Downloading illegal movies, movies etc. Your opinion?

[Morkulv]

[Scott Gardener]

Is it just me, or is it getting hot around here? Can we--both sides of the fence, I'm not singling anyone out--try to avoid letting this thread spiral downward?

[Aki]

In general, I think pirating is bad, as it can be damaging to the industry. Not to mention the way it can damage your computer, as pirated stuff may carry trojans and other viruses in easily. Though, I don't mind pirating that really isn't pirating anymore.

Like, Abandonware type stuff, or things like the HL2 leak. Valve considers that leak "illegal", which, I guess it is. But it's got like, nothing of what is in the retail version of HL2. Valve makes no money off it, and never planned to. So someone taking that leaked stuff now doesn't bother me. Or say a game that's old and it's developers or whatever have gone out of business, and thusly, won't receive the payment they'd get even if you bought it legit. An example of this would be the Fallout series before Bethesda bought up the right. Interplay/Black Isle is dead, and FO and FO2 weren't being produced no more, so pirating that would affect no one badly aside from whoever's selling their copy on E-bay or such.

But pirating something like Halo 2, Oblivion, a new movie, CD, etc. not so much since there's still people who benefit from your purchase, y'know? That's bad business. We can't go around screwing each other over like that, man. That's not how society should work, not how the economy should work.

And the worst piracy is against small indepedant types. I see too many companies and such who make such good games/movies/music, etc. go under because of financial issues. It's sad, really.

[Kaebora]

I'm done repeating myself though, and I won't reply here anymore unless someone has something usefull to add instead of repeating 'the evilness of stealing'. Every action is made with a reason. There is a thought and/or reasonable logic behind every action, even piracy. Think about that.

And you've ignored my own response to your "stickin' it to the man" reason for piracy, which explained in detail why the games cost so much. (Maybe because I make sense.) If you aren't fond of reading my long posts, here it is summed up...

Games cost more, because these days it takes more people to make it (over 150 people). The amount of company profit hasn't changed much since 1995. Ever had to manage the saleries of 150+ people, or examined the public records of a game company's finances? I have, and for even the most successful companies, profits aren't as much as you would think.

Piracy has caused millions of dollars in losses to big companies, and even hundreds of thousands in losses to smaller game companies. There have been a couple of buisnesses who's companies died because of these losses. That means people lose their jobs. You might be thinking that your little bit of piracy doesn't account for much, but multiply that by two thousand. That's 2,000 people that think the same as you are now. At $40 per copy for a small-time company game, that's $80,000 in losses. Congrats, you just got two workers laid off. If they are charging $60 later to make up for those losses, and the cycle repeats itself, they lose another $120,000. Another three people laid off.

[ravaged_warrior]

I think I can give one example for what Morkulv is talking about, but it's nothing large scale, that I know of.

Halo 2. Sequel to a very successful and well-loved game. Why it was so well loved I don't know. However, the second game had a few improvements over the original, such as better graphics, more guns, dual-wielding, ACTUALLY BEING ABLE TO STRAFE IN A TANK, DAMN IT, etc. However, the game was much smaller and probably didn't cost as much as what it was going to when it was supposed to be a 20 level game that took place entirely on Earth. However, Microsoft, knowing that even if the game sucked (which I'll admit, it didn't, but it was nothing special) it would make a ton of money, sold it for $60 just to earn extra money. I wonder if they'll make the new game $70...

However, as that's the only example I can think of where I knew for sure that gamers were getting screwed over for more money, so Morkulv's argument there doesn't hold a lot of water.

[MattSullivan]

Ravaged, how do you know they sold Halo 2 "just to earn the extra money" ? Just because they're microsoft and they're a "big faceless evil corporation"? Unless you actually worked on the game ( which, I guarantee you people with names and faces DID ) Then maybe you should consider there might have been other reasons the game didn't turn out as some had HOPED. Technical restrictions, economical, supplies, labor...A company strives to make back it's costs and in addition, make a profit. That's just the basics of BUSINESS. You make it sound as if there's a boardroom of big fat white guys in top hats wringing their hands greedily and rolling around on mountains of ill-gotten cash.

Gamers DO NOT GET SCREWED. They take a chance when they plop down money for a game. And I'm sure that some of the people who worked on HALO2 thought it was pretty nifty. No company that wants to make a profit releases a crappy game on purpose. Some games are better than others. Accept it and move on. Game makers don't OWE you anything. But I guarantee you they do their bast to make great games. They don;t always succeed.

There's no such thing as an EVIL corporation. But if you insist that any company that makes a profit is, then just don't buy their products. Try making your own game. You do the pre-vis, the design, the programming. YOU SEE IT THROUGH to fruition. Then we'll see how much people want to complain.

[ravaged_warrior]

Ravaged, how do you know they sold Halo 2 "just to earn the extra money" ?

Because it was the only Xbox game that I can think of that cost more than $50 and it was probably one of the biggest Xbox titles. There really wasn't anything in Halo 2 that would require an extra profit that I saw, which I could understand in newer systems like the Xbox 360. The additional $10 was most likely because they could easily get away with charging more for this game because almost every Xbox owner wanted it, and to be fair, another $10 wouldn't be that much more for them to pay for a game. However, when you take into account the amount of copies that Microsoft sold, that earns them a lot of money in addition to what they would have gotten already.

Okay, hold on here... I think my point might have been misinterpreted. I didn't say that Halo 2 was made just to earn extra money, I said that I think that the extra $10 on the price tag was put in place for the extra money (and being Halo, it would be a lot of it) that it would earn them.

Just because they're microsoft and they're a "big faceless evil corporation"?

Actually, I like Microsoft quite a bit. Case in point: I bought a Zune. A ZUNE for f ucks sake. I wish it had lasted more than five days, actually, because besides the easily busted screen it was very good. Much better than the iPod which everyone seems to love so much.

Then maybe you should consider there might have been other reasons the game didn't turn out as some had HOPED. Technical restrictions, economical, supplies, labor...

I've never been a Halo fan, so I can't really speak fairly for anyone in terms of the game turning out as some had hoped, but this is Halo. This was the big blockbuster of the Xbox, and yet Microsoft ran out of resources? I find that a little difficult to believe.

And I'm sure that some of the people who worked on HALO2 thought it was pretty nifty.

They probably did. Many gamers did. I was speaking out of personal opinion when I said that it was nothing special. However, getting into whether or not Halo is a good series is beyond the point of this thread. I didn't mean for it to get any focus at all, I only meant it as an aside.

No company that wants to make a profit releases a crappy game on purpose.

Not on purpose, but there are some that get lazy and spew out a** product after a** product. Ever heard of LJN?

There's no such thing as an EVIL corporation. But if you insist that any company that makes a profit is, then just don't buy their products. Try making your own game. You do the pre-vis, the design, the programming. YOU SEE IT THROUGH to fruition. Then we'll see how much people want to complain.

Are you still talking to me here? Because I already said that I don't agree with Morkulv.

[MattSullivan]

I don't know what LJN is. if it's short for something not everyone knows what that is. Use the real name.

[ravaged_warrior]

LJN is a toy company. They also made quite a few video games, many of which were tie-ins, and most of their games sucked (not even sure if ANY were good). Friday the 13th, Bart vs. The World, Spider-Man: Sinister 6, Back to the Future, Bill and Ted's Excellent Video Game Adventure, Punisher, Predator (I think they made this one...), Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Street Fighter: The Movie (a concept so mind-bogglingly stupid that it has no equal), etc. A lot of bad movie tie-ins from the '80s and '90s can be attributed to them. Just terrible, terrible stuff.

[Shadow Wulf]

Could the fact that Halo 2 was manufactured in Mexico instead of China be the reason why it cost $10 more?

[Draca]

There's no such thing as an EVIL corporation. But if you insist that any company that makes a profit is, then just don't buy their products. Try making your own game. You do the pre-vis, the design, the programming. YOU SEE IT THROUGH to fruition. Then we'll see how much people want to complain.

Amen, brutha.

[Kaebora]

It's funny though. When someone makes complete and total logical sense on a subject like this one, the opposing side pretends you didn't post. Happens all the time. I'm done here. Debating online is a fruitless effort since neither side ever gives in even an inch, dispite how unbreakable the facts are.