Too "Eccentric" for 'Casual' fans? ...a problem?

Set · Post by **Set** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:02 pm

Renorei wrote:But, I do think that we might could attempt to get more of the 'average werewolf fan' type people to join. I think that this might correct the problem. I don't know how we would go about this, but it is one step we could take to make the majority views of this forum more closely reflect the majority views of werewolf fans..

How do you know the people here aren't average werewolf fans? Short of running around half the world and asking everyone who's ever had even a passing interest in werewolves directly, I think it's a little foolish to assume that we are a minority.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:35 pm

Vuldari wrote:Why is it that, after being online for over 430 days ,(A year and two months) , only 444 of our registered members have posted at least a single message?

Something is keeping them away.

Vuldari wrote:When I say I wan't new members to "Stick Around", all I mean is to have another 100 or so members (Preferably More) post messages beyond just, "Hi...I'm WolvenDude", and maybe check back and show thier interest every couple months or so, throwing in their "Two cents" on a topic or two before moving on to thier other interests for a while.

This is fairly normal, really isn't anything to be concerned about. It happens all the time on the internet. In a large community on the internet, such as a forum or IRC channel, only about 10% of the community will actively participate. The other 90% are content with sitting and watching. Currently, I am sitting in an IRC channel with 47 people. In the past thirty minutes, exactly 5 people have said something. This is including myself, and the large flood I started spamming the ascii graphic of

. The other 42 people were at least there once some time in the past day, since we just switched servers and kicked them out of the old channel.

dnl · Post by **dnl** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:16 pm

Set wrote:
dnl wrote:I want some one to look this up "Anjing Ajak"

Quit being lazy. Do it yourself.

dnl wrote:here a quistion some what realted to werewolves..what is the name of the wolf god worshiped by the ancient Egyptain world.Also there god of war.

The wolf god would be Wepwawet, though according to this he was a jackal. The god, or goddess I should say, of war was the lioness headed Sekhmet. Keep in mind however that there are many deities in the Egyptian pantheon, many of which have similar attributes.

first of all I just wanted some one to look it up mybe they would find some intrest but call me lazy when all I ask is for some one to !@#$ google some thing when I spent a !@#$ hour looking thro a book not including the hours I've spent read thro diffent books on mythology...

well Wepwawat also perhapes better know in this modern day as Ophois is the correct answer. The name Wepwawet means "opener of the ways" thos he was all so looked at as a scout. He was worshipped at the city of Lykopolis (city of wolves) His aggressive nature made him a good choice for a war god. He later was seen as the sun of Anubis.

Anjing Ajak now some one looked up to problems that are my falt one I was refering to the storie. two its not a latin word. Anjing Ajak is a giant werewolf a evil one in the folklore of java.

k about furry there are a lot of furry who go to the con now and we have some intreste stuff on are chat site http://foxtalestimes.actifforum.com

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:37 pm

Do we have an image problem?

I think everything seems fine the way it is now. We dont come off as the coolest people around lol; but everyone here is pretty normal. Normal as in, not nuts

Do we care about how others see us?

I personally dont really care. People are going to judge us no matter what we may do. *shrugs*

Is there anything we can do about it without sacrificing our ideals?

Dont really think so. We shouldnt change ourselves just to be more appealing to others. Not that there is anything weird that we're doing. OK, some may find it a bit odd that we talk about wws, but oh well

They shouldnt be googling werewolves if they didnt want to find disussions about em.

Do we want to take the trouble to make our group more inviting to hesitant outsiders?

I think its all well and good to get more people coming here. We just shouldnt drasticaly change ourselves doing so. Not really even sure how we could to get more 'normal' peps here if we tried.

Vilkacis · Post by **Vilkacis** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:04 am

While I'm all for more Pack Members, the very nature of the subject of our conversations pretty much guarantees that only certain types of people will be interested enough to remain active beyond so many posts. The others probably won't stick around no matter how we act.

I like the idea of getting more members, but not unless they're interested in sharing their opinions about werewolves. A lot of people is great, but we do need some kind of focus.

The real question here is, I think, whether or not we are scaring away any of the long-term ones who are interested in discussing (or listening to) this kind of thing (and maybe that's what you had in mind in the first place).

Honestly, I don't know the answer to that question, We haven't had anyone (to my knowledge) kind enough to let us know, "Hey, I was going to stick around, but then I found out what total freaks you all are, so I decided to leave. Good bye!"

We do, on the other hand, have quite a few who stuck around.

I think if they really fit into the long-term "I am really interested in talking about werewolves" group, they're probably on the same boat as the rest of us.

Therians, otherkin, demon- and monster-enthusiasts, transformation aficionados, research buffs, writers and artists, the obsessed, all the rabid fans and, yes, even the furries...

Welcome to the Pack! That's us!

-- Vilkacis

garouda · Post by **garouda** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:58 am

Well, I will not claim to be the alpha and omega of net experience. But I do have some experience being around some fairly large forums scattered around the net.

Fairly consistently, I have observed as have others, that the bulk of posting on most forums, is done by a relative handful of members. Lots of others join, post a bit in varying degrees, and then slow down as they somewhat finish expressing most of what they are inclined to say.

Now and then, if a thread or post hits on a hot button topic for them, they may perhaps increase their posting until interest or real life intervene.

And speaking of life. A lot of folks drop in on sites to poke around a bit, post perhaps a few times and then move on.

Secondarily, some like to join, say hello and then mostly lurk.

Who knows who, that tends not to post a lot, is none the less reading new posts here on a regular basis ?

And finally, there are the folks who may lurk forever without ever joining. Lurkers have no commitment. Just their curiousity to indulge. Enjoying the give and take which takes place here, but quite happy to vicariously join in our fun without being committed to self expression.

"Hello Lurkers, come on in, it's fascinating and fun here ! No, really !"

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:26 pm

* Do we have an image problem?

* Do we care about how others see us?

We do care in that the original purpose of this site was to provide feedback for what has become Freeborn, and pretty much all of us want to see it brought to fruition.

One way we're helping this happen is by providing Brownrigg with a volume of independent feedback to show that he's not smoking crack when he says that werewolf fans are looking for tails, fur, real plots, and werewolves who aren't always the bad guy.

It's not really a self-esteem issue so much as an issue of to what extent people will agree with us on our consensus of lycanthropy.

Beyond our original purpose, we're kind of soul-searching on it, but we've talked about doing more of the same for other artists out there. To that extent, what others think of us really does matter.

Thankfully, we appear to be pretty well respected. To my knowledge, we had only one heated argument with any other artists, and it resolved with good feelings. We've also started popping up in the news, though so far only back stories.

eVo85 · Post by **eVo85** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:02 pm

I just have to say something about this.

Everyone wonders why the number of people on this forum is so small, and they wonder whether they're scaring prospective members away. Well, as a newbie here myself, I just need to lay out a few facts (from my point of view, of course; take them or leave them).

First, look at exactly what this forum is. It's a very niche oriented forum. You wonder where all the casual fans are. If you really think about it, though, do you really think "casual fans" are going to want to talk about it that much? Suppose you're a "casual fan". You're most likely not going to take the time to go out and seek out this forum to talk about something you have only limited casual interest in. You'll keep to yourself, say that you kind of like werewolves, that they're kind of cool, but not go around expressing your opinions in depth, which is what most forums are for, whether you like it or not. Most people don't like to join forums unless they know enough about the topic to actually contribute to a discussion without humiliating themselves (which, even if the forumites' intentions are not to intimidate, they do by default just because they know more about the topic than potential forumites). It's the nature of a forum. Most forums are built by and for hardcore fans. Personally, I'm not a hardcore fan; I'm casual at best. I just like to post my writings here because I conducted a lot of research on the werewolf topic here to get the "facts" just right, and I figured that people here would enjoy it. Likely, I will never post anything in the "Ultimate Werewolf" section, because I either don't have enough interest, or I just don't know enough about the topic to make an educated opinion. That's how most people feel about this forum, I'm sure. It's not about the furries or the therians (although that can be the case from time to time).

Second of all, you have to take into account that you actually have to FIND this place to post on it. I, for one, had a hell of a time finding this place. I wasn't looking for it in general, but while doing some initial research for my novel, I typed "werewolf" into Google, and of course I got a ton of hits. But you know how far into the search I had to get before I even found these boards? Something like page 15. Most people would stop at page 6 or lower, if they even bothered to look for a werewolf forum at all. In my opinion, finding 444 people to post on this forum isn't bad for such a niche topic.

Bottom line, uh...what was my point again?

Oh yeah. Don't be afraid to post what you want on here. I've seen the hardcore furries' posts, and although they're a little strange to me sometimes, they certainly don't scare me away. In fact, I've been interested in reading everyone's opinions just to see what everyone thinks. What I'm trying to say is that if someone is so scared to see a point of view outside their own, perhaps they wouldn't have a comfortable place on this forum to begin with.

And the bickering has to stop. No one is insulting anyone, and if you all stop feeding fuel into the fire, it'll die out. If you're wondering what's scaring all the casuals away, that's it; they see this bickering, and they become afraid that their opinions will just be shot down by the hardcores who are insistent upon their opinion being the right one, even if that's not the intention.

Just my two (or three or four) cents as a "casual" new guy. Figure you should get a perspective from a representative of the people you're talking about.

garouda · Post by **garouda** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:09 pm

This thread seems to have slowly evolved from a question of whether there is a problem, to an assumption that there 'is' a problem.

I think this has been a casual unconscious slide.

Is there really a problem here ?

I really do NOT think there is.

There ARE going to be folks visiting from a variety of interest levels. From intense interest to casual to the point of just passing through with nary a sign up or a post.

The topic will draw the greatest involvement naturally from those most interested. Those whose internal fears of the net are so great that they are afraid to post. Well, 'The Pack' website is NOT online therapy for the terminally timid.

Frankly, this site and the bulk of its posts are sufficiently mild, that folks intimidated by fear, must be intimidated by nearly all of life.

Whose problem is that ?

I think it is just plain not a problem.

Besides being involved in a variety of online forums. I have also been involved in a fair number of Real Life Clubs and Organizations with paid memberships and real meetings at real Brick and Mortar locations. Even in these organizations the bulk of the membership just does not get terribly involved.

At the furthest fringes are those who visit a meeting now and then and are never seen nor heard from again.

A little closer in are those who join, and receive the newsletter, but rarely if ever attend meetings.

Then there are those who sporadically or routinely attend meetings but who aside from their attendance, mainly operate as spectators.

A little more active are those who also engage in various organizational activities beyond just the monthly meetings. Field trips and such like.

At the next level are the members who are actually rather more engaged in the organization. These folks are more vocal and considerably more inclined to express and fight for their opinions.

And there is still one level more. These are the folks who are actually involved in the operation and promotion of the organization. The ones who diligently attend executive meetings, and all the more compact events that get the newsletter out, organize the outings and various annual events. These are the folks who are the backbone of the organization.

I would not be at all surprised if the ubiquitous 'bell shaped curve' would reasonably accurately align along the distribution of participation of members in and about most organizations.

I am dead certain it applies here.

The bulk of the discussion here, I observe, revolves pretty much around the most active and committed and in many respects most senior and persistant participants of this site.

This all looks normal.

I do think that Vuldari's original question is valid enough to have been asked. And who is the arbiter that would finally determine that all discussion is done and complete on a given subject ?

On the other hand. Many folks read, observe and digest the discussion here and are entitled to express opinions. By and large I see folks shying away from flaming one another. And folks are entitled to disagree to one another.

Unless there are overt personal attacks, we need to resist trying to READ TOO MUCH BETWEEN THE LINES. This happens far too much in the online world, and seldom accompishes much that is positive. We are friends here and yes, we will from time to time misunderstand one another. The fact that some of us may hold some strong opinions or feelings on certain topics of discussion, need NOT come between us.

Sincerely
Garouda.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:04 am

Thank you very, very much to everyone who has offered thier time and effort to share thier carefully considered and honest opinons and answers to all of my questions.

...especially you eVo85... for sharing your outsiders perspective on this matter. That was a very refresthing and satisfying bit of insight.

That is really all I'm asking for here...

...for someone to take my questions and concerns Seriously...

...agree or disagree...explanation and elaboration is the most helpful, and most of you have been providing that. Thank You.

Figarou...I think you are really taking this way too personally.

Regardless of how it may appear, I am not out to get you, nor am I trying to drag you down.

...I'm just, very, very frustrated that you don't seem to want to take me seriously. You have posted many messages within this thread, but the answers you provided to my questions have been far less than helpful. Most of them have appeared to be attemts to be the "Final Word" ...Conversation ending statements.

Is it any wonder why that would frustrate me? I don't feel that the descussion has satisfactoraly concluded yet. I would like to hear what others have to say on the matter.

I posed a serious question that I was hoping to get serious answers to.

If you may recall, the point where you and I began to clash in this thread was when you chimed into the comversation with nothing more to say than that I was wrong... and then started going on about yourself and how "Well adjusted" and "unobsessed" you are...

...drawing all attention upon you...

...And then you get all pissed when I start paying attention to you and what you said, as it seemed you wanted me to.

Prior to that, you posted no messages of any consequence to the fullfillment of this topics purpose, and after that point, you still didn't untill I practically BEAT some answers and opinions out of you, (which was only fair, considering you seemed so insistant upon being a part of this conversation). And then, all you gave me were one sentence answers, and general, unenlightening ones at that. ...no elaboraton or explanation at all.

...and now you have deleted every post you made in this thread, erasing your mark upon this whole ordeal I see...

At first, that feels like an extreme move...but in the long run, with our pointless, irrelevant bickering out of the picture, this conversation can finally get back on track again.

Thank you Figarou.

You are welcome to invite yourself back into the conversation if you so choose, to share any topic-relevant ideas and perspective you may have. As the "Pack Representative", your FULL and Honest opinion would be most valuable to this conversation. ...with appropriate elaborative explanation please...

All opinions from all pesrpectives are very welcome in this conversation...

...whether you agree with my concerns and would like to help me "Brainstrorm" ways to polish up our groups image...

...or have reassuring facts that suggest that we are not as unappealing or troubled as I thought, and might put my concerns to rest completely.

The ever-popular "Other" is allways good too.

Please...if you have something to say...SHARE.

_______________________________________________________

[Note:] The title of this thread I think is too distracting, and throwing people off. It is far too easy to make jokes about. I think I will try to devise a better title.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:18 am

I rather get a better understanding of whats going on before I decide to post in this thread. I'm not saying I'm going to avoid it. I just need to plan my thoughts and try to say what I need to say in a clear fashion.

Thing is, I'm not good with words. I never had a college education. I went from high school straight to the Army. Then from there, I became a truck driver.

I'm always using Google, wikipedia, and the dictionary to get a better understanding of what a word means. Please bear with me if I say something that may get you mad. Just correct me if I happen to use the wrong words.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:43 am

By all means, take your time...

...if you can't think of anything significant to say yet, there is no need to say anything untill you do...if you even want to, that is.

The topic is hot at the moment, and those who have ideas have been sharing them. ...when those ideas run out, the topic will grow cold and be forgotten again...

Months from now, if I feel there is still an issue left to discuss, I may ressurect the thread again, to invite others to share any new ideas they may have had since now. ...if you don't think of anything to say untill mid-july, and then only to give a one paragraph explanation of why your opinion has not changed, and why you are confident that we don't have any public image problems at all, that would be cool.

...as long as I know that you at least took the "theoretical" issue into serious consideration, I would be most pleased.

...if only for the sake of our groups credability as a useful "Creative Resource"...which is the purpose this group was originally founded for.

garouda · Post by **garouda** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:47 am

Since it has been brought up in THIS thread. How does one delete a post ? Is there some button that I have missed ?

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:27 pm

garouda wrote:Since it has been brought up in THIS thread. How does one delete a post ? Is there some button that I have missed ?

Normal users can only delete thier own posts if no one has posted any messages after thiers.

However, if the message is no longer the last in the thread, you will no longer have that option.

Only people like Figarou, with with extra access to the forums functions can delete posts and threads later on.

Go ahead...post a message, and then immediately look at the upper right corner of your message. You should see THIS next to the "Quote" and "Edit" buttons.

* (

) *

That is the "DELETE THIS POST" button.

FYI for everyone who posts "oops" messages from now on. Instead of doubling the mistake by following it with an appology message...just click the button. ...just like that, your oops is no more... but only if you delete it right away.

garouda · Post by **garouda** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:25 pm

Thank You Vuldari ! :idea2:

Now I know

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:20 pm

So is Figarou and Velkacis is getting along now?

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:28 pm

Correction: Figarou and Vuldari

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:31 pm

Ahh so it was them that were having a rumble, I thought Figarou and Velkacis were argueing aswell.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:24 am

Shadow Wulf wrote:Ahh so it was them that were having a rumble, I thought Figarou and Velkacis were argueing aswell.

I wouldn't call it a rumble. Just a misunderstanding in communications.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:52 pm

Uh huh, yeah ok. What ever you say.

Cheer up Fig, atleast its over although I must say that it showed a whole new side of you we never seen before.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:48 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:Uh huh, yeah ok. What ever you say.

Cheer up Fig, atleast its over although I must say that it showed a whole new side of you we never seen before.

Lets say your family wanted you to cancel your plans on going to a convention so you can go to a funeral instead. Would you do it? I told them no. They got angry. Hey...I wasn't about lose time from work and buy a plane ticket to get to the funeral. You can see why I was a bit upset and confused at the same time. I couldn't think straight.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:53 pm

Oh.

I didint know that. Was it a hard decision to make?

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:05 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote: Was it a hard decision to make?

Nope.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:27 pm

Figarou wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote: Was it a hard decision to make?
Nope.

If its somebody you didnt know then you it shouldnt have been hard.

Kirk Hammett · Post by **Kirk Hammett** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:24 pm

I still really enjoy those oldschool werewolf films! The wolf's looks do disappoint me from time to time.

A horror fan would probably care more if it were scary. I hate horror films that are just so lame I don't get anything from it. And I love scary werewolf films. But as a werewolf fanatic, I would also like to see werewolf comedies and dramas and that. Something different. I love shape-shifting, it doesn't have to be primarily horror does it now.

And awww the tails...I want a tail!

I had one in my past life!