arguing against the bulky, oversized Gestalt form. It's too much like the bad crap, even if it's done right.)

Someone seeing a werewolf in Gestalt form should see at once the nobility of the wolf, the intimidation of the preconceived image of werewolves, and the beauty of the human form in good health. The reaction should be a mixture of emotions. It's more terrifying than just knowing it's a monster. Done right, I think Freeborn could be scarier than the horror movies from which it's breaking away.

Scott Gardener wrote:Humor isn't the only way to show the soft side.

Showing werewolves in Gestalt form as elegant rather than ugly would go a long way. (Insert my perennial Goldenwolf artwork reference.) If someone can look at the creature and see it as graceful, beautiful, or even sexy, it would be a culture shock to the viewer who is accustomed to the clunky, oversized gorilla suit. (That's one more reason beyond laws of physics why I keep arguing against the bulky, oversized Gestalt form. It's too much like the bad crap, even if it's done right.)

Someone seeing a werewolf in Gestalt form should see at once the nobility of the wolf, the intimidation of the preconceived image of werewolves, and the beauty of the human form in good health. The reaction should be a mixture of emotions. It's more terrifying than just knowing it's a monster. Done right, I think Freeborn could be scarier than the horror movies from which it's breaking away.

Hmm... Well, yeah, I would like to see a werewolf depicted as being elegant or noble, but I would add that they shouldn't always look like that. We already know, for example, that there are werewolves in the Freeborn script that choose to be evil. I don't know what they do, but I know they shouldn't do it elegantly.

The best way to rephrase that, I think, would be that it would be better to try to make a werewolf seem appealing in the way it moves as opposed to the way it looks, and the reverse also applies for hostile werewolves -- just use one base werewolf and let the animation bring out it's character.

I was going to look through Goldenwolf's website to see if I could find one picture of a werewolf in a passive state and another of the same werewolf in an aggressive state to demonstrate, but unfortunately, that was when my connection decided to slow down to a mother-fuggenwanken crawl again (it will likely take five minutes the minimum to post this after I hit "Submit").

Figarou wrote:

Morkulv wrote:Why do werewolves gotta have a soft side?

Well, with out it, a werewolf will be an uncontrollable beast in gestalt form.

true, plus I think a werewolf would most likely try to save people instead of the duckie thing, maybe lick someone in the face

Searif Bogard wrote:true, plus I think a werewolf would most likely try to save people instead of the duckie thing, maybe lick someone in the face

Wow. Lots of suggestions for face-licking all of a sudden.

This is another one of those statements where I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. On one hand, werewolves are half-human and therefore subject to human emotions, the one I'm going to stress in this case being guilt. Nobody wants to watch someone get hurt and then spend the rest of their life wondering if they could have made a difference, so yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see a werewolf sticking out his neck for someone if within his capabilities.

On the other hand, werewolves are naturally feared, and by exposing themselves to one human, they not only put themselves at risk, but the entire pack as well.

So I think that if someone was in danger, a typical werewolf would want to save someone, but unless they were absolutely certain they could do it Batman style (IE: without being seen), most wouldn't have the heart and/or the courage to do so.

One last scenario I thought of: In a werewolf pack, it would be safe enough to make two presumptions. 1) Everyone in the pack can recognize everyone by both their human form and their gestalt forms, and 2) Though they won't admit it, pack ranks do develop based on respect and commitment. In the Freeborn pack, for example, Jack or Ray would be good candidates for the unofficial alpha since they are respectable (I think), commited to the pack (I think), and in positions of employment which benefit the pack (that one I'm sure about). They wouldn't necessarily state outright that they are the pack leaders, but being valuable additions to the pack, the others would at the very least be more hesitant to say anything particularly damaging to them than, say, the unofficial omega, who in this case would most likely be either a werewolf that is new to shapeshifting and the werewolf lifestyle, lacks confidence and still needs the rest of the pack for support, or a werewolf that almost royally screwed up not too long ago and feels guilty because of it (a werewolf that couldn't admit when they screwed up royally either has yet to or, when called on it by the rest of the pack, would become a loner).

What I'm getting at is that, since they both recognize each other as humans and werewolves, if there ever arose a time where a confident and knowledgable alpha was in human form and a hesitant and inexperienced omega was in gestalt form, the relationship would be a sort of "George and Lenny" deal (IE: the little one looks after and/or bosses around the big one). It wouldn't be quite as one-sided a relationship as it was in Of Mice and Men, but in any scenario where they would need to stick together, a gestalt probably wouldn't feel ashamed to be following behind a human if they trusted them enough.

The key words in this case are respect, tolerance, and trust.

Figarou wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:why dont the gestalt werewolf just start licking a persons face and wagging its tail, and try to tickle him/her. oooh i wish that could be me.
and then as the persons laughing people might think that the werewolf dont pose as a real threat , but they'll still take precautions.

Heh, now thats going to be out of place in an R-rated movie.

Depends on what kind of licking and tickling...

WolvenOne wrote:Mmm.... early on in a film I would mostly agree with that there should be a reliance on mercy. Assuming such a film is of significant length though (at least 1.5 hours,) then you probably could show something other then mercy to portrey a werewolfs softer side.

After all, by the time the audience is near the end of the film, they'll be somewhat more acceptable of the idea that a werewolf is a living, thinking, feeling thing.

Human: Thanks, you saved me from that mugger, mister Wolf.

GestaltWolf: Yeah whatever. Stay out of alleys next time. (turns to leave)

Human: Aren't you gonna eat him now?

GestaltWolf: Wadda you, some kinda psycho?